CanuckleHorse Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 What it boils down to is how you treat others it don’t matter of your beliefs if you’re a good person you won’t be douche canoe and treat others who are different than you badly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 minute ago, StrayDog said: The non-support is the issue. It reminds me of people saying they fully support black people having a nice house as long as it's not in their neighborhood "because it brings the property value down". To put it in a more hockey-themed way (since everyone wants all of this to be just about hockey), if I yell up and down about what a huge Canuck fan I am, but show up at a home game in a Marchand jersey, then what do you believe about me? You simply can't expect everyone to support something, and even the ones who do, you can't expect them to show support the way you want them to. At the end of the day, people are outraged that he didn't wear a piece of fabric in a night full of hollow gestures. Non issue as far as I'm concerned. Your first example seems to be more about people looking out for their own self interests rather than it being about race. Your second example I would think you have a good sense of humour. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 14 hours ago, Bad_BOI_pete said: if you shame people, for not participating... is that part of the education? If you shame people by not participating. Stepping away makes a bold statement...your beliefs are fine but they don't transfer to others' lives...that's where THEIR beliefs (and rights to live without discrimination) take over. No one's asking these players to be gay...they're supposed to skate with their team wearing a specific jersey. There are many examples of that...cancer fights jerseys, veterans, etc. By saying through your actions "I don't support this (because of my beliefs")...this isn't your individual platform...it's your workplace. You're basically saying "I don't support your right to live as you please" and "I don't support you as a human being who should be accepted like everyone else". That is a little shameful. Beliefs should have room to evolve over time as we learn and grow. These religions span across thousands of years...there were slaves, beheadings...all kinds of stuff that is no longer accepted or tolerated. We have to progress over time and not stay stuck using "beliefs" as a reason an excuse. Are these followers doing all the things required of them according to the guidelines that their belief system has set out? Does their religion allow for fighting? For swearing? Because maybe hockey isn't the right thing according to their belief system. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: So we agree on the why other teams cancelled their events. They did because they know they gave players who believe gays are of lesser value. These are sick beliefs. And cowardly acts. No. No one has said this. You should let this poor assumption go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 minute ago, -DLC- said: By saying through your actions "I don't support this (because of my beliefs")...this isn't your individual platform...it's your workplace. You're basically saying "I don't support your right to live as you please" and "I don't support you as a human being who should be accepted like everyone else". That is a little shameful. That is not what it says, it's what you assume it says. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayDog Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Master Mind said: You simply can't expect everyone to support something, and even the ones who do, you can't expect them to show support the way you want them to. At the end of the day, people are outraged that he didn't wear a piece of fabric in a night full of hollow gestures. Non issue as far as I'm concerned. Your first example seems to be more about people looking out for their own self interests rather than it being about race. Your second example I would think you have a good sense of humour. I sadly never expect that someone will support someone else's basic human rights. I don't expect Provorov to be going and counseling suicidal gay and trans teens, but putting on a "piece of cloth" as you put it is a big deal for those same kids, and would show that he values them. And it's honestly not a big ask, hollow gesture or not. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 12 minutes ago, StrayDog said: So then his silence and not wearing the pride jersey means he fully supports pride night? You don't need to say something to show what you believe. Actions speak louder than words. To be clear, I have never once said he should not be playing hockey. where is the law that says you must support wearing a rainbow jersey on "hockey is for everyone night? last i checked... ill check again... yup still doesn't exist... we have the right of freedom of discrimination, thought and religion.... and in canada and the united states, no person or organization can be forced to act against their conscience, religion or beliefs regarding same sex marriage. this is a written law. the law basically states if you are not breaking any other protected freedoms you are free to act however you like in regards to same sex marriage... pretty much Canada supports, or at least tolerates Provorov not participating... if someone wanted to they could loudly protest against gay marriage, picket even... Just like the LGBTQ communities protest infront of churches... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AriGold Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 On 1/28/2023 at 3:50 PM, Alflives said: The league clearly should have suspended Provorov for his anti gay actions. Now it’s spread. Other players are seemingly refusing to support gay people. Wait, what ?! I'm an active supporter of the 2SPLGBTQ+ but you should NEVER be forced to wear something you don't want to. You can't suspend people for their opinions. If he went out and said "I don't like gay people" then sure, fire away but he was respectful, noted his reasons and that's it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayDog Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bad_BOI_pete said: where is the law that says you must support wearing a rainbow jersey on "hockey is for everyone night? last i checked... ill check again... yup still doesn't exist... we have the right of freedom of discrimination, thought and religion.... and in canada and the united states, no person or organization can be forced to act against their conscience, religion or beliefs regarding same sex marriage. this is a written law. the law basically states if you are not breaking any other protected freedoms you are free to act however you like in regards to same sex marriage... pretty much Canada supports, or at least tolerates Provorov not participating... if someone wanted to they could loudly protest against gay marriage, picket even... Just like the LGBTQ communities protest infront of churches... Did I mention the law anywhere? Nope. I have said more than once that he has the total right to act as he did. I have only said that by not wearing a pride jersey he has shown that he does not believe that the LGBTQ+ community deserves the rights they have. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, StrayDog said: I sadly never expect that someone will support someone else's basic human rights. I don't expect Provorov to be going and counseling suicidal gay and trans teens, but putting on a "piece of cloth" as you put it is a big deal for those same kids, and would show that he values them. And it's honestly not a big ask, hollow gesture or not. If having 1 player out of ~700 not wear the jersey is considered a big deal, and wanting that player to wear it against their will is what would make that person happy, they should seek counseling as their priorities are clearly way out of line. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, Master Mind said: That is not what it says, it's what you assume it says. Because you say it's so (or not)? Nope...I know what it says. 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Just now, -DLC- said: Because you say it's so (or not)? Nope...I know what it says. You know what it says because you say it's so? Burden of proof is on you to prove that is what it says if you are going to accurately make that claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, Master Mind said: You simply can't expect everyone to support something, and even the ones who do, you can't expect them to show support the way you want them to. At the end of the day, people are outraged that he didn't wear a piece of fabric in a night full of hollow gestures. Non issue as far as I'm concerned. Your first example seems to be more about people looking out for their own self interests rather than it being about race. Your second example I would think you have a good sense of humour. He's outraged about putting on a piece of fabric...let's start there shall we? We're looking out for interests o basic human rights...it would be self interest if I was gay (I'm not)...seems more self interest on someone whose belief system is preventing them form doing something that is out of love and kindness. That's more an all about me deal then banding together to try to eliminate discrimination and hatred that some are subjected to. If your belief system prevents that, maybe question that end instead. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayDog Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Master Mind said: If having 1 player out of ~700 not wear the jersey is considered a big deal, and wanting that player to wear it against their will is what would make that person happy, they should seek counseling as their priorities are clearly way out of line. You're right, of course. I suppose I should be happy that it's only one open homophobe in the sport, and that there are those who will support his transphobia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Master Mind said: You know what it says because you say it's so? Burden of proof is on you to prove that is what it says if you are going to accurately make that claim. I'm not playing this game with you today...have to go to work. You're not even making sense here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, -DLC- said: He's outraged about putting on a piece of fabric...let's start there shall we? We're looking out for interests o basic human rights...it would be self interest if I was gay (I'm not)...seems more self interest on someone whose belief system is preventing them form doing something that is out of love and kindness. That's more an all about me deal then banding together to try to eliminate discrimination and hatred that some are subjected to. If your belief system prevents that, maybe question that end instead. Did Provorov say he was outraged at the concept of wearing the jersey? Provorov isn't preventing anyone from doing anything. He's not forcing his beliefs on anyone. Just now, -DLC- said: I'm not playing this game with you today...have to go to work. You're not even making sense here. Not a game, that's how debate and conversation in general works. But you can't provide proof because there's no evidence. Because it's an assumption. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, StrayDog said: You're right, of course. I suppose I should be happy that it's only one open homophobe in the sport, and that there are those who will support his transphobia. Lots of assumptions here. This post is a good example why teams cancel events. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 I will touch on the subject of how no one has protested against veteran night or adidas... that is true.. but also has no relevance to the topic... but if we must talk about it we can... regarding the Adidas sweaters... if we watch the game, we all are condoning it... so... should we boycott, and cancel the NHL until they change sponsors? surely the paying fans have influence if we all stop going to games and watching... on veteran night.... I would say that the vast majority of people respect veterans overwhelmingly so... it may be possible that their is no one that opposes honoring veterans of war... maybe some have views on war... but possibly not veterans of war... i will touch on the fact that many of you are also upset that religious people choose whatever they want to believe and they should be shunned for that.... many of you argue that Religious people should follow their religion to a 't'... thats impossible! no one has ever been free from sin, not you, not I, not anyone... shunning people for playing on sundays is basically you demanding them to be perfect, which is not possible... i would assume many of the religious players might attend a virtual mass or something similar and just accepted the fact that they will be judged for not being perfect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 15 minutes ago, StrayDog said: Did I mention the law anywhere? Nope. I have said more than once that he has the total right to act as he did. I have only said that by not wearing a pride jersey he has shown that he does not believe that the LGBTQ+ community deserves the rights they have. i will argue that you are creating facts from an assumption that may not be true... it would be best to take his literal words on how he views the community... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad_BOI_pete Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 9 minutes ago, Master Mind said: Lots of assumptions here. This post is a good example why teams cancel events. exactly... get rid of the radical left and their inflammatory opinions 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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