2023-2024 Defence. Was the Hronek Trade enough?

[Phat Fingers]

With the recent moves by the Columbus Blue Jackets, the options to upgrade and or add any Defenders to our line up has dried up considerably.

 

The moves by Columbus make the Hronek Trade look well timed, even if you can dispute the price paid.

 

Had Alvin not been future minded we would be looking at an increasing cost to acquire a RHD Defender with upside of any caliber let alone a top two defender, and the biggest single weakness in our club since the departure of Kevin Bieksa to the Anaheim Ducks.

 

Keeping in mind that Luke Schenn was a far more likely and affordable option than a Severson would ever be, especially when we have such limited room to do anything in free agency at all.  
 

Other than dressing a surplus winger as a defender, to reverse the Woo experiment in Abbey by Trent Cull, what options does this team have to build a better back end than we currently have?

 

All speculation and a CDC need to sign all the players and draft all the draft picks.

 

Alvin did his D corps upgrade at the TDL last season.  
 

What this does is reduce the workload and demands on declining players like OEL and Tyler Myers.

 

Quinn Hughes at least has help next year, in Hronek.

 

With Demko healthy, it’s like winning ten more games in a season, and or winning free agency.

 

So with a healthy Demko and now two top two defenders under 25 years of age, is this enough to build from witihin and avoid high priced free agents other than fan favourite Luke Schenn.

 

Because the market for defenders in this years free agency just hit a fever pitch. 
 

So like it or lump it, we are getting two amazing defenders that we lacked for most of last year.  Demko and Hronek with an expectation that a healthy OEL will play better than the injured OEL last year, like we expect with Demko.

 

We stole the March on the league with Hronek and then Columbus went all in, stealing two marches on the entire league, starting an arms race in the eastern conference.  I just hope CBJ is high like winners from casinos and on can’t lose streak, and trade the 3rd 0A and cap dump player like Adam Boqvist to Vancouver for JT Miller, Local hero and 11 0A and a prospect.

 

I think that if any club should be barred from spending to the nines this off season on buy high and sell low assets, I am happy it’s the Vancouver Canucks.

 

We have a history of excessive spending and we should have our credit cards cut up this year for sure.

 

So with some growth expected from prospects like Woo and hopefully Rathbone, and with OEL healthy and Tyler Myers safely in a 4th spot, only holding it until a younger player takes it from him, or we trade he at the TDL for a 3rd, this defence is what it is, get used to it and realize that with Demko healthy we should have an expectation of being a playoff team.

 

By adding Hronek and OEL healthy and Tyler Myers not expected to be the top RHD ever again, I think we have a better team than spoken too and with our offensive depth, reason to be optimistic for next year, and please someone take the credit card away from Alvin.

 

Freeze it in a block of ice at least.

 

Phat Fingers.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Phat Fingers
Spelling

[chon derry]

Ethan bear came in cold last year. Considering  how long he was off ( long COVID) he equated himself quite well.  Mikehyev being part of the lousy preseason and start of season in general , hopefully healthy. Both  guys return with that much more familiarity. I’d throw joshua into that line of thinking as well. With tochetts season ending message to the team I expect a better start. Last years preseason was brutal. I hope who ever was behind the poor planning about who played with who is learned from. The 7-1 drubbing in edm. Was horrible. 2 regular players in the game while Edmonton dressed the starting line up. One would think they’d have a better idea of the prospects vs who they think stands the better chance of making the team than that. I mean the actual lineup that did start the season was nothing like any combination they tried in preseason. Thereby having The whole team coming in cold together. This in my opinion is attributed to the horrible start. 

[*Buzzsaw*]

No, the Hronek trade was definitely not enough.

 

Canucks need a big top 4 D-man to play opposite Hughes.

 

Should be minimum 6'3" 215 lbs and 25 years or younger.

 

Also need a bottom pairing big D... either Schenn or similar... preferably younger.

 

Zadorov would be a good fit.

 

 

[ilduce39]

Bringing in Hronek, Bear, Johannson and Hirose while D-Petey, Juulsen and Woo made progress was a nice step in the right direction on the back end.  
 

If we do anything I hope it’s in the bargain bin while we let Tocchet, Foote and Gonchar see what we have.

 

Maybe we have to buy out OEL next offseason but we can’t replace him yet.  We also can’t replace Myers until he’s gone.  Unless an absolute steal of a deal presents itself I can’t see much happening.  Maybe a bigger veteran 3LD on the cheap but as it stands the right side is full and the top 4 on the left side is also occupado- whether you like the pieces or not. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

No, the Hronek trade was definitely not enough.

 

Canucks need a big top 4 D-man to play opposite Hughes.

 

Should be minimum 6'3" 215 lbs and 25 years or younger.

 

Also need a bottom pairing big D... either Schenn or similar... preferably younger.

 

Zadorov would be a good fit.

 

 

So, the 11OA for Carlo? Or maybe we take a big run at Peeke - though the 11 is a huge overpay there and we don’t have a 2nd. I’d like either of those guys but that criteria is haaaard to fill - and even the two I named have some warts.

[grandmaster]

2 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

With the recent moves by the Columbus Blue Jackets, the options to upgrade and or add any Defenders to our line up has dried up considerably.

 

The moves by Columbus make the Hronek Trade look well timed, even if you can dispute the price paid.

 

Had Alvin not been future minded we would be looking at an increasing cost to acquire a RHD Defender with upside of any caliber let alone a top two defender, and the biggest single weakness in our club since the departure of Kevin Bieksa to the Anaheim Ducks.

 

Keeping in mind that Luke Schenn was a far more likely and affordable option than a Severson would ever be, especially when we have such limited room to do anything in free agency at all.  
 

Other than dressing a surplus winger as a defender, to reverse the Woo experiment in Abbey by Trent Cull, what options does this team have to build a better back end than we currently have?

 

All speculation and a CDC need to sign all the players and draft all the draft picks.

 

Alvin did his D corps upgrade at the TDL last season.  
 

What this does is reduce the workload and demands on declining players like OEL and Tyler Myers.

 

Quinn Hughes at least has help next year, in Hronek.

 

With Demko healthy, it’s like winning ten more games in a season, and or winning free agency.

 

So with a healthy Demko and now two top two defenders under 25 years of age, is this enough to build from witihin and avoid high priced free agents other than fan favourite Luke Schenn.

 

Because the market for defenders in this years free agency just hit a fever pitch. 
 

So like it or lump it, we are getting two amazing defenders that we lacked for most of last year.  Demko and Hronek with an expectation that a healthy OEL will play better than the injured OEL last year, like we expect with Demko.

 

We stole the March on the league with Hronek and then Columbus went all in, stealing two marches on the entire league, starting an arms race in the eastern conference.  I just hope CBJ is high like winners from casinos and on can’t lose streak, and trade the 3rd 0A and cap dump player like Adam Boqvist to Vancouver for JT Miller, Local hero and 11 0A and a prospect.

 

I think that if any club should be barred from spending to the nines this off season on buy high and sell low assets, I am happy it’s the Vancouver Canucks.

 

We have a history of excessive spending and we should have our credit cards cut up this year for sure.

 

So with some growth expected from prospects like Woo and hopefully Rathbone, and with OEL healthy and Tyler Myers safely in a 4th spot, only holding it until a younger player takes it from him, or we trade he at the TDL for a 3rd, this defence is what it is, get used to it and realize that with Demko healthy we should have an expectation of being a playoff team.

 

By adding Hronek and OEL healthy and Tyler Myers not expected to be the top RHD ever again, I think we have a better team than spoken too and with our offensive depth, reason to be optimistic for next year, and please someone take the credit card away from Alvin.

 

Freeze it in a block of ice at least.

 

Phat Fingers.

It doesn’t matter if it’s enough or not. There is no other option to upgrade. We are too Cap’d out and don’t have enough sweetners to lose bloated contracts (we need to keep that 11OA).  
 

All we can do is hope that all the things you mention pan out 

[Gawdzukes]

8 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Bringing in Hronek, Bear, Johannson and Hirose while D-Petey, Juulsen and Woo made progress was a nice step in the right direction on the back end.  
 

If we do anything I hope it’s in the bargain bin while we let Tocchet, Foote and Gonchar see what we have.

 

Maybe we have to buy out OEL next offseason but we can’t replace him yet.  We also can’t replace Myers until he’s gone.  Unless an absolute steal of a deal presents itself I can’t see much happening.  Maybe a bigger veteran 3LD on the cheap but as it stands the right side is full and the top 4 on the left side is also occupado- whether you like the pieces or not. 

 

 

So, the 11OA for Carlo? Or maybe we take a big run at Peeke - though the 11 is a huge overpay there and we don’t have a 2nd. I’d like either of those guys but that criteria is haaaard to fill - and even the two I named have some warts.

I'd rather keep 11. Trade next year's first if need be. We also need to clear cap in order to bring one of those guys in. I'd save money by cutting Bear myself and go shopping at the bargain bin like you suggest.

[DrJockitch]

We need a big mobile right hand D to play with Hughes. Doesn’t need to score. 
We need a big RHD to play third pairing with Hirose. 
We need to move on from Tyler Myers. 
We are stuck on OEL and hope he looks like a 2 year older version of the player from 2 years ago not a 1 year older version of last years player. That player still isn’t great since won’t be seeing PP duties but is almost serviceable. 
We have no cap or room to do any of that unless something bigger happens. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

We need a big mobile right hand D to play with Hughes. Doesn’t need to score. 
We need a big RHD to play third pairing with Hirose. 
We need to move on from Tyler Myers. 
We are stuck on OEL and hope he looks like a 2 year older version of the player from 2 years ago not a 1 year older version of last years player. That player still isn’t great since won’t be seeing PP duties but is almost serviceable. 
We have no cap or room to do any of that unless something bigger happens. 

Bigger like buying out OEL? 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Alflives

[chon derry]

3 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

We need a big mobile right hand D to play with Hughes. Doesn’t need to score. 
We need a big RHD to play third pairing with Hirose. 
We need to move on from Tyler Myers. 
We are stuck on OEL and hope he looks like a 2 year older version of the player from 2 years ago not a 1 year older version of last years player. That player still isn’t great since won’t be seeing PP duties but is almost serviceable. 
We have no cap or room to do any of that unless something bigger happens. 

Acquiring hronek drops Myers need to play in the every situation role he was being expected. I don’t expect hronek to  change OELs game with reduced expectation. Simply because of his position. But maybe?  Bigger players tire Faster. Seeing Myers flop around in the slot area was pardon the pun getting tiresome. But that’s exactly what it was. Him playing to the point of exhaustion.  Adding hronek will alleviate some of that. ( fingers crossed) 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Let Bear go, or throw him in a trade pkg with 1 or 2 of our pricey W's..Opening more AAV

 

Sign Tree & Schenn

 

Good to go

 

edit: Also hopefully Pucker Toolman remains LTIR. Myers, possibly waive if necc..but don't pay any assets to eject

Edited June 11, 2023 by Nuxfanabroad

[DrJockitch]

Just now, Alflives said:

Bigger like buying out OEL? 

I don’t know what it is. We all debate it here with no foreknowledge. We are in a tough situation and everything you read says we are looking hard to clear cap. 
It is a lot of years of not a huge cap penalty to buy him out. It is a small competitive handicap but it becomes a bigger issue because of the way we run things, always tight to the cap with very questionable cap management.  I think him moving to Robidas island is a bigger competitive disadvantage because the next 4 years no way we will ever be able to accrue cap space if he is LTIR. 
Tough balance, dead cap space for your entire term as a GM, handicapped at the deadline for 4 year of JTM’s prime because of a massive LTIR contract, or find a way for him to play down the lineup as an overpayed bottom pairing D that can step in on PP when everyone else injured and just eat the overpayment for 4 years.   I don’t know what the right answer is but I know they are going to come into this year and hope Hronek can make him functional. 
I think what we will see a few months into the season is Hughes-Hronek play on 32-35 minutes a night and OEL-Bear as a not great but not horrible second pairing. 

[Phat Fingers]

27 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

We need a big mobile right hand D to play with Hughes. Doesn’t need to score. 
We need a big RHD to play third pairing with Hirose. 
We need to move on from Tyler Myers. 
We are stuck on OEL and hope he looks like a 2 year older version of the player from 2 years ago not a 1 year older version of last years player. That player still isn’t great since won’t be seeing PP duties but is almost serviceable. 
We have no cap or room to do any of that unless something bigger happens. 

Isn’t Hronek at least addressing some if this? 

[Phat Fingers]

1 hour ago, ilduce39 said:

Bringing in Hronek, Bear, Johannson and Hirose while D-Petey, Juulsen and Woo made progress was a nice step in the right direction on the back end.  
 

If we do anything I hope it’s in the bargain bin while we let Tocchet, Foote and Gonchar see what we have.

 

Maybe we have to buy out OEL next offseason but we can’t replace him yet.  We also can’t replace Myers until he’s gone.  Unless an absolute steal of a deal presents itself I can’t see much happening.  Maybe a bigger veteran 3LD on the cheap but as it stands the right side is full and the top 4 on the left side is also occupado- whether you like the pieces or not. 

 

 

So, the 11OA for Carlo? Or maybe we take a big run at Peeke - though the 11 is a huge overpay there and we don’t have a 2nd. I’d like either of those guys but that criteria is haaaard to fill - and even the two I named have some warts.

Johanson is Sweden is a very interesting prospect as he fits the 215 6’4 RHD that doesn’t need to score, and Woo fits the physicality of that size and weight, even if he is a wee bit smaller.

 

I need to see more from Juuslen, but I do think that his play is why Boroughs hasn’t been resigned yet.

 

If anything I think the only plan is to bring in Schenn and build the core with Hughes and Hronek leading the way, and if OEL plays like shit this season while healthy then yes, buy him out, but I liked his play the year prior.

 

Myers is not nearly as dangerous to us in a 4th spot instead of number 2 when OEL was out, I wonder if the club has the money for Ethan Bear, but I would love for him to come back.  He is a nice player to have in the mix and can play up if need be.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Phat Fingers

[Gawdzukes]

3 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

Johanson is Sweden is a very interesting prospect as he fits the 215 6’4 RHD that doesn’t need to score, and Woo fits the physicality of that size and weight, even if he is a wee bit smaller.

 

I need to see more from Juuslen, but I do think that his play is why Boroughs hasn’t been resigned yet.

 

If anything I think the only plan is to bring in Schenn and build the core with Hughes and Hronek leading the way, and if OEL plays like shit this season while healthy then yes, buy him out, but I liked his play the year prior.

 

Myers is not nearly as dangerous to us in a 4th spot instead of number 2 when OEL was out, I wonder if the club has the money for Ethan Bear, but I would love for him to come back.  He is a nice player to have in the mix and can play up if need be.

Johannson is more like 6'1 180 isn't he?

[Phat Fingers]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

Johannson is more like 6'1 180 isn't he?

I thought he was 6’3 to 6’4 and about 205.  
 

he is 21 and they grow so quickly at that age.

 

From the film I watched, he looked big on the Euro Ice, which I usually attribute to size and I go by my eye test, as a old medic, it’s hard not too.

 

But I watched him box out guys really well and did a lot of one armed moves to push guys out side and away from the net that really reminded me and a young two eyed RHD Matty Ohlund.

Decent wing span and very hard to get around in the Swedish Elite League from the film I watched.

 

 

 

 

[chon derry]

25 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Let Bear go, or throw him in a trade pkg with 1 or 2 of our pricey W's..Opening more AAV

 

Sign Tree & Schenn

 

Good to go

 

edit: Also hopefully Pucker Toolman remains LTIR. Myers, possibly waive if necc..but don't pay any assets to eject

Bear is cost effective. He simply doesn’t make enough money for the offset cap savings to make a difference , the cap savings would be insignificant weighed against losing his usefulness in all situations. Not in a sustainable way but in a pinch for sure. “Hamhuis  lite” 

[Phat Fingers]

Just now, chon derry said:

Bear is cost effective. He simply doesn’t make enough money for the offset cap savings to make a difference , the cap savings would be insignificant weighed against losing his usefulness in all situations. Not in a sustainable way but in a pinch for sure. “Hamhuis  lite” 

A lighter hammer is still better than no hammer at all…

[chon derry]

Just now, Phat Fingers said:

A lighter hammer is still better than no hammer at all…

He’s always positionally aware. Getting rid of him only puts them in a position of looking for a replacement. I hope he stays. He’s a good bottom pairing player. 

[Phat Fingers]

Just now, Phat Fingers said:

A lighter hammer is still better than no hammer at all…

Chon Cherry, 

 

So you on board for a Right Side that has Hronek Bear/Myers and Juuslen/Woo on it?

 

With Hughes OEL and Bear/Juuslen/Rathbone on the left?  With Bear and Juuslen being used as the journey men to shelter our future players into the line up?  
 

With OEL and Myers moved or bought out when we have a system of guys coming up.

 

When you go out and hire Adam Foote and Sergei Gonchar, I tells me that the defence is getting a real make over in training and development.

 

I don’t see the high risk, buy high sell low option that got us Tyler Myers at 6m per season is the best way to fix the problem…

 

But Schenn is a great role model too and you gotta think that Tochett loves Schenn.  

[Rick_theRyper]

Ride out Myers hope him and a (Healthy) OEL regain some form. I think Myers will have his best season as a Canuck as it's his contract year.. seems to work that way. I would let Bear walk as I don't think he brings quite enough considering health issues. I would rather see Juulsen get that 3rd spot and Schenn is a maybe still, if he does come back he can split that 3/4 spot. Let G Breeze step up that guy is smooth peanut butter man. A few gafs here and there but overall I think he made a case to earn that 7/8 guy. Next year or the TDL when Myers can be moved (unless sooner) is when we should be able to replace him with Hughes' long term guy. Hoping we can draft Reinbacher see how that goes. But start the season something like this

 

Hughes Hronek

OEL Myers

Breeze/ Schenn/Juulsen 

 

Bones/Woo

 

Really not that bad if that 2nd pair can eat some mins responsibly. would not be surprised to it myself. Myers is going to want another contract after this year and OEL is a pro just looked slow as hell last year. Hope that was just his injury. If not then they're probably buying him out for sure next year. 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Rick_theRyper