Mando27 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 It's honestly depressing seeing so many people get caught up in this culture war created by the 1%. They are eating this up while everyone else suffers for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Provost Posted February 13, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 13, 2023 52 minutes ago, Master Mind said: He said he respects everyone. I'm not saying he supports the community. I'm saying his actions don't necessarily mean that he hates the community and that they shouldn't have equal rights. Going to need to you to provide some proof of me being a liar if you expect to be taken seriously. Oh wait, you can't. Yet another poor assumption. The theme wasn't "Everyone needs to have gay sex night" It was "Hockey is for Everyone". He blatantly didn't agree with that message so chose not to participate. The theme was equal rights, not even in a big civil movement sense... just that hockey is a game that they should be included in. His answer in both words and deeds was "Hockey isn't for everyone" You are just ignoring the actual thing he was choosing to not support, and making some false dichotomy. If you think telling someone your beliefs don't jive with queer people being being able to even be included in your sport doesn't equal hate unless he actually says he hates them... then you are either lying or a moron. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Mando27 said: It's honestly depressing seeing so many people get caught up in this culture war created by the 1%. They are eating this up while everyone else suffers for it. It looks bad from a PV POV since it wasn't that long ago about the alleged sex assault scandal the Black Hawks (ie., where many former & current Black Hawk players used the Sgt Schultz (Hogan's Heroes) defense of "I saw nothing..."). A shame that organization didn't support "Joe Doe" back then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: It looks bad from a PV POV since it wasn't that long ago about the alleged sex assault scandal the Black Hawks (ie., where many former & current Black Hawk players used the Sgt Schultz (Hogan's Heroes) defense of "I saw nothing..."). A shame that organization didn't support "Joe Doe" back then. They only dropped Bobby Hull as a team ambassador last season too. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 21 minutes ago, Dazzle said: "Typical of the left" - why did you have to introduce politics into this? because this is politics... that's why 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Provost said: The theme wasn't "Everyone needs to have gay sex night" It was "Hockey is for Everyone". He blatantly didn't agree with that message so chose not to participate. The theme was equal rights, not even in a big civil movement sense... just that hockey is a game that they should be included in. His answer in both words and deeds was "Hockey isn't for everyone" You are just ignoring the actual thing he was choosing to not support, and making some false dichotomy. If you think telling someone your beliefs don't jive with queer people being being able to even be included in your sport doesn't equal hate unless he actually says he hates them... then you are either lying or a moron. Except he didn't say that, but do go on with your lies and assumptions. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, Provost said: The theme wasn't "Everyone needs to have gay sex night" It was "Hockey is for Everyone". He blatantly didn't agree with that message so chose not to participate. The theme was equal rights, not even in a big civil movement sense... just that hockey is a game that they should be included in. His answer in both words and deeds was "Hockey isn't for everyone" You are just ignoring the actual thing he was choosing to not support, and making some false dichotomy. If you think telling someone your beliefs don't jive with queer people being being able to even be included in your sport doesn't equal hate unless he actually says he hates them... then you are either lying or a moron. nope... you're putting words into his mouth... he may very well support hockey for the LGBTQ...i could think of a million reasons why he didnt put the jersey on... like possibly offending his church or his family... maybe he hates how pride is being promoted but his community only gets bashed... maybe the left went too far.... so many make believe scenarios we can come up with... the man never said he refuses to play with the pride community... he simply does not want to promote it, which makes sense because he is a member of the orthodox church 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 26 minutes ago, Provost said: The theme wasn't "Everyone needs to have gay sex night" well it has been argued if that you don't want to date a trans male/female you are a bigot... pretty radical coming from a side that also argues that sexuality is not a choice but pre-determined... some people might find this offensive.. offensive enough to not want to support promoting pride movements 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Provost Posted February 13, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 13, 2023 18 minutes ago, Master Mind said: Except he didn't say that, but do go on with your lies and assumptions. Nonsense. “Hockey is for everyone” Refuses to participate in that message. Why did you refuse to participate? “My choice is to stay true to myself and my religion”. = I don’t agree that hockey is for everyone = If hockey isn’t for everyone then he doesn’t believe in equal rights, otherwise he would believe hockey is for everyone. It is cut and dried. The literal theme of the evening was about equal rights. You don’t get to remove the entire context and suggest it means something else with some sort of weasel arguments. 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 How can I put this so it doesn't offend anyone? Right, that's impossible... Look, it's simple. Hockey is for everyone should not mean wearing a Pride jersey. "Pride" is only part of "Everyone". Pride lives in a glass house and they shouldn't throw stones. What do I mean by that? They want everyone else to be "inclusive" yet they don't allow inclusivity in their own events. Just because I drive a 2010 F150 with a 5.4 liter engine doesn't mean I don't support Green energy. Just because I don't wear a "Pride" shirt doesn't mean I am against LGBT... Just because I don't wear a Leafs jersey doesn't mean I hate the Leafs... As long as we (human race) keeps putting people into siloed groups, the longer it will take for us to truly be one. Stop focusing on race, colour, creed, religion, etc...that's the problem! (and the media plays it up) (BTW - Hockey is NOT for everyone - not everyone can afford it). 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 I feel like he could've privately expressed these views, but since he had to make a public stance, he'll get a public response. I get the reasoning behind not wearing the jersey, but by putting his beliefs ahead of other people's, we can see where his priorities are. It doesn't matter what he says. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 11 minutes ago, Heretic said: How can I put this so it doesn't offend anyone? Right, that's impossible... Look, it's simple. Hockey is for everyone should not mean wearing a Pride jersey. "Pride" is only part of "Everyone". Pride lives in a glass house and they shouldn't throw stones. What do I mean by that? They want everyone else to be "inclusive" yet they don't allow inclusivity in their own events. Just because I drive a 2010 F150 with a 5.4 liter engine doesn't mean I don't support Green energy. Just because I don't wear a "Pride" shirt doesn't mean I am against LGBT... Just because I don't wear a Leafs jersey doesn't mean I hate the Leafs... As long as we (human race) keeps putting people into siloed groups, the longer it will take for us to truly be one. Stop focusing on race, colour, creed, religion, etc...that's the problem! (and the media plays it up) (BTW - Hockey is NOT for everyone - not everyone can afford it). What a ridiculous suggestion. In the past, these groups have been continually muted or discriminated against. Not focusing on race, etc etc, doesn't work. Society has tried it for the past 100 years or more. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Just now, Dazzle said: What a ridiculous suggestion. In the past, these groups have been continually muted or discriminated against. Not focusing on race, etc etc, doesn't work. Society has tried it for the past 100 years or more. How has "focusing" on them helped? It hasn't - it's still the same. Not focusing is NOT the same as discriminating. Come on man. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 @Dazzle What would you think of a middle aged white guy that doesn't support Pride? Now, What would you also think of a gay person that doesn't support Pride? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Just now, Heretic said: How has "focusing" on them helped? It hasn't - it's still the same. Not focusing is NOT the same as discriminating. Come on man. Are you serious? That's your response for why we shouldn't focus on race? I feel there's no point in trying to convince you because you're incapable of changing your mind. I actually hate race politics a lot because I find that the discussion points are overly simplistic. Yet there's something very wrong about having society not focus on race. Race is very much part of this, but it's not the only factor either. There's classism and other kinds of discrimination. We have to raise awareness so we don't exclude people. It's such a simple concept that you're not even able to comprehend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 18 minutes ago, Provost said: Nonsense. “Hockey is for everyone” Refuses to participate in that message. Why did you refuse to participate? “My choice is to stay true to myself and my religion”. = I don’t agree that hockey is for everyone = If hockey isn’t for everyone then he doesn’t believe in equal rights, otherwise he would believe hockey is for everyone. It is cut and dried. The literal theme of the evening was about equal rights. You don’t get to remove the entire context and suggest it means something else with some sort of weasel arguments. You continue to make assumptions on what his statement means. Stating your assumptions as matter of fact does not make them true, as much as you want them to be true so you can continue being outraged. Get back to me with some proof or sound arguments before calling my posts nonsense. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) This is funny to you? Wow. And you resort by "focusing" on putting me down by stating the I am "incapable of changing" my mind - which is far from the truth. Edited February 13, 2023 by Heretic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Heretic said: How has "focusing" on them helped? It hasn't - it's still the same. Not focusing is NOT the same as discriminating. Come on man. Are you smoking something? Civil rights for queer people has taken huge leaps and bounds in the past couple of decades. In my lifetime went from a place where they couldn’t visit terminally ill partners in the hospital because they weren’t recognized as family to full legal protection. When I started in the military, it was against the law to be queer and I saw friends and good soldiers kicked out when it was found out. Now all of those restrictions have been removed. Ian Mackellan had a great statement that when he started acting he wasn’t allowed to be known to be gay…. And he never thought in his lifetime that he would see an action figure of himself… an out gay man. Saying to a group of people that they don’t need to be invisible and hide, and that they can instead be proud of themselves and be full participants in society is massively powerful. I moved away from the Lower Mainland a few years ago after 30 years there and had forgotten how much of a bubble that was. There are still a lot of overt homophobics around (more than in this thread). 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 8 minutes ago, Provost said: Are you smoking something? Civil rights for queer people has taken huge leaps and bounds in the past couple of decades. In my lifetime went from a place where they couldn’t visit terminally ill partners in the hospital because they weren’t recognized as family to full legal protection. When I started in the military, it was against the law to be queer and I saw friends and good soldiers kicked out when it was found out. Now all of those restrictions have been removed. Ian Mackellan had a great statement that when he started acting he wasn’t allowed to be known to be gay…. And he never thought in his lifetime that he would see an action figure of himself… an out gay man. Saying to a group of people that they don’t need to be invisible and hide, and that they can instead be proud of themselves and be full participants in society is massively powerful. I moved away from the Lower Mainland a few years ago after 30 years there and had forgotten how much of a bubble that was. There are still a lot of overt homophobics around (more than in this thread). I don't smoke anything. I am not against anything you have said - civil rights are for everyone - fully agree. I moved away from the lower mainland 24 years ago, lived in Calgary for 13 years (12 years too long) before settling down in a small town back in BC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 34 minutes ago, Dazzle said: What a ridiculous suggestion. In the past, these groups have been continually muted or discriminated against. Not focusing on race, etc etc, doesn't work. Society has tried it for the past 100 years or more. they had their event... and the left chose to ruin it... 100% support is an ideology... the LGBTQ community is demanding that the straight community must date them, or a bigot.. not everyone has to support this group, this group is not without flaws... demanding support is the ridiculous thing... especially when they are not without flaws 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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