Rangers’ Pride Night goes sideways and Chicago Blackhawks refuse to wear pride jerseys

[Master Mind]

16 minutes ago, Angry Goose said:

And youre still begging the question why fan reaction is out of step.  Seems justified to me.

Some reaction justified, the outrage isn't.

 

Regardless, it had consequences that negatively impacted the cause people claim to support. Ignoring this is being willfully ignorant and shows a complete lack of accountability.

[Tinky-Winky]

On 1/28/2023 at 3:50 PM, Alflives said:

The league clearly should have suspended Provorov for his anti gay actions.  Now it’s spread.  Other players are seemingly refusing to support gay people.  

yup, only took 1 guy, now everyone gonna do it, rip gaypride events in the NHL, all philly and gary's fault for not punishing provorov, now its gonna be a domino effect

[John_Guest]

5 hours ago, Alflives said:

Hello Archie:

Hello.

 

I'm sick of the new woke NHL. Just play hockey.

[DS4quality]

19 minutes ago, John_Guest said:

Hello.

 

I'm sick of the new woke NHL. Just play hockey.

I'm sick of people who are afraid of "wokeness" 

[Angry Goose]

4 hours ago, Bad_BOI_pete said:

i did ask you to re-write it...

 

do you mean you support reasonable rules and laws that supports the right to practice and demonstrate support for movements? i think most people will agree to that, on both sides of the political spectrum

 

i just had trouble tying the first two sentences together, and i'm struggling still. i get the jist, but not the message

So I think the point at issue was the idea of “forcing beliefs” 

 

To paraphrase, what you said seems correct. People believe they are having beliefs ‘thrust’ upon them. What organizations support and do though-what justifies that?

 

I think most people would agree that true equality entails fairness under the law. Although celebrating pride events is more about supporting inclusion/diversity within sports, I dont think its a leap to say there’s a more general (and reasonable) principle being advocated as well.  

 

The pushback despite well reasoned positions is actually not all that baffling though. That’s why I brought up rationality, reasons and beliefs.

 

 

 

 

[Angry Goose]

2 hours ago, Master Mind said:

Some reaction justified, the outrage isn't.

 

Regardless, it had consequences that negatively impacted the cause people claim to support. Ignoring this is being willfully ignorant and shows a complete lack of accountability.

Sometimes people are mad for good reason.

 

Second, “negative impact” is only trivially true.   This isnt about the cancellation of a couple of mere jersey nights. It goes much further than that. 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

1 hour ago, DS4quality said:

I'm sick of people who are afraid of "wokeness" 

The problem is when a cause or a right of someone is pushed on someone else. That is infringement of another's rights.

 

Provorov even went as far as explaining he supports people to make their own choices and live their lives. He was in no way disrespectful and simply due to his life choices and beliefs ( his rights ) he decided not to take part. And he was ripped beyond belief here and abroad, called a bigot, homophobe, monster, his nationality and religion were dragged through the mud and prominent media and personalities alike joined in to bash him.

 

So much for inclusiveness right? I mean you can live your life but heaven forbid you don't agree or choose to take part in something that represents or empowers others living their lifestyles. Such crap.

 

So do we wonder why the Rangers removed the jersey night and others are following suit? Well if a player, teammate, person exercises their rights and doesn't take part for their own reason ( and you have to understand that is actually ok ) as even being a player, a paid employee a workplace can't force this on you. Guess who the next monster, bigot, homophobe is? exactly.

 

The teams started this innocently enough, someone was not ok with it ( again thats ok ) and that person was ripped to shreds. Smart move by the teams to remove that issue altogether. The amount of good, exposure, empowerment and celebration gets tarnished by those advocating it because they won't accept anything but their way.

 

You preach inclusiveness, equal rights, and empower those seeking it, you become advocates and allies. BUT you damn people for not following suit and putting their own rights and beliefs aside. That is truly shameful and sadly ironic in the end.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Mike Vanderhoek

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

The problem is when a cause or a right of someone is pushed on someone else. That is infringement of another's rights.

 

Provorov even went as far as explaining he supports people to make their own choices and live their lives. He was in no way disrespectful and simply due to his life choices and beliefs ( his rights ) he decided not to take part. And he was ripped beyond belief here and abroad, called a bigot, homophobe, monster, his nationality and religion were dragged through the mud and prominent media and personalities alike joined in to bash him.

 

So much for inclusiveness right? I mean you can live your life but heaven forbid you don't agree or choose to take part in something that represents or empowers others living their lifestyles. Such crap.

 

So do we wonder why the Rangers removed the jersey night and others are following suit? Well if a player, teammate, person exercises their rights and doesn't take part for their own reason ( and you have to understand that is actually ok ) as even being a player, a paid employee a workplace can't force this on you. Guess who the next monster, bigot, homophobe is? exactly.

 

The teams started this innocently enough, someone was not ok with it ( again thats ok ) and that person was ripped to shreds. Smart move by the teams to remove that issue altogether. The amount of good, exposure, empowerment and celebration gets tarnished by those advocating it because they won't accept anything but their way.

 

You preach inclusiveness, equal rights, and empower those seeking it, you become advocates and allies. BUT you damn people for not following suit and putting their own rights and beliefs aside. That is truly shameful and sadly ironic in the end.

Provorov is hiding like a coward behind a religion that teaches hatred. The league needs to make the decision they will not extend new contacts to any players who have these bigoted and sick views. He can have his twisted views but there will be consequences. No nhl contract. 

[StrayDog]

3 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

The problem is when a cause or a right of someone is pushed on someone else. That is infringement of another's rights.

Yeah, I hate that they forced the right to vote for blacks and women down my throat. I mean, what was wrong with them just following along with what all we white men were voting for? It's not like they understood anything going on in the world. Now all this "wokeness" means I gotta tend my own crops AND I have to make my own damn sammich! And now all these LGBTQ+ folks want to be able to hold hands in public and not be ridiculed for it? That's outrageous!! I really wish we could go back to the good ole days when straight white men could do whatever they wanted and no one could do anything about it!!

Edit: Before you react, kindly be aware that the above is a satirical rant. I understand some of you may totally agree with it and want to disabuse you of the notion I might be on your side.

Edited February 13, 2023 by StrayDog

[StrayDog]

For everyone going on about free speech being infringed upon. Freedom of speech (and religion) gives Provorov every right to act as he did. It does not make him immune to reactions (good or bad) to his actions/ statement. But please be aware that sometimes free speech is wrong: I have the right to yell "I have a bomb!" while standing in line at the airport. It does not give me the freedom from being tackled and arrested for causing a public panic. I'll add to the point with some "whataboutism":

Suppose a hot new goalie prospect gets drafted by the Canucks and shows up with "Hitler was right" across the front of his helmet. You'd be all cool protecting his right to his opinion, yeah? I mean, he's not hurting anybody.....

[Master Mind]

4 hours ago, Angry Goose said:

Sometimes people are mad for good reason.

 

Second, “negative impact” is only trivially true.   This isnt about the cancellation of a couple of mere jersey nights. It goes much further than that. 

Sometimes. Not this time.

 

This thread is specifically about the cancellation of those nights.

[Alflives]

13 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

Sometimes. Not this time.

 

This thread is specifically about the cancellation of those nights.

Nope. This is about the consequences to bigoted behaviour. Provorov and others in the NHL with his views should not be given further contracts. 

[StrayDog]

23 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

Sometimes. Not this time.

 

This thread is specifically about the cancellation of those nights.

This thread is about what the cancellation of those nights mean to a marginalized community who see no room for themselves in hockey at any level. When someone (Provorov) decides not to wear a pride jersey it makes an unspoken announcement that he does not believe that the LGBTQ+ community deserves the same rights that he enjoys. The fact that other teams will then cancel pride nights means those teams, and by extension the NHL, do not fully support the idea that those people have a right to be open with who they are, and are not truly welcome in the hockey world. Or, more accurately, they're welcome as long as no one knows they're not "normal".

[Master Mind]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Nope. This is about the consequences to bigoted behaviour. Provorov and others in the NHL with his views should not be given further contracts. 

Your post is a perfect example of why other teams cancelled their event.

[Master Mind]

Just now, StrayDog said:

This thread is about what the cancellation of those nights mean to a marginalized community who see no room for themselves in hockey at any level. When someone (Provorov) decides not to wear a pride jersey it makes an unspoken announcement that he does not believe that the LGBTQ+ community deserves the same rights that he enjoys. The fact that other teams will then cancel pride nights means those teams, and by extension the NHL, do not fully support the idea that those people have a right to be open with who they are, and are not truly welcome in the hockey world. Or, more accurately, they're welcome as long as no one knows they're not "normal".

The bolded part is an assumption, not what he said.

 

If he said those things, I could understand people being upset.

 

But for people to want him to be out of work over an assumption, it's no wonder why other teams cancel.

[StrayDog]

Just now, Master Mind said:

The bolded part is an assumption, not what he said.

 

If he said those things, I could understand people being upset.

 

But for people to want him to be out of work over an assumption, it's no wonder why other teams cancel.

So then his silence and not wearing the pride jersey means he fully supports pride night? You don't need to say something to show what you believe. Actions speak louder than words.

To be clear, I have never once said he should not be playing hockey. 

[Master Mind]

Just now, StrayDog said:

So then his silence and not wearing the pride jersey means he fully supports pride night? You don't need to say something to show what you believe. Actions speak louder than words.

To be clear, I have never once said he should not be playing hockey. 

He clearly doesn't fully support it, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's fully against it either, to the point of thinking the community doesn't deserve equal rights.

 

That's an assumption people want to make.

 

I wasn't referring to you on the not playing hockey point. There are some who believe that though, as evidenced by posts earlier on this page.

[22Sedinery33]

Basically this...

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CnktuqKIBAN/?hl=en

[StrayDog]

4 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

He clearly doesn't fully support it, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's fully against it either, to the point of thinking the community doesn't deserve equal rights.

 

That's an assumption people want to make.

 

I wasn't referring to you on the not playing hockey point. There are some who believe that though, as evidenced by posts earlier on this page.

The non-support is the issue. It reminds me of people saying they fully support black people having a nice house as long as it's not in their neighborhood "because it brings the property value down". 

To put it in a more hockey-themed way (since everyone wants all of this to be just about hockey), if I yell up and down about what a huge Canuck fan I am, but show up at a home game in a Marchand jersey, then what do you believe about me?

[Alflives]

28 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

Your post is a perfect example of why other teams cancelled their event.

So we agree on the why other teams cancelled their events. They did because they know they gave players who believe gays are of lesser value. These are sick beliefs.  And cowardly acts.