[Trade] Red Wings trade Filip Hronek, 2023 4th-round pick to Canucks for conditional 2023 1st-round pick (NYI), 2023 2nd-round pick

[JeremyCuddles]

1 minute ago, ronthecivil said:

Your right. But not investing in the future is kind of foolish when your present is terrible. They might not like loosing but they are part and parcel of the stale core that is surrounded by AHLers. I don't think there is a path that will make them happy in the short term. It's the same problem they have always had. Always looking for the miracle trade that makes the team an instant contender. It's never worked and it likely never will. Especially when your in salary cap purgator.

Who said we're not investing in the future? Hronek is 25 and we still have our 1st rounder. We still have 7 picks in this draft. So we're hardly going to be spectators. We also have a few more moves to make. We added Raty, still young, we added Kravtsov, still young, Bloom, still a teenager I think. It's not as doom and gloom as we make it sounds. I really feel like a broken record. But Hronek is not old. He's just barely hitting his prime.

[ronthecivil]

3 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Captain Fly By painted his own box .

 

We are still in a position to trade up for Bedard regardless..  We should be close enough to the first overall,  and have assets and other picks in the following years to ante up with.

 

Would be a shame to see Bedard go to a team like Phoenix,  that would sting the kid.

Worse than McD going to Edm.

Ha ha fair enough on Horvat! I don't see 85 points a year coming from him either. Bad move the NYI.

 

However, no way in hell are we moving up to get Bedard. Why would someone trade that pick? I sure wouldn't.

[DrJockitch]

3 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Captain Fly By painted his own box .

 

We are still in a position to trade up for Bedard regardless..  We should be close enough to the first overall,  and have assets and other picks in the following years to ante up with.

 

Would be a shame to see Bedard go to a team like Phoenix,  that would sting the kid.

Worse than McD going to Edm.

Really, line up all the teams that have been tanking so hard and tell me which one is willing to trade down. 
And we have depleted that type of capital for that sort of move, not added to it. 

[JeremyCuddles]

1 minute ago, nuckin_futz said:

Good points but juxtapose that with Bo Horvat. He was here for 8 full years and made the playoffs twice and if his number was met was probably happy to sign here long term and we appear to be going nowhere. Then he gets traded to a middling team and signs long term. He's seems OK with having his enjoyment killed and aging prematurely.

Hughes isn't Bo. What is fine for one guy may not be fine for another. Bo also was asking for the moon. Who even knows if he cared about winning. Losing came at a cost premium for him at best, or he didn't care about winning at worst. But all in all, what he is fine with doesn't mean Hughes or Demko or Petey are fine with it.

[SilentSam]

8 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I saw that. That being said I'm not convinced Hughes will be here for the remainder of his career 

But at least he confirmed he wouldn’t want be here if you and others feel a rebuild is necessary..    Im convinced that EP would feel the same way,  and perhaps others.

 

Then you would be demolishing the foundation , looking for cheap concrete to rebuild with.

 

[RWJC]

Just now, McBackup said:

Oh wow. Well while we’re putting words in each others mouths based on strawmans, why do you think the OEL and Gudbranson deals were so amazing? They seem pretty bad in hindsight but if you insist they were great trades I don’t think any amount of convincing will change your view.

I’m not putting words in any mouths.

if any plans for this major rebuild that people propose have been presented on CDC where they involve keeping EP or QH, please show me them. Even if it doesn’t involve keeping them, please enlighten us all with your armchair GM methodology.

 

I’d rather see someone formulate a plan or solution for all their complaints and post that to CDC for critique, but we don’t get that. None of you are confident enough in your rebuild ideology to put yourselves in that position…to be ridiculed like you are so quickly able to do to others.

 

thats the inherent problem…all this rebuild rhetoric…what’s your f**king plan?!?!? Let’s hear something thorough and constructive for once on how you achieve it.  How many years does it take, who do you target, where do you project other clubs to be over that period.
 

Ya know, the same shit you expect of the team mgmt, who actually know how to manage the full compliment of a pro sports corporation. 
 

please I’m begging for your concepts.

maybe then you might develop some further acceptance of your “plight”.

[ronthecivil]

1 minute ago, N7Nucks said:

Who said we're not investing in the future? Hronek is 25 and we still have our 1st rounder. We still have 7 picks in this draft. So we're hardly going to be spectators. We also have a few more moves to make. We added Raty, still young, we added Kravtsov, still young, Bloom, still a teenager I think. It's not as doom and gloom as we make it sounds. I really feel like a broken record. But Hronek is not old. He's just barely hitting his prime.

It's still not next season I agree. If they find a way out of cap prison and maybe get a few more picks, I will be ok. But that of course will make the team worse in the short term which I don't think management will accept. So we will still be in cap prison.

 

I need to see a path out of that prison to have any hope.

[Jester13]

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

My guess on what's happening is we're on a path of trying to save what we have at this point. Perhaps it will work. Perhaps it won't. We can't say for sure what's going to happen.

 

I agree with other people though that, if we're truly thinking about a rebuild, we can't expect any player to stay. Quinn's words even make me wonder if the players are even at the point where a retool as you say won't cut it anymore. It's certainly possible.

We have three options, as I see it:

 

1) Rebuild: trade away as many guys as you can (ala Chicago), including Petey or Hughes, and get as much draft capital as possible. Take the much longer road to building a sustainable team. 

 

2) Re-tool with a step back this year and next: trade away Bo, Schenn, and anyone else you can who is not named Petey or Hughes (or Demko) and accumulate as much draft capital as possible while continuing to build a contender with a solid prospect cupboard.

 

3) Re-tool shortcut: Trade away a 2023 1st and 2nd for positional need for help this year and next when we're not ready to contend.

 

I wanted to see option #1 before we got Petey and Hughes, but that didn't happen. Every year since then, management chose option #3, and we still are one of the worst teams in the league.

 

Now we have Petey and Hughes still and starting to enter their primes. I don't want to see them waste those years, but I also want to see them build for long-term sustained success. I would've liked to see option #2, as I think we could've continued to re-tool that way, but with this year and next year drafting/clearing cap, and still begin to contend with Petey and Hughes. Instead, management chose option #3 again (it's a sickness, really), and we're once again in cap trouble and less top draft picks.

 

It's possible that their re-tool, using the same strategy as before, will work this time, but it's also possible that it'll fall short just like the last regime and in four years we'll have been re-tooling for 16 years. At least this regime brought in a really good rhd player who's 25 and not 30 like OEL. 

[nuckin_futz]

2 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Hughes isn't Bo. What is fine for one guy may not be fine for another. Bo also was asking for the moon. Who even knows if he cared about winning. Losing came at a cost premium for him at best, or he didn't care about winning at worst. But all in all, what he is fine with doesn't mean Hughes or Demko or Petey are fine with it.

It doesn't mean they are not either.

[McBackup]

1 minute ago, RWJC said:

I’m not putting words in any mouths.

if any plans for this major rebuild that people propose have been presented on CDC where they involve keeping EP or QH, please show me them. Even if it doesn’t involve keeping them, please enlighten us all with your armchair GM methodology.

 

I’d rather see someone formulate a plan or solution for all their complaints and post that to CDC for critique, but we don’t get that. None of you are confident enough in your rebuild ideology to put yourselves in that position…to be ridiculed like you are so quickly able to do to others.

 

thats the inherent problem…all this rebuild rhetoric…what’s your f**king plan?!?!? Let’s hear something thorough and constructive for once on how you achieve it.  How many years does it take, who do you target, where do you project other clubs to be over that period.
 

Ya know, the same shit you expect of the team mgmt, who actually know how to manage the full compliment of a pro sports corporation. 
 

please I’m begging for your concepts.

maybe then you might develop some further acceptance of your “plight”.

You still haven’t explained why the OEL trade is so amazing 

[RWJC]

Just now, McBackup said:

You still haven’t explained why the OEL trade is so amazing 

What are you talking about? I never mentioned OEL in my posts with you

[steviewonder20]

28 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

We would lose Hughes and Petey in that process Jester,    Hughes even elaborated that today,   He said “ We don’t want to be here for a rebuild” .

Where was the interview posted where he said that? TIA

[JeremyCuddles]

Just now, ronthecivil said:

It's still not next season I agree. If they find a way out of cap prison and maybe get a few more picks, I will be ok. But that of course will make the team worse in the short term which I don't think management will accept. So we will still be in cap prison.

 

I need to see a path out of that prison to have any hope.

I agree our biggest hurdle now is dumping cap. This move may age really poorly if we run a blueline of OEL, Hughes and Hronek. Boeser and Garland are top priority moves. That may come in the offseason though when teams have cap.

[jyu]

12 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Captain Fly By painted his own box .

 

We are still in a position to trade up for Bedard regardless..  We should be close enough to the first overall,  and have assets and other picks in the following years to ante up with.

 

Would be a shame to see Bedard go to a team like Phoenix,  that would sting the kid.

Worse than McD going to Edm.

Yes. We are still in a position to trade up for Bedard for sure.

 

If we are picking around 4th overall or so, I think whichever team wins the lottery will take our offer of Pettersson, Hughes, and 4th overall pick for Bedard.

 

Bedard is the player to build around. I don't care about giving up Pettersson and Hughes if it means we can get Bedard.

 

[McBackup]

Just now, RWJC said:

What are you talking about? I never mentioned OEL in my posts with you

Right but since we’re fighting windmills you are clearly in favour of it.

[JeremyCuddles]

3 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

It doesn't mean they are not either.

Well, Hughes just said he's not about losing. So I dunno. Lol. We can do this merry-go-round debate. But I'd rather not. Agree to disagree.

[RWJC]

1 minute ago, McBackup said:

Right but since we’re fighting windmills you are clearly in favour of it.

What’s your rebuild plan then?
Good luck to you. 
 

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by RWJC

[250Integra]

32 minutes ago, ToTellTheTruth said:

First round picks that some here think aren't worth it,

 

Crosby

Malkin

Ovechkin

McDavid

Eichel

Hughes

Mathews

Dahlin

Powers

MacKinnon

Taveras

Kane

Stamkos

Hischier

Ekblad

RNH

 

All dogs and not worth trying for and that is just ONE player per draft.

 

Whoopie doo. I can name top picks too, here’s two for you: Jake Virtanen, Olli Juolevi.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by 250Integra

[The Lock]

Just now, Jester13 said:

We have three options, as I see it:

 

1) Rebuild: trade away as many guys as you can (ala Chicago), including Petey or Hughes, and get as much draft capital as possible. Take the much longer road to building a sustainable team. 

 

2) Re-tool with a step back this year and next: trade away Bo, Schenn, and anyone else you can who is not named Petey or Hughes (or Demko) and accumulate as much draft capital as possible while continuing to build a contender with a solid prospect cupboard.

 

3) Re-tool shortcut: Trade away a 2023 1st and 2nd for positional need for help this year and next when we're not ready to contend.

 

I wanted to see option #1 before we got Petey and Hughes, but that didn't happen. Every year since then, management chose option #3, and we still are one of the worst teams in the league.

 

Now we have Petey and Hughes still and starting to enter their primes. I don't want to see them waste those years, but I also want to see them build for long-term sustained success. I would've liked to see option #2, as I think we could've continued to re-tool that way, but with this year and next year drafting/clearing cap, and still begin to contend with Petey and Hughes. Instead, management chose option #3 again (it's a sickness, really), and we're once again in cap trouble and less top draft picks.

 

It's possible that their re-tool, using the same strategy as before, will work this time, but it's also possible that it'll fall short just like the last regime and in four years we'll have been re-tooling for 16 years. At least this regime brought in a really good rhd player who's 25 and not 30 like OEL. 

Like I said, it's going to be hard to say what happens. I'm not defending the trade as I would have preferred to have kept those picks. I am however going to defend the idea of getting Hronek as he is a position we've needed for a long time. I hope that makes sense. I like the idea of what we're getting but the timing seems a little weird if what sources say is true and we literally caught Yzerman off guard asking about Hronek.

 

On a slightly different tangent, I have a feeling the Islanders will make the playoffs and if that happens, then we're talking the later half of round 1 for that pick. I guess my question would be what could we expect in that part of the draft anyway? Sure, the draft's supposedly deep, but we do see a lot of drafts where more of the guessing game really starts the 2nd half of the 1st round it seems. So perhaps that was also taken into account in all of this.

[nuckin_futz]

1 minute ago, N7Nucks said:

Well, Hughes just said he's not about losing. So I dunno. Lol. We can do this merry-go-round debate. But I'd rather not. Agree to disagree.

He literally cannot say anything else. That's like Cheech saying he doesn't dream about cheeseburgers. Yeah Right