[Report - LeBrun] Canucks will try to re-sign Andrei Kuzmenko as trade interest grows

[lmm]

On 1/11/2023 at 7:07 PM, aGENT said:

Can't lose on this really. Either we extend a promising player who fits well with Petey, or we get a haul of assets for a solid top 6 player with almost no cap hit to contenders.

 

Win, win.

 

I'm still more interested to see how they solve the Miller/Horvat/Garland/Boeser/Myers situations.

well w could always hold through the deadline then lose him to FA

that might not count as a win

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, lmm said:

well w could always hold through the deadline then lose him to FA

that might not count as a win

I don't count that as a viable alternative. He either extends, or we get pieces. 

[lmm]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I don't count that as a viable alternative. He either extends, or we get pieces. 

are you new here?

you're not new here

[aGENT]

31 minutes ago, coryberg said:

Even with a league min contract replacing him, we actually lose a minimum of $83k in cap by buying him out. It only gets worse the more expensive his replacement is. We'd be better off waiving him. Or retaining $1-2m, or just riding it out until the TDL, or literally ANYTHING else 

 

It's mind boggling that people are still posting this as a supposed "reasonable" proposed plan. Seriously how does anyone think that 1- it's a good idea, or that 2- any management would be dense enough to do it?

[coryberg]

25 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

And the alternative is to keep playing a horrible D man at the expense of developing younger better defensemen?

Your extreme hate has blinded you. Myers is most certainly not worth his 6 million dollar contract but he is closer to that value than $333,000

[Mike Vanderhoek]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I don't count that as a viable alternative. He either extends, or we get pieces. 

with his production and caphit he can help pretty well any contender wanting a boost on the wing without screwing with their cap. I would think a 1st rounder for his services is attainable if the team decides to trade him.

 

 

 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

with his production and caphit he can help pretty well any contender wanting a boost on the wing without screwing with their cap. I would think a 1st rounder for his services is attainable if the team decides to trade him.

At least. I think he's worth a solid (not an A+ guy like Wright obviously) prospect and a 1st.

 

He's a guy I'd move to BOS for Lysell and their 1st for example. That's crap return for Bo, but acceptable for Kuz.

[MeanSeanBean]

Love this kid, but signing him is a massive mistake.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Love this kid, but signing him is a massive mistake.

If the rumoured $5-something for 2 year bridge is available...I don't think it's a massive mistake at all. Might even help us get Petey inked this summer and we can still move him in two years for younger assets. And probably for a bigger return as he'll have a solid track record at that point.

Edited January 26, 2023 by aGENT

[Provost]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

Doesn’t matter if they can get a defender making less than 800k in a deal for Bo.

 

You have the same cap hit you had this season for Myers and a roster spot for a young defender. The penalty the year after is irrelevant.

 

They won’t be going into next season with Myers if they can’t trade him I can tell you that.

It doesn’t make even the slightest sense to buy him out.  You can bury him in the minors for more cap savings than buying him out and you don’t get the penalty the year after.  You also don’t save real much in real dollars as the bonus is paid regardless.

 

The answer for Myers if you just don’t want him on the roster is to trade him after the bonus is paid to a team that doesn’t care about the cap hit as they aren’t at the ceiling.  $1 million in real dollars is a good deal for Myers, who cares if he is playing on your 3rd pairing.  If his 10 team NTC gets in the way just waive him.

 

 

[hammertime]

15 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Could be... The last 2 GMs failed... 

What are we missing to take the next jump? 

 

I can think at least 2 top 4 Ds to upgrade over OEL and Myers. 

Will the holes left by Horvat and Boeser be too big to fill internally? 

 

 

The path is clear. No body out there is going to trade us a 6'2 210 nasty shut down top 4 RHD we are going to have to draft that player. Carlo ain't it one more bonk on the noodle and he will be retired. 

 

We got young skill guys in Pete, Lekkerimaki, Hoglander. 

 

What we need is prime Ferland. I'd be taking a look at Cuylle in NYR or Jeannot on the Preds if he makes it to UFA. Guys of this Ilk who can play top 6 and bring an element of intimidation. 

 

 

[arsenalian]

23 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I don't count that as a viable alternative. He either extends, or we get pieces. 

So long as he doesn’t get injured prior to TDL (knock on wood). That’s typical Canucks luck, when not moving quick on these things

[MeanSeanBean]

13 minutes ago, aGENT said:

If the rumoured $5-something for 2 year bridge is available...I don't think it's a massive mistake at all. Might even help us get Petey inked this summer and we can still move him in two years for younger assets. And probably for a bigger return as he'll have a solid track record at that point.

I disagree. Even 2 years diminishes his value. Every measurable statistic in this guy predicts he'll regress in points going forward. I fully expect him to keep this pace up this year, I don't think he can continue to do it going forward.

 

The ONLY position of strength (if you want to call it that) the Canucks have is at wing. We lack center depth, we lack defense, we have minimal prospect (and the NHL project able ones we do have are wingers), we lack cap space, and we lack the overall talent to be a good team. What does Kuzmenko provide this team that fixes any of these issues?

 

We have him in the team this year, which is 100% going to be his most valuable season in comparison to his cap hit, and what could end up being his best season overall. The team still stinks, we're bottom of the league with him, and we would be bottom of the league without him. I don't see how having him signed to a bigger contract does this team any good in the 2 year you're talking about.

 

Wingers are a proven diminished asset in the NHL right now. Even if Kuzmenko keeps up this pace for 2 more years I see no world where he would have a higher trade value then what he has right now at such a low cap hit. 

 

What is best case scenario with signing Kuzmenko short term. He absolutely dominates while we are re-tooling and then is looking for his long term big money deal at 29 when we are trying to compete. That's sounds a little to familiar to me.

 

Trading him, in my eyes, is the only way to maximize his value. I fully expect him to be resigned, and I think it would be a massive mistake. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Shayster007

[DeNiro]

12 minutes ago, Provost said:

It doesn’t make even the slightest sense to buy him out.  You can bury him in the minors for more cap savings than buying him out and you don’t get the penalty the year after.  You also don’t save real much in real dollars as the bonus is paid regardless.

 

The answer for Myers if you just don’t want him on the roster is to trade him after the bonus is paid to a team that doesn’t care about the cap hit as they aren’t at the ceiling.  $1 million in real dollars is a good deal for Myers, who cares if he is playing on your 3rd pairing.  If his 10 team NTC gets in the way just waive him.

 

 

You’ll have to pay a premium to dump him as the cap is barely rising and teams will be looking to take advantage. We can’t afford to pay 2nd round picks for cap dumps again. Ain’t happening.

 

Sure you could waive him, but I feel like the team has too much respect for him to bury him in the minors. That’s a bad look. You buy him out so he can sign on with another team. That’s the right way to do it.

 

The penalty the following season is like 300k it doesn’t matter. That’s not keeping you from signing anyone.

[Alflives]

17 minutes ago, Provost said:

It doesn’t make even the slightest sense to buy him out.  You can bury him in the minors for more cap savings than buying him out and you don’t get the penalty the year after.  You also don’t save real much in real dollars as the bonus is paid regardless.

 

The answer for Myers if you just don’t want him on the roster is to trade him after the bonus is paid to a team that doesn’t care about the cap hit as they aren’t at the ceiling.  $1 million in real dollars is a good deal for Myers, who cares if he is playing on your 3rd pairing.  If his 10 team NTC gets in the way just waive him.

 

 

Would be great to do a full dumperoo of Chaos Giraffe this summer.  I don’t see us being able to get rid of him and all of his contract (without sugar) will be at the 2024 TDL.  

[Provost]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

You’ll have to pay a premium to dump him as the cap is barely rising and teams will be looking to take advantage. We can’t afford to pay 2nd round picks for cap dumps again. Ain’t happening.

 

Sure you could waive him, but I feel like the team has too much respect for him to bury him in the minors. That’s a bad look. You buy him out so he can sign on with another team. That’s the right way to do it.

 

The penalty the following season is like 300k it doesn’t matter. That’s not keeping you from signing anyone.

While there aren’t teams struggling to get the the cap floor, there are absolutely teams who have an internal budget of real dollars.  They aren’t in the game of taking on cap hit because there are real dollars coming with that which they can’t afford.

 

Just look at even this year, there are teams not at the ceiling even though they could get assets for taking on cap.  They just don’t want to spend the money.

 

Myers costs almost nothing in real dollars once his bonus is paid.

 

We save half a million more the coming season burying him vs. Buying him out.  We need that cap space pretty badly.  I don’t know if you have seen how this organization values people… but they aren’t going to be worried about a “bad look” by waiving him.  Better players than him have been waived and it doesn’t reflect badly on the team, it reflects badly on a player no one is willing to pick up for free.

[Ted Lasso]

17 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

I disagree. Even 2 years diminishes his value. Every measurable statistic in this guy predicts he'll regress in points going forward. I fully expect him to keep this pace up this year, I don't think he can continue to do it going forward.

 

The ONLY position of strength (if you want to call it that) the Canucks have is at wing. We lack center depth, we lack defense, we have minimal prospect (and the NHL project able ones we do have are wingers), we lack cap space, and we lack the overall talent to be a good team. What does Kuzmenko provide this team that fixes any of these issues?

 

We have him in the team this year, which is 100% going to be his most valuable season in comparison to his cap hit, and what could end up being his best season overall. The team still stinks, we're bottom of the league with him, and we would be bottom of the league without him. I don't see how having him signed to a bigger contract does this team any good in the 2 year you're talking about.

 

Wingers are a proven diminished asset in the NHL right now. Even if Kuzmenko keeps up this pace for 2 more years I see no world where he would have a higher trade value then what he has right now at such a low cap hit. 

 

What is best case scenario with signing Kuzmenko short term. He absolutely dominates while we are re-tooling and then is looking for his long term big money deal at 29 when we are trying to compete. That's sounds a little to familiar to me.

 

Trading him, in my eyes, is the only way to maximize his value. I fully expect him to be resigned, and I think it would be a massive mistake. 

he gives us consistent scoring from the wing, while getting the the best of Petey. Also dimples for miles, great interviews, shootout wizardry. 
 

 

 

[DeNiro]

9 minutes ago, Provost said:

While there aren’t teams struggling to get the the cap floor, there are absolutely teams who have an internal budget of real dollars.  They aren’t in the game of taking on cap hit because there are real dollars coming with that which they can’t afford.

 

Just look at even this year, there are teams not at the ceiling even though they could get assets for taking on cap.  They just don’t want to spend the money.

 

Myers costs almost nothing in real dollars once his bonus is paid.

 

We save half a million more the coming season burying him vs. Buying him out.  We need that cap space pretty badly.  I don’t know if you have seen how this organization values people… but they aren’t going to be worried about a “bad look” by waiving him.  Better players than him have been waived and it doesn’t reflect badly on the team, it reflects badly on a player no one is willing to pick up for free.

Teams still ask for a premium. They know we’re desperate. Why would they go out to their way to do us a favour?

So yes it will cost us a pick we can’t afford to trade.

[MeanSeanBean]

10 minutes ago, Kenny Powers said:

he gives us consistent scoring from the wing, while getting the the best of Petey. Also dimples for miles, great interviews, shootout wizardry. 
 

 

 

Signing him is the easy thing to do. I'd much rather this franchise starts making the hard decisions that can actually turn this club around.

[Provost]

6 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Teams still ask for a premium. They know we’re desperate. Why would they go out to their way to do us a favour?

So yes it will cost us a pick we can’t afford to trade.

Then you waive him like I said… that is much better deal for our team than buying him out.