2023-2024 Defence. Was the Hronek Trade enough?

[Canuck Surfer]

9 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

This was my summary after adding Hronek.  To me Hronek replaces Bear with a better version of him.  Don't think we should try to go with Bear in top 4, that gives us a top 4 with 3 guys 6ft and under and a muffin in OEL.

Given a minimum of 2 undersized D in top 4 we also need size on the bottom pairing especially if Hirose is going to be the left D.  Myers by default will likely be in that spot as don't think he is tradable this offseason.

D still needs overhaul.

We need Bear if we are to broom Myers after paying his bonus! 

 

Apparently Bear is off to have surgery, an injury sustained at the WC's. It would be advisable to have a handshake deal with him for when he comes available. Which is supposed to be after the season starts.

 

 

The way I read Cap Friendly is we have just under $5.1M to spend once LTIR candidates (Poolman & Pearson) are declared.  But that is with a roster of 12 forwards, 5 D & 1 G.  So it would take juggling callups just to declare an opening roster. Then we have just that to sign 6 players for a full roster. Being able to wait with Bear is, kind of, a luxury. We won't be making any acquisitions unless someone is moved before Myers.

 

[Sativika]

As usual. Lazy me can't even be bothered to peruse two pages of this thread. So.............

 

...........NOPE!!!!!!      

The acquisition of Hronek, as timely or un-timely it may be, is all around a dire need for our D. BUT, we do need to get Bear signed.  Bear's gonna be useful up and down the three pairings going forward. He's not in the class of star defensman, but he's got some skills useful to our line up.

 

I like what I saw from Hirose and perhaps he'll be a full roster add in the next season. There's obviously some of the farm guys vying to make the grade; those that we've seen thus far, and Woo, McWard, Boner looking in. 

 

By and large though, unless the farm boys show us something great at camp or pre-season, Hronek's trade is not enough. As been repeated ad nauseam, a 6'3"+, 200lbs.+ puck moving D-man or two would be great. Also a big 3rd line centre and a couple of more Joshua types would be cool too.

[Phat Fingers]

I want to thank all the people who are having a discussion on this thread.

 

the general sentiment that I fall in line with is, ‘not enough, but better than it was.’ is shared.

 

Hronek is still an unknown quantity and he is never going to be a big Physical D Man.

 

But his skills and shot are supposed to be good enough to carry a pairing, but we had two games to assess his play. 
 

It’s ironic that we have a 6’7 240 ish player in Myers who plays the right side…

 

But he ain’t the one we need, and neither is Like Schenn, but for a year and in limited minutes, if he comes back.

 

Talk of trading Garland for nada, and I say heck yeah!

 

and I agree with others that a hand shake deal wit Bear is maybe a good thing, a silver lining for the club and it’s cap hell.

 

could we waive Garland as see if anyone takes him? 
 

He isn’t worth losing his best replacement at the same time in Hoglander and he is a good player, and really Zona should claim him, he scores a ton in Zona and or meaningless games. Lol

 

 

[BigTramFan]

On 6/12/2023 at 9:04 AM, *Buzzsaw* said:

Canucks need a big top 4 D-man to play opposite Hughes.

 

Should be minimum 6'3" 215 lbs and 25 years or younger.

Punched those exact requirements into Capfriendly. Only one active player fits all those and its Luke Prokop. He has never played an NHL game. Better change your requirements I think.

[Baggins]

5 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

I want to thank all the people who are having a discussion on this thread.

 

the general sentiment that I fall in line with is, ‘not enough, but better than it was.’ is shared.

 

Hronek is still an unknown quantity and he is never going to be a big Physical D Man.

 

But his skills and shot are supposed to be good enough to carry a pairing, but we had two games to assess his play. 
 

It’s ironic that we have a 6’7 240 ish player in Myers who plays the right side…

 

But he ain’t the one we need, and neither is Like Schenn, but for a year and in limited minutes, if he comes back.

 

Talk of trading Garland for nada, and I say heck yeah!

 

and I agree with others that a hand shake deal wit Bear is maybe a good thing, a silver lining for the club and it’s cap hell.

 

could we waive Garland as see if anyone takes him? 
 

He isn’t worth losing his best replacement at the same time in Hoglander and he is a good player, and really Zona should claim him, he scores a ton in Zona and or meaningless games. Lol

 

 

Going by Hronek's Detroit stats (60 gp) in hits per 60 minutes he'll be the most physical in the top 4 on our team as things stand. D-men that out-hit him per 60 minutes played here last season were Schenn (gone), Juulsen (12 gp + ufa), Burroughs (ufa), and Stillman (gone). He was more physical in Detroit than either OEL or Myers here. He was also more physical in Detroit this past season than Hamhuis or Bieksa in 10/11.

[ilduce39]

6 hours ago, Phat Fingers said:

I want to thank all the people who are having a discussion on this thread.

 

the general sentiment that I fall in line with is, ‘not enough, but better than it was.’ is shared.

 

Hronek is still an unknown quantity and he is never going to be a big Physical D Man.

 

But his skills and shot are supposed to be good enough to carry a pairing, but we had two games to assess his play. 
 

It’s ironic that we have a 6’7 240 ish player in Myers who plays the right side…

 

But he ain’t the one we need, and neither is Like Schenn, but for a year and in limited minutes, if he comes back.

 

Talk of trading Garland for nada, and I say heck yeah!

 

and I agree with others that a hand shake deal wit Bear is maybe a good thing, a silver lining for the club and it’s cap hell.

 

could we waive Garland as see if anyone takes him? 
 

He isn’t worth losing his best replacement at the same time in Hoglander and he is a good player, and really Zona should claim him, he scores a ton in Zona and or meaningless games. Lol

 

 

Whenever I see this thread I have this thought, so I’ll share it:

 

It’s not good enough to win a cup, but it’s good enough for next year.  
 

If we clear space, maybe we add one more veteran D.  Maybe two if we move Myers.  But I’m happy enough to see if any of the younger guys can carve out a role on the bottom pair and we really need to see it OEL can bounce back.  

If he doesn’t, I think 2LD becomes as important (and probably easier to find) than 1RD to play with Hughes, who is already dominating without it.

[Phat Fingers]

Funny, with the OEL buyout, as a guy surviving on the edge with less than 700 a month, I have to stop rational thought at OEL getting 20 Million for not playing and how happy everyone is.

 

they play divorce the ‘Old Way’ in Northern Nova Scotia,

 

I have shared experiences with the survivors of the Salem Witch Trials, so visit the East Coast, but for the love of sanity don’t buy in pretty remote ‘Village’ cause our east, the Village mentality is ‘Medieval’

 

Sorry, I don’t like to acknowledge my ‘dire straits’. Lol.  

 

The Sports Universe is way more fantasy than the Marvel Universe at times.

 

 But does it make the Hronek Trade better or worse?

 

do we have enough and or

 

done enough and or 

 

what is the pathway to getting an NHL defence not worse and or 

 

shallower than last year.

 

or does Alvin and Rutherford think that Tochett is satisfied with

 

Hughes Hronek

Rathbone Myers

Woo McWard?

 

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Phat Fingers

[EddieVedder]

10 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

Funny, with the OEL buyout, as a guy surviving on the edge with less than 700 a month, I have to stop rational thought at OEL getting 20 Million for not playing and how happy everyone is.

 

they play divorce the ‘Old Way’ in Northern Nova Scotia,

 

I have shared experiences with the survivors of the Salem Witch Trials, so visit the East Coast, but for the love of sanity don’t buy in pretty remote ‘Village’ cause our east, the Village mentality is ‘Medieval’

 

Sorry, I don’t like to acknowledge my ‘dire straits’. Lol.  

 

The Sports Universe is way more fantasy than the Marvel Universe at times.

 

 But does it make the Hronek Trade better or worse?

 

do we have enough and or

 

done enough and or 

 

what is the pathway to getting an NHL defence not worse and or 

 

shallower than last year.

 

or does Alvin and Rutherford think that Tochett is satisfied with

 

Hughes Hronek

Rathbone Myers

Woo McWard?

 

 

Neither Rathbone or mcward will ever be regular nhlers.  That defense is full of smurfs.  Alvin has no choice but to make some bold moves for the D this offseason 

[Phat Fingers]

1 minute ago, EddieVedder said:

Neither Rathbone or mcward will ever be regular nhlers.  That defense is full of smurfs.  Alvin has no choice but to make some bold moves for the D this offseason 

Yup.

 

but who?

 

 

[Fred65]

3 hours ago, EddieVedder said:

Neither Rathbone or mcward will ever be regular nhlers.  That defense is full of smurfs.  Alvin has no choice but to make some bold moves for the D this offseason 

McWard is 6'1"/195, hardly a smurf

[Canuck Surfer]

On 6/14/2023 at 12:06 PM, Baggins said:

Going by Hronek's Detroit stats (60 gp) in hits per 60 minutes he'll be the most physical in the top 4 on our team as things stand. D-men that out-hit him per 60 minutes played here last season were Schenn (gone), Juulsen (12 gp + ufa), Burroughs (ufa), and Stillman (gone). He was more physical in Detroit than either OEL or Myers here. He was also more physical in Detroit this past season than Hamhuis or Bieksa in 10/11.

I don't disagree.  I don't agree either?

 

Hits, do not mean obliterated, nor psychologically destroying the psyche of the opposition with your presence.  As a hit from Schenn might; added to the significant right handed punch to the mouth you might receive should u then complain!

 

Hronek is a great two way D.  Not as good as Hughes offensively, but still a definite weapon.  Also owning a more significant shot. Hronek is better defensively, and does engage physically, supply hits.  It's not his forte.  He is neither a crease clearing bastard? One stereotyped type of defensive D.  Nor a smothering & hounding defensive presence, though closer to it. The other type, which also fearlessly blocks shots; the Tanev type. You just have to credit at his size & speed, how hard he works at his defensive game.

 

What he is, is what OEL was supposed to be...

 

 

 

We still need a defensive stalwart, probably TWO with one of each type mentioned.

 

[DownUndaCanuck]

We need 2 top-4 physical guys to make this a playoff defence. We need one to make it sort of respectable. It's all about the quality of your top-4 in the playoffs.

 

Myers doesn't cut any playoff team's top 4 but he probably makes it as a 5th or 6th guy, so it's as simple as that.

 

I think we'll get one top 4 guy this offseason to replace OEL, we simply have to, but the second one is what will separate us from the true contenders. Also if we don't get 2, we're one injury away from Burroughs playing 20+ minutes a night.

[Phat Fingers]

Could there be a Defensive Draft eligible player ready to step into bottom six minutes?

 

Smiashev?  Live News updates, The Wagner army is attempting a Coup in Russia as I post this.

 

this will change the narrative at the draft this year.
 

And what player could we get if the club went wild at FA and fixed the defence before 3rd line Center?

 

We have some wild cards in McWard, Woo and the Swede kid that we have that was a former first by the Wild.

 

they all could take some minutes on the lower pairs and take physical abuse and also return it.

 

but with a chance that some Russian players might Mogilny this draft….?

 

It at least makes all of us understand that we can’t even start to predict this draft after Bedard, and this could open up opportunities to fix our defence.

 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Phat Fingers said:

Could there be a Defensive Draft eligible player ready to step into bottom six minutes?

 

Smiashev?  Live News updates, The Wagner army is attempting a Coup in Russia as I post this.

 

this will change the narrative at the draft this year.
 

And what player could we get if the club went wild at FA and fixed the defence before 3rd line Center?

 

We have some wild cards in McWard, Woo and the Swede kid that we have that was a former first by the Wild.

 

they all could take some minutes on the lower pairs and take physical abuse and also return it.

 

but with a chance that some Russian players might Mogilny this draft….?

 

It at least makes all of us understand that we can’t even start to predict this draft after Bedard, and this could open up opportunities to fix our defence.

 

 

Shimashev could step into our lineup for sure. 

[DrJockitch]

Looks like some very big changes will be coming in Russia over the next little while. Who knows if players will be seeking asylum or not. Could be quick leadership change could be protracted civil war. 
If I was a Russian player at the draft I would have my agent finding a way to hide me after the draft. 

[DrJockitch]

Oh and back to the OP now that the OEL situation is resolved. 
We are nowhere close to good enough on D or at C. It is still early and the next week should be crazy.

If all we do with the cap space from the OEL buyout is buy some middling UFAs though this off-season will have been a disaster.   Weaponize the cap space, shake a young C or D or 2 free. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

10 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I don't disagree.  I don't agree either?

 

Hits, do not mean obliterated, nor psychologically destroying the psyche of the opposition with your presence.  As a hit from Schenn might; added to the significant right handed punch to the mouth you might receive should u then complain!

 

Hronek is a great two way D.  Not as good as Hughes offensively, but still a definite weapon.  Also owning a more significant shot. Hronek is better defensively, and does engage physically, supply hits.  It's not his forte.  He is neither a crease clearing bastard? One stereotyped type of defensive D.  Nor a smothering & hounding defensive presence, though closer to it. The other type, which also fearlessly blocks shots; the Tanev type. You just have to credit at his size & speed, how hard he works at his defensive game.

 

What he is, is what OEL was supposed to be...

 

 

 

We still need a defensive stalwart, probably TWO with one of each type mentioned.

 

Hits are too subjective and/or not consistant among those that "tabulate those numbers".  Unless one is evaluating the numbers from just one team (comparing players to each other on that one team).  One would assume there would be at least a more consistant tabulation of the numbers in that specific situation.

 

Just my opinion of course.

[Gawdzukes]

On 6/12/2023 at 6:13 PM, Canuck Surfer said:

We need Bear if we are to broom Myers after paying his bonus! 

 

Apparently Bear is off to have surgery, an injury sustained at the WC's. It would be advisable to have a handshake deal with him for when he comes available. Which is supposed to be after the season starts.

 

 

The way I read Cap Friendly is we have just under $5.1M to spend once LTIR candidates (Poolman & Pearson) are declared.  But that is with a roster of 12 forwards, 5 D & 1 G.  So it would take juggling callups just to declare an opening roster. Then we have just that to sign 6 players for a full roster. Being able to wait with Bear is, kind of, a luxury. We won't be making any acquisitions unless someone is moved before Myers.

 

Bear sucks. We should be staying far away from this player. Especially with a major injury, it makes no sense.

[coolboarder]

If Hronek can handle 20 minutes along with Hughes and dominates and 3-6 holding their own with sheltered minutes, I think it might be enough.  PP has to score at 30% rate and PK being improved and our D prospects are ready to step in with no injures.  We still need one more proven D depth in case of injures.  We could easily make a trade if bulk of our wingers have improved more than so last year for some D depth in season movement.  The most important thing is that the anchor of OEL is gone.  I have seen quite a lot of improvement by D after OEL went down due to injury and bought out helps us to move on rather than wondering if OEL will ever bounce back.

[Nucker 67]

I was watching the "Button Mock Draft" on TSN earlier, and he has the Canucks taking Willander at #11, saying he could be a very good D partner for Hughes. I'm not sure how long it would take Willander to finish up in Sweden and become NHL ready. 3 years?  Simashev looks like he could step into the lineup in a year. Quinn can play anywhere though, so does it really matter if he's paired with a RD?

 

Simashev - Hughes

Soucy (e.g.) - Hronek