Cap… Wait it out a year or pay a price to make space?

[chon derry]

3 minutes ago, chon derry said:

Why. Because there isn’t a team that could shell out 16.8 mill for a draft pick 

But I’m sure if there was they’d all be lining up to do the deal. But the bigger question would be why would the Canucks even entertain the far fetched notion ?  

Edited June 12, 2023 by chon derry

[Timråfan]

3 hours ago, EastCoastNucks said:

 

Geez nobody wants to talk the obvious. We need Schenn, and maybe 3 Schenns and 3 Bears would be better than 2 OEL, 2 Myers and 2 Hughes. Before response, do the CAP math and impact to the teams ability to afford to have a future

We don’t need Schenn.

We need players that get better and better the older they get.

Schenn won’t be better in four years.

Do that math on every player you want fo the Canucks.

In four years they shall be the absolute best.

Not their best right now.

3 hours ago, EastCoastNucks said:

Why is trading good players with good contracts bundled with historical players with bad contracts not an option in this discussion? OEL and HUGHES bundled for a first round pick for example... to a team who has the cap to free us up 15 MIL or more. For those of you thinking of the LTIR stuff, that is imaginary cap. We can only keep them injured for so long.

That is even more stupid than Bennings actions.

Trading one of the two moest essentiel building blocks we have.

Insane I say.

[EastCoastNucks]

3 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

Cap gymnastics aside, if you’re selling Hughes you’re basically rebuilding.  At that point you may as well keep OEL and bank as many assets as possible.

 

I thought management might look to strongly re-tool around Petey and Hughes after we traded Horvat but the Hronek deal wiped that off the map. We’re moving forward.
 

Good chance OEL will be bought out before his contract is up but every year we keep him takes 2 off the penalty and lowers the hit.  In the mean time it pays to see if he can bounce back.

The Cap gymnastics is the greatest concern for the Vancouver Canucks period.the OEL buyout is not the way out, its more cap debt its like going to a loan shark and its obvious most vancouver fans dont know loan sharks.

[EastCoastNucks]

3 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

Cap gymnastics aside, if you’re selling Hughes you’re basically rebuilding.  At that point you may as well keep OEL and bank as many assets as possible.

 

I thought management might look to strongly re-tool around Petey and Hughes after we traded Horvat but the Hronek deal wiped that off the map. We’re moving forward.
 

Good chance OEL will be bought out before his contract is up but every year we keep him takes 2 off the penalty and lowers the hit.  In the mean time it pays to see if he can bounce back.

The only reason to let Hughes go to another team would be to unload a contract like OEL.  Period. Otherwise Keep Hughes, INJURE OEL. end.

[EastCoastNucks]

42 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

We don’t need Schenn.

We need players that get better and better the older they get.

Schenn won’t be better in four years.

Do that math on every player you want fo the Canucks.

In four years they shall be the absolute best.

Not their best right now.

That is even more stupid than Bennings actions.

Trading one of the two moest essentiel building blocks we have.

Insane I say.

Do the math on the salaries in 4 years. Schenn is a quarter of his salary 4 years ago. He played better for the Canucks this year than he did 4 years ago for Toronto.

Can we afford our favorite players now in 4 years? When they all want 10 mil. per year contracts?

The time is now, with the youth but we gotta get rid of some bad cap space. That might mean a huge sacrifice in Hughes if we can free up OEL contract with it as a condition. If the Sedins were still on the ice, would you trade both of them for Bedard at half the cost?

 

[Timråfan]

11 hours ago, EastCoastNucks said:

Do the math on the salaries in 4 years. Schenn is a quarter of his salary 4 years ago. He played better for the Canucks this year than he did 4 years ago for Toronto.

Can we afford our favorite players now in 4 years? When they all want 10 mil. per year contracts?

The time is now, with the youth but we gotta get rid of some bad cap space. That might mean a huge sacrifice in Hughes if we can free up OEL contract with it as a condition. If the Sedins were still on the ice, would you trade both of them for Bedard at half the cost?

 

You, Benning and Anthony, stress stress stress…

[Danie_Canuck]

OEL (IMO) and Miller are our two biggest goofs right now that are going to eat us.  

 

That said - I think if I remember my math correctly from when I was pondering if an OEL buyout was a good option - it turned out to not be.  It would only free up 1 or 2 mill.  I think there was also an article somewhere on that.   I think it would help us free up 7 M this season, 4.9 M season after, then 2.4 M the following 2 years, finishing with costing us 2.1M a season from 27-28 season through to 30-32 season.   I think……  Short term gain long term pain?     I would rather see him traded (IF possible because of his NMC) to a cap floor needing team for picks.  Even 3rd rounders lol.  Just get him off the roster. 

 

Miller MAY be OK but only if he can still play well, and play like a team player and fix his ego and personality issues.   

 

If we had the opportunity to only get rid of one, I would get rid of OEL. 

[Baggins]

On 6/4/2023 at 11:12 AM, MeanSeanBean said:

Benning and to some extend Alvin made this bed. Time to sleep in it instead of continuously buying new pillows for a more comfortable sleep. If something comes up that legitimately benefits the team, I'm all in. But if the answer in buyouts, sweeteners, what have you, there is no point.

Personally I have no problem using waiver elligible players that may not make the team as sweeteners to move contracts. For example, after Myers bonus is paid I'd be fine with moving Myers plus Rathbone for a 4th round pick. Or Myers plus Hoglander for a 3rd round pick. If there's doubt these players will make the opening roster it's better to move them than lose them to waivers.Will Woo, Studnicka, Rathbone, or Hoglander clear waivers if they don't make the opening roster? What are the chances they all make the opening roster? It's fine to say "too early to give up on them" and you'd be right. But waiver elligibility gets in the way of keeping players until they are good enough to be NHL regulars. And gifting them a spot they haven't earns could well mean losing somebody else to waivers.

 

At this point I wouldn't buy out OEL or even look to move him. As to retention, I'd be fine with some retention for one year only. Just as I'm fine riding out a contract expiring next spring rather than buying it out. It's unlikely we're competing for the cup next season so it's pointless going to extremes to create cap space. But limited retention or minor sweeteners for cap space I'm 100% fine with.

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Personally I have no problem using waiver elligible players that may not make the team as sweeteners to move contracts. For example, after Myers bonus is paid I'd be fine with moving Myers plus Rathbone for a 4th round pick. Or Myers plus Hoglander for a 3rd round pick. If there's doubt these players will make the opening roster it's better to move them than lose them to waivers.Will Woo, Studnicka, Rathbone, or Hoglander clear waivers if they don't make the opening roster? What are the chances they all make the opening roster? It's fine to say "too early to give up on them" and you'd be right. But waiver elligibility gets in the way of keeping players until they are good enough to be NHL regulars. And gifting them a spot they haven't earns could well mean losing somebody else to waivers.

 

At this point I wouldn't buy out OEL or even look to move him. As to retention, I'd be fine with some retention for one year only. Just as I'm fine riding out a contract expiring next spring rather than buying it out. It's unlikely we're competing for the cup next season so it's pointless going to extremes to create cap space. But limited retention or minor sweeteners for cap space I'm 100% fine with.

Can there be retention for only part of the contract term? I think retention has to be for every remaining year. If we are going to clear out OEL it would have to be a buyout. 

[Gurn]

24 minutes ago, Baggins said:

.Will Woo, Studnicka, Rathbone, or Hoglander clear waivers if they don't make the opening roster? What are the chances they all make the opening roster?

Hoglander is the most likely to make the team, and the most likely to be claimed

Rathbone, due to position is unlikely to make the team, and might be claimed

Woo due to position might make the team, and is unlikely to be claimed

Studnicka unlikely in both scenarios.

 

If the team were more patient, I'd say keep Hoglander,Rathbone and Woo up in the bigs; then trade off enough of the 3/4/5 th liners we have to get a few picks.

However, given the rush the organization is in, I'd think Hogs is the only one that makes the team.

[Baggins]

10 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Can there be retention for only part of the contract term? I think retention has to be for every remaining year. If we are going to clear out OEL it would have to be a buyout. 

I should have been clearer. I'm fine with retaining cap on contracts expring next year. I don't like the idea of carrying dead cap for several years. I'd rather add a sweetener to be rid of the full amount. Retaining for one year at this point wouldn't concern me.

[cripplereh]

To me think we need to try and move ve Miller asap.Get some cap space and pick for the draft plus a good young player that might make the team.

 

Myers again try if not at tdl he will be moved or sooner.

 

BB not sure what to do unless a sweetener and retention is involved.

 

Beau might be interesting as he fits in but on final year.If we could resign him two year to three at the same amount I would try.

 

OEL you either keep for a year or two then buy out or send to the minors next year.He would be mad and might try to get his contract terminated.Ir rude it out.

[Baggins]

9 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Hoglander is the most likely to make the team, and the most likely to be claimed

Rathbone, due to position is unlikely to make the team, and might be claimed

Woo due to position might make the team, and is unlikely to be claimed

Studnicka unlikely in both scenarios.

 

If the team were more patient, I'd say keep Hoglander,Rathbone and Woo up in the bigs; then trade off enough of the 3/4/5 th liners we have to get a few picks.

However, given the rush the organization is in, I'd think Hogs is the only one that makes the team.

I'd be surprised if Rathbone cleared and shocked if Hoglander did. Why wouldn't a rebuilding team give either a shot when there's no cost in acquiring them. Hoglander making the team will depend a great deal on offseason moves. Even then he'll need to earn his spot in preseason.

 

Over the years there's been some clearing that surprised me but also those I was surprised were claimed. Woo and Stud I'd toss a coin on. Both play physical, have decent size, and are young. They wouldn't be the first claimed for their physical play. I wouldn't be surprised if claimed (or shed a tear), but also wouldn't be surprised they cleared.

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, cripplereh said:

To me think we need to try and move ve Miller asap.Get some cap space and pick for the draft plus a good young player that might make the team.

 

Myers again try if not at tdl he will be moved or sooner.

 

BB not sure what to do unless a sweetener and retention is involved.

 

Beau might be interesting as he fits in but on final year.If we could resign him two year to three at the same amount I would try.

 

OEL you either keep for a year or two then buy out or send to the minors next year.He would be mad and might try to get his contract terminated.Ir rude it out.

OEL has a NMC. He can't be sent to the minors or anywhere else without agreeing to it. Plus doing that only saves 1m in cap. Pointless.

[Stierlitz]

 

[PhillipBlunt]

On 6/4/2023 at 11:00 AM, Junkyard Dog said:

Cap is only gonna be a 1M increase by the sounds of it. 
 

 

The following off-season after this one the league are gonna have a more significant cap increase as well as we’re gonna have cap off the books from some more pricey expiring contracts. 
 

The question I am asking is do you wait it out a year and save assets or are you willing to pay sweeteners/buyouts/retention to create more cap space in order to try to improve the team right away?

That's for Alvin to determine. Will Pettersson, Hughes, and Demko be okay with another season of middling results? I don't think they will be, nor should they be. 

[PhillipBlunt]

On 6/11/2023 at 11:43 PM, Timråfan said:

We don’t need Schenn.

We need players that get better and better the older they get.

Schenn won’t be better in four years.

Do that math on every player you want fo the Canucks.

In four years they shall be the absolute best.

Not their best right now.

That is even more stupid than Bennings actions.

Trading one of the two moest essentiel building blocks we have.

Insane I say.

So definitely not Oliver Ekman-Larsson then. 

[Baggins]

5 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

So definitely not Oliver Ekman-Larsson then. 

He could have a renaissance season like Karlsson just had. Although he may need to go down to the crossroads and sign a deal with the Devil...  

[PhillipBlunt]

25 minutes ago, Baggins said:

He could have a renaissance season like Karlsson just had. Although he may need to go down to the crossroads and sign a deal with the Devil...  

[Alflives]

Buy out OEL. Attach assets to Garlsnd and zmyers. Clear 18 mil and clean awsy the Benning stain. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Alflives