[Trade] Canucks trade Bo Horvat to Islanders for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty, 2023 1st-round draft pick

[Coconuts]

6 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Alvin said this, not Rutherford.

[coryberg]

5 minutes ago, Shayster007 said:

Alvin said this, not Rutherford.

You are going to have to excuse him. I think gottalovethosenucks is going senile.

[coryberg]

14 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol the fact that they didn't even shop around the islander offers to give any other team a chance to do better is a big fail already.. u think the islander offer was sooooooooooo good that no team can even come close to matching it?

Hard for boston, Carolina, New Jersey, Seattle, etc to offer a 2023 12-16OA/2024 lottery pick.

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Devron said:

Some people writing off Beau. Be interesting to look back at this thread in a couple months. 

Time will tell, if he fits quickly and produces at a good clip he could maybe hit close to 40 points (which he's never hit) 

 

Depends on how he's deployed, who he plays with, ect

 

He's only sitting at 20 points thus far and we've only 33 games to go 

[coryberg]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Time will tell, if he fits quickly and produces at a good clip he could maybe hit close to 40 points (which he's never hit) 

 

Depends on how he's deployed, who he plays with, ect

 

He's only sitting at 20 points thus far and we've only 33 games to go 

2017-18 he had 21 G and 36 P in 71 games @ 14:32 TOI

(24 G and 42 P in 82 pace)

 

2019-20 he had 18 G and 39 P in 68 games @ 17:16 TOI

(22 G and 47 P in 82 pace)

 

2020-21* (covid shortened season) he had 15 G and 28 P in 47 games @ 16:24 TOI

(26 G and 49 P in 82 pace) 

 

Even last year he was on a 37 point pace. The major factors in him hitting 40 next year would be ice time and health. He's definitely got it in him otherwise.

[Coconuts]

Just now, coryberg said:

2017-18 he had 21 G and 36 P in 71 games @ 14:32 TOI

(24 G and 42 P in 82 pace)

 

2019-20 he had 18 G and 39 P in 68 games @ 17:16 TOI

(22 G and 47 P in 82 pace)

 

2020-21* (covid shortened season) he had 15 G and 28 P in 47 games @ 16:24 TOI

(26 G and 49 P in 82 pace) 

 

Even last year he was on a 37 point pace. The major factors in him hitting 40 next year would be ice time and health. He's definitely got it in him otherwise.

Yup, I've looked at his stats too. 

[Zerofaith]

1 hour ago, Devron said:

Some people writing off Beau. Be interesting to look back at this thread in a couple months. 

Let’s just hope one of these assets hits 

[N4ZZY]

10 hours ago, SilentSam said:

The other thing is ,  you / we have no idea how Miller might react to this ..

Yes. That is certainly true and is unknown at this point. That's a wait and see with JT and how he responds to Tocchet (or doesn't). 

 

You and I disagree with the captaincy going to Miller. I say no to that, only because JT is so volatile emotionally. That can wear pretty thin in a room pretty fast. You can lose the locker room quickly, what then? I don't think the room right now has enough leadership to run its own. The 2011 team with the Sedins, and so many other leaders on that team essentially ran themselves. But not this group. 

 

I'm not as certain as you that Miller will bring better assets than Bo did. It really depends on Miller's production in 3-4 years right? You're assuming that he's still producing at a high level, but he's going to be 33-34 years old in 3-4 years. Where will his offensive game be? What about his defensive game - will that even improve, or will it further decline? It's very likely that we could have another OEL like contract on our hands. I can't say for sure, but I'm not as optimistic as you are with a "better" deal coming our way. 

 

If he's so highly sought after and regarded, why was there a reported surprise with the Canucks signing JT to the contract that he was signed for? 

 

And why aren't more teams reportedly interested in JT? 

 

[N4ZZY]

10 minutes ago, Zerofaith said:

Let’s just hope one of these assets hits 

I'm a wait and see with Beau. He's 25, and he hadn't produced offensively in New York this season, and was already declining last season. 

 

I think it depends on who he's playing with, and whether he's given the offensive green light to produce. And whether he can produce is another question. If he's on the decline, then thank God that we only have him for one more season and he's off the books. 

 

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, coryberg said:

Hard for boston, Carolina, New Jersey, Seattle, etc to offer a 2023 12-16OA/2024 lottery pick.

so you are predicting the future? none of those scenario are guaranteed. we can easily be drafting in the 17-20 slot this year or 20+ slots next year.. or the islander slots in in the 1-12 slot and then do decent next year and we end up with a even worse pick. u don't think shopping around with the islander offer to see what else is out there and if something comes up or come close to the islanders offer u can't go back to a desperate islander team to renegotiate? literally have all week and all star weekend to negotiate and go back to islanders and see if u can get more out of it. or is the islander all of a sudden going to pull the deal?

[NHL97OneTimer]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol the fact that they didn't even shop around the islander offers to give any other team a chance to do better is a big fail already.. u think the islander offer was sooooooooooo good that no team can even come close to matching it?

Was there evidence that they didn't really know what other offers would have been or were already in play?  It's hard to imagine that they jumped at the first offer after months of speculation that Bo would be traded.

[SilentSam]

11 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Yes. That is certainly true and is unknown at this point. That's a wait and see with JT and how he responds to Tocchet (or doesn't). 

 

You and I disagree with the captaincy going to Miller. I say no to that, only because JT is so volatile emotionally. That can wear pretty thin in a room pretty fast. You can lose the locker room quickly, what then? I don't think the room right now has enough leadership to run its own. The 2011 team with the Sedins, and so many other leaders on that team essentially ran themselves. But not this group. 

 

I'm not as certain as you that Miller will bring better assets than Bo did. It really depends on Miller's production in 3-4 years right? You're assuming that he's still producing at a high level, but he's going to be 33-34 years old in 3-4 years. Where will his offensive game be? What about his defensive game - will that even improve, or will it further decline? It's very likely that we could have another OEL like contract on our hands. I can't say for sure, but I'm not as optimistic as you are with a "better" deal coming our way. 

 

If he's so highly sought after and regarded, why was there a reported surprise with the Canucks signing JT to the contract that he was signed for? 

 

And why aren't more teams reportedly interested in JT? 

 

To answer your last question first,  perhaps management is telling other teams he’s not available?

     I also think management wants him as their Vet presence ,

we can go on comparing the Sedins, Horvat and Naslund for being “strong silent types.… but I don’t think that has won us anything , and to have someone vocal, and intense , and willing to engage,      Is better than having a leader or Captain watching his teamates take punches .

 

Why a surprise ?  Miller likes it here and openly said he wants to stay.  We did get a good deal ,  4-5 years now and his points are there, speaking for themselves.

 

His production has never really waivered,  that’s consistency,   
not something I see looking at Bo’s production..  great to have a break out year, but where has he been?

I think Bo will drop off before Milller does, and Miller will still be putting up decent numbers , when Bo wanes from this season.

 

Miller did seem to put it on his stick a lot this season,.  But I haven’t looked at stats for that.

 

 

.. you know how I stand with this and I see no reason to be re-gurgitating the same opinions ,.  No offence intended.….   
Im just surprised more people didn’t see this outcome even before Miller signed here.

 

It’s about a culture change,.   and there is probably 2 more players to be parting ways from the Canucks , to have gotten rid of the old culture we had.

 Erase the past,  Then the change begins.

 

Ps. Beauviller will respond well to more ice time ,  Raty will turn out to be our best Center (positional) in 2 to 3 more seasons.…. And that pick we grabbed,  I think we shop it for the D man we e been missing ( perhaps add to the pick)

that’s how I think this is going to unfold further.

 

[Wolfgang Durst]

"erase the past" is easier said that done. In an interview Jim Rutherford let all the fans know that this franchise is stuck with contracts. Canucks tried hard to move out some contracts but realized in the end that market does not allow them to do so.

again: How do you get rid of the OEL contract? How do you move out a contract like Myers? Is there any interest from other teams in Connor Garland?

 

First of all you have to identify the problems ?

What are the problems?

1. the impatient owner that wants to play VP of hockey ops by hiring a headcoach?

2. the mentally fragile and soft team

3. the inept player development department

4. Allvin & Rutherford making it a priority to add young players to the team instead of making character a priority ?

 

This is going to take years to get out of this mess.

[Timråfan]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol the fact that they didn't even shop around the islander offers to give any other team a chance to do better is a big fail already.. u think the islander offer was sooooooooooo good that no team can even come close to matching it?

Other teams might have wanted much more retained or only had real cap dumps to offer beside the fact that Islanders 1st is way better than any of the others.

Beauvillier can probably replicate Horvats numbers by himself. Just not the goals at the end of his contract.

 

You can try explain wich team has cap and a middle 1st or better and willing to part with their top prospect.

[Timråfan]

53 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I'm a wait and see with Beau. He's 25, and he hadn't produced offensively in New York this season, and was already declining last season. 

 

I think it depends on who he's playing with, and whether he's given the offensive green light to produce. And whether he can produce is another question. If he's on the decline, then thank God that we only have him for one more season and he's off the books. 

 

Better he plays like crap one more season so he will be cheap… If not he will be too expensive.

[wai_lai416]

33 minutes ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Was there evidence that they didn't really know what other offers would have been or were already in play?  It's hard to imagine that they jumped at the first offer after months of speculation that Bo would be traded.

according to kevin weekes i guess could take with a grain of salt but he said he was "told" by other NHL clubs that were interested in horvat the canucks didn't shop the islander offer around.. i mean he could easily say he have heard from others rather than said he was directly told. like i'm sure they know what other teams have offered but the fact they didn't try to bargain or negotiate with other teams to see if there's better offers or if any team could match or out bid them tells me they are impatient. or is JR scared of lou pulling the deal like they did last year at the draft lol.

[Zerofaith]

22 minutes ago, Wolfgang Durst said:

"erase the past" is easier said that done. In an interview Jim Rutherford let all the fans know that this franchise is stuck with contracts. Canucks tried hard to move out some contracts but realized in the end that market does not allow them to do so.

again: How do you get rid of the OEL contract? How do you move out a contract like Myers? Is there any interest from other teams in Connor Garland?

 

First of all you have to identify the problems ?

What are the problems?

1. the impatient owner that wants to play VP of hockey ops by hiring a headcoach?

2. the mentally fragile and soft team

3. the inept player development department

4. Allvin & Rutherford making it a priority to add young players to the team instead of making character a priority ?

 

This is going to take years to get out of this mess.

Careful you’re  being way too on point with your analysis  the hounds in this thread will  hunt you down 

[wai_lai416]

23 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Other teams might have wanted much more retained or only had real cap dumps to offer beside the fact that Islanders 1st is way better than any of the others.

Beauvillier can probably replicate Horvats numbers by himself. Just not the goals at the end of his contract.

 

You can try explain wich team has cap and a middle 1st or better and willing to part with their top prospect.

again.. the so call "middle 1st or better" is not guaranteed.. if islander go on a run with a hot goalie it could easily be a 25+ pick.. 

 

literally any of the contending team would have the cap to take horvat.. why? coz we literally just took a cap dump of equal value that have another year attached to it.. so literally those teams don't even need to make cap for horvat in this scenario.. coz the canucks took equal cap back pretty much -1mil in which they retained to balance it out. carolina the canucks literally can just retain 50% on horvat and not even have to take a cap dump in return.. toronto prolly dont have much we want but again they can literally take horvat at 50% retained this year without having to cap dump.. obviously if they want to cap dump expiring contract that's fine and we can ask for more. there are so many teams out there that can take on a horvat with retention at the deadline.. heck if vegas want to go on a deep run.. they have 3.9mil in deadline cap and now that stone is out.. interest for horvat would be off the chart if he was still available as a rental.

[Zerofaith]

20 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

again.. the so call "middle 1st or better" is not guaranteed.. if islander go on a run with a hot goalie it could easily be a 25+ pick.. 

 

literally any of the contending team would have the cap to take horvat.. why? coz we literally just took a cap dump of equal value that have another year attached to it.. so literally those teams don't even need to make cap for horvat in this scenario.. coz the canucks took equal cap back pretty much -1mil in which they retained to balance it out. carolina the canucks literally can just retain 50% on horvat and not even have to take a cap dump in return.. toronto prolly dont have much we want but again they can literally take horvat at 50% retained this year without having to cap dump.. obviously if they want to cap dump expiring contract that's fine and we can ask for more. there are so many teams out there that can take on a horvat with retention at the deadline.. heck if vegas want to go on a deep run.. they have 3.9mil in deadline cap and now that stone is out.. interest for horvat would be off the chart if he was still available as a rental.

Another possibility is flipping Beau at deadline as a grinder playoff depth to a contending team 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Zerofaith

[Zerofaith]

51 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Better he plays like crap one more season so he will be cheap… If not he will be too expensive.

What’s your logic here?