[GDT] ‘Tis the Dog Days of Summer, Are we Thinging Before Training Camp?

[eeeeergh]

1 hour ago, wildcam said:

I think Canucks will sign one of these 4 older D men.

1. Dumoulin 31 - 6'4 -210 LD-- big stay at home guy AVG 20:25 last season-- Would be good in Vancouver.

    ( 2 or 3 yrs X 2.5 million)

2. Ian Cole -34-- 6'1 -- 225 - LD --- 17--19 mins--  2 yrs - 1.8 million

3.Holl -- 31 - 6'4 -220  RD - 2 yrs 1.8 Million

4.Schenn 31. - 6'4 -220 RD  2 yrs X 1.8 million 

 

Makes sense and I’m happy with it 

 

especially if they draft a potential top-4 d man this year, we’ve got some young guys that can step in a couple of years 

 

[DrJockitch]

Looks like no thing tonight

Maybe tomorrow we thing before the thing. 

[GhostsOf1994]

53 minutes ago, Provost said:

Signing O’Reilly doesn’t sound like a “rebuild”.

trading Miller for picks, the 2nd best ppg on the team and 2c for magic beans is.... a rebuild? those picks are most likely 2-4 years away at making any impact at the nhl level. 

 

if the trading of Miller is not a rebuild, what is it then?

 

A re-tool for example would be what Winnepeg just did today with trading Dubois(tool) for Vilardi, Kupari, Iafallo (similar but different tools) and a pick.

 

positions of weaknesses (2 young centers, a cap dump fwd, a pick) a 2c.

 

 

keep Miller maybe sign ROR for 3c

 

 

Kuzmenko Petey Beauvillier 

Mikheyev Miller Garland 

Hoglander ROR Podkolzin 

 

[GhostsOf1994]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

Because we are going to trade him. 

[Provost]

2 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

trading Miller for picks, the 2nd best ppg on the team and 2c for magic beans is.... a rebuild? those picks are most likely 2-4 years away at making any impact at the nhl level. 

 

if the trading of Miller is not a rebuild, what is it then?

 

A re-tool for example would be what Winnepeg just did today with trading Dubois(tool) for Vilardi, Kupari, Iafallo (similar but different tools) and a pick.

 

positions of weaknesses (2 young centers, a cap dump fwd, a pick) a 2c.

 

 

keep Miller maybe sign ROR for 3c

 

 

Kuzmenko Petey Beauvillier 

Mikheyev Miller Garland 

Hoglander ROR Podkolzin 

 

Trade Miller, sign another veteran to replace him and free up some cap dollars to re-allocate to other positions of need like defence.

 

That isn’t a rebuild.

 

I don’t know if this has occurred to you, Petterson may become reluctant to re-sign if we keep trotting out the same losing roster over and over while hoping for magically different results.

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

[cripplereh]

43 minutes ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

Ohhhhh YAHHH!

[GhostsOf1994]

16 minutes ago, Provost said:

Trade Miller, sign another veteran to replace him and free up some cap dollars to re-allocate to other positions of need like defence.

 

That isn’t a rebuild.

 

I don’t know if this has occurred to you, Petterson may become reluctant to re-sign if we keep trotting out the same losing roster over and over while hoping for magically different results.

look at the starting roster from last season to now, Horvat, OEL, Schenn, Dickinson are gone.

 

maybe Bear, Burroughs, Dermott aswell, also Poolman & Pearson careers are likely over.

 

theres potentially 9 players off the top of my head gone from last year.

 

new faces of Hronek, Beauvillier, Raty, Mcward, Hirose, maybe Karlsson, Klimovich, Rathbone, Mcdonagh suprise at camp.

 

Hoglander should be ready for the main squad.

 

Looks like Silovs may have the lead over Martin/ Delia or whoever else I missed

 

all the canucks need to do is replace the losses with as good or better players.

 

point here is that there's lots of change to the roster and the farm.

 

 

 

 

are the Canucks on paper better or worse from 2022/23 to 2023/24?

 

OEL buyout says they're not waiting to compete, we'll take the cap penalty as we can get a better replacement and still have extra cap to spend.

 

OEL @ 7M+ or buy him out and try to sign Soucy/Graves for under 5? next year cap goes up, Myers, Beauvillier & Poolman are off the books, Petey & Hronek new deals would be kicking in.

 

there's no top center prospect in the system nor free agents that would replace what miller brings vs what we might eventually get with draft picks. Raty is the closest and his absolute ceiling maybe is borderline 2c.

 

I'm not against adding ror as 3c, he's not a top point producer and has never been at or over a ppg. trading Miller for picks is the wrong move, just creates another hole in the roster and the team weaker. 

 

 

from Canucksarmy:

 

"In a rebuild, you’re getting rid of your core players — often ones who are good, but can’t help your team in its current form — by trading them to contending teams looking to push themselves over the edge."

 

 

from the athletic:

 

"A core can be defined a few ways. It can include a combination of the faces of a franchise, best players, highest-paid skaters, aging veterans and up-and-coming stars. While it varies, that generally makes up the centerpiece of a team, and the rest of the salary-cap"

 

 

 

[GhostsOf1994]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

 

[gizmo2337]

No thing is going to happen. 

....

Again.

[spook007]

7 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

Breaking Canucks sign Milan Lucic to 5x5.5 and Carson Soucy 7x8.5, Buy out JT Miller 

.....and CDC craches....

[Odd.]

1 hour ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

look at the starting roster from last season to now, Horvat, OEL, Schenn, Dickinson are gone.

 

maybe Bear, Burroughs, Dermott aswell, also Poolman & Pearson careers are likely over.

 

theres potentially 9 players off the top of my head gone from last year.

 

new faces of Hronek, Beauvillier, Raty, Mcward, Hirose, maybe Karlsson, Klimovich, Rathbone, Mcdonagh suprise at camp.

 

Hoglander should be ready for the main squad.

 

Looks like Silovs may have the lead over Martin/ Delia or whoever else I missed

 

all the canucks need to do is replace the losses with as good or better players.

 

point here is that there's lots of change to the roster and the farm.

 

 

 

 

are the Canucks on paper better or worse from 2022/23 to 2023/24?

 

OEL buyout says they're not waiting to compete, we'll take the cap penalty as we can get a better replacement and still have extra cap to spend.

 

OEL @ 7M+ or buy him out and try to sign Soucy/Graves for under 5? next year cap goes up, Myers, Beauvillier & Poolman are off the books, Petey & Hronek new deals would be kicking in.

 

there's no top center prospect in the system nor free agents that would replace what miller brings vs what we might eventually get with draft picks. Raty is the closest and his absolute ceiling maybe is borderline 2c.

 

I'm not against adding ror as 3c, he's not a top point producer and has never been at or over a ppg. trading Miller for picks is the wrong move, just creates another hole in the roster and the team weaker. 

 

 

from Canucksarmy:

 

"In a rebuild, you’re getting rid of your core players — often ones who are good, but can’t help your team in its current form — by trading them to contending teams looking to push themselves over the edge."

 

 

from the athletic:

 

"A core can be defined a few ways. It can include a combination of the faces of a franchise, best players, highest-paid skaters, aging veterans and up-and-coming stars. While it varies, that generally makes up the centerpiece of a team, and the rest of the salary-cap"

 

 

 

The best fit for Miller is Colorado if a hypothetical trade were to happen.

 

If Avs offered us 27, 31, 37, and Manson, I’m taking that 100% of the time. In this draft, each 1st rounder is worth more than other drafts just because of how stacked the top 40 is. 
 

Selecting 8 draft picks all in the top 120, including 3 firsts, is a step towards the future. By the time these guys are ready, Pettersson and Hughes will be 27-28, perfect for the cup window. They’ll be true leaders of this team and are of the appropriate age where their experience and poise alone will win them valuable playoff games.

 

With a solid developmental plan, it’s reasonable to expect at least 4 of the 8 become contributing factors 3-4 years from now, on cheap ELC’s, influx of youth. They can also be used as valuable trade pieces for win now players if the fit is right.

 

The team we have now Miller or not is barely good enough to crack a wildcard spot. ROR is a Conn Smythe and cup champion that is good at all facets of the game. He provides veteran presence, experience, and a reliable 2 way game that could potentially make us competitive while our prospects from this draft grow and develop. 
 

The problem with the Benning regime was he just plucked players here and there and assembled a mishmash of a team with long contracts and little cohesion. This batch of prospects will be able to flourish along the same timeframe, just as our current core guys grow into their later 20’s and well into their prime.

 

Allvin shopped Miller at the TDL and almost pulled a trade where we could’ve gotten 2 firsts. Nothing out there except meaningless team promos suggest Miller is a core member of this team at the time of this post.
 

 

 

[spook007]

4 hours ago, .Naslund said:

I swear half of the users on here have Tourette’s or short term memory loss. “Trade mIller, trade miller blah blah blah trade miller!!!” Lol. It’s been very strongly insinuated that we’re building around Hughes and Petey. 

Remember a few years back, when Tanev was in just about every trade proposal, because he was too old and injury prone to extend....

[Petey Castiglione]

9 minutes ago, Odd. said:

The best fit for Miller is Colorado if a hypothetical trade were to happen.

 

If Avs offered us 27, 31, 37, and Manson, I’m taking that 100% of the time. In this draft, each 1st rounder is worth more than other drafts just because of how stacked the top 40 is. 
 

Selecting 8 draft picks all in the top 120, including 3 firsts, is a step towards the future. By the time these guys are ready, Pettersson and Hughes will be 27-28, perfect for the cup window. They’ll be true leaders of this team and are of the appropriate age where their experience and poise alone will win them valuable playoff games.

 

With a solid developmental plan, it’s reasonable to expect at least 4 of the 8 become contributing factors 3-4 years from now, on cheap ELC’s, influx of youth. They can also be used as valuable trade pieces for win now players if the fit is right.

 

The team we have now Miller or not is barely good enough to crack a wildcard spot. ROR is a Conn Smythe and cup champion that is good at all facets of the game. He provides veteran presence, experience, and a reliable 2 way game that could potentially make us competitive while our prospects from this draft grow and develop. 
 

The problem with the Benning regime was he just plucked players here and there and assembled a mishmash of a team with long contracts and little cohesion. This batch of prospects will be able to flourish along the same timeframe, just as our current core guys grow into their later 20’s and well into their prime.

 

Allvin shopped Miller at the TDL and almost pulled a trade where we could’ve gotten 2 firsts. Nothing out there except meaningless team promos suggest Miller is a core member of this team at the time of this post.
 

 

 

I like this idea.  We could even bundle up some picks to get another 1st rounder in the late teens.  Pick a center at 11 and a dman with the late teens and we're laughing to the bank with potentially another 2nd rounder.  All depends if O'Reilly will come here and there seems to be at lease some interest on our side.

 

We'd then have even more cap space to upgrade the D and get a good 3C.

[Odd.]

A lot of people don’t understand how young Pettersson and Hughes still are.

 

Majority of the cup winners the last 10 years, the average age of core players is between 28-33 when they won their first cup.
 

There’s a difference between icing a team good enough to make the playoffs and a team that can compete for the cup. We’re not competing for the cup anyway for the next 3-4 years, why not build towards that future, ice a team that can make some noise come April for now, and have our core guys now be the ones to lead this team when our futures are ready to start becoming contributing factors for us.

 

The guys who we draft tomorrow, they’ll be Hughes and Pettersson’s playoff bubble age in 3-4 years. Imagine Pettersson and Hughes had core leaders back then, not having to be thrusted into the spotlight, being able to just freely play their game. Pettersson and Hughes can bear it so our future don’t have to. Hell both of them won’t even be 30 when these influx of prospects, if development is good, start becoming contributing factors.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Odd.

[Odd.]

Hell if we decided to trade down to Nashville and grab an extra 2nd rounder, that’s 9 picks in the first 120 picks and 7 in the top 80.

 

9 picks in a deep draft. All you have to do is trade Miller and trade down 4 spots. You’ve set up the future of this franchise that has 3 core members in their young 20’s at each position, better off than 90% of rebuilding teams, and you didn’t sell off the entire team to do it. 
 

Sign Barbashev and Ryan O Reilly to replace Miller’s production, and you can even still ice a more balanced team (probably even better) to make some

noise around April. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Odd.

[Provost]

1 hour ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

look at the starting roster from last season to now, Horvat, OEL, Schenn, Dickinson are gone.

 

maybe Bear, Burroughs, Dermott aswell, also Poolman & Pearson careers are likely over.

 

theres potentially 9 players off the top of my head gone from last year.

 

new faces of Hronek, Beauvillier, Raty, Mcward, Hirose, maybe Karlsson, Klimovich, Rathbone, Mcdonagh suprise at camp.

 

Hoglander should be ready for the main squad.

 

Looks like Silovs may have the lead over Martin/ Delia or whoever else I missed

 

all the canucks need to do is replace the losses with as good or better players.

 

point here is that there's lots of change to the roster and the farm.

 

You may need to see a doctor from stretching that far… 9 players, yeesh. You named a bunch of players that are either not NHL players, didn’t play for us last season, or will still be in the organization as changes.  Wild predictions of unlikely events that may happen in the future is not really a good basis for an argument.

 

Dickenson wasn’t there last season, he was traded before opening night

Dermott played 11 games

Poolman played 3 games 

Pearson played 14 games

 

Those players weren’t part of the roster, or played very little last year… and will likely not play or play little this year, so that is no change.  The roster on the ice will be remarkably similar to the next iteration, was was remarkably similar to the roster from the year before.

 

Raty, Hirose, McWard, Karlsson, Klimovich, Rathbone, McDonagh don’t count as changes either.  Most of them played little or no time in the NHL last season and will play little or no time in the NHL this season, barring fringe time as injury call ups or depth players.

 

The only material difference between between the roster that was terrible last year and what (so far) we plan on icing next year is swapping Horvat for Hronek.  
 

We have removed Schenn, Bear, and OEL and not yet replaced them.

 

The other material difference could be getting Mikheyev back, but that is assuming we don’t lose another equivalent player to injury to even things out.

There has been no major surgery as indicated is needed, and no changes that will garner an extra 8-10 wins over the season.

 

Horvat out and Beauvillier in is a downgrade at forward.

 

OEL, Schenn, and Bear out, and Hronek in doesn’t address our defence woes.  We needed two top four D, and we still need two top four D.  Even assuming Hronek is better than any of those guys (and can stay healthy), we have less depth.  The kids and fringe guys aren’t moving the needle.

 

 

[RWJC]

3 minutes ago, Provost said:

You may need to see a doctor from stretching that far… 9 players, yeesh. You named a bunch of players that are either not NHL players, didn’t play for us last season, or will still be in the organization as changes.  Wild predictions of unlikely events that may happen in the future is not really a good basis for an argument.

 

Dickenson wasn’t there last season, he was traded before opening night

Dermott played 11 games

Poolman played 3 games 

Pearson played 14 games

 

Those players weren’t part of the roster, or played very little last year… and will likely not play or play little this year, so that is no change.  The roster on the ice will be remarkably similar to the next iteration, was was remarkably similar to the roster from the year before.

 

Raty, Hirose, McWard, Karlsson, Klimovich, Rathbone, McDonagh don’t count as changes either.  Most of them played little or no time in the NHL last season and will play little or no time in the NHL this season, barring fringe time as injury call ups or depth players.

 

The only material difference between between the roster that was terrible last year and what (so far) we plan on icing next year is swapping Horvat for Hronek.  
 

We have removed Schenn, Bear, and OEL and not yet replaced them.

 

The other material difference could be getting Mikheyev back, but that is assuming we don’t lose another equivalent player to injury to even things out.

There has been no major surgery as indicated is needed, and no changes that will garner an extra 8-10 wins over the season.

 

Horvat out and Beauvillier in is a downgrade at forward.

 

OEL, Schenn, and Bear out, and Hronek in doesn’t address our defence woes.  We needed two top four D, and we still need two top four D.  Even assuming Hronek is better than any of those guys (and can stay healthy), we have less depth.  The kids and fringe guys aren’t moving the needle.

 

 

You do realize the playoffs just ended and offseason’s just beginning?
We also just created some real flexibility and are obviously about to make major adjustments. Do you expect major surgery while the playoffs are underway?
Projecting/speculating next season’s “outcomes” based on the current roster of this club is an unfair and premature critique, imho  

[Provost]

15 minutes ago, RWJC said:

You do realize the playoffs just ended and offseason’s just beginning?
We also just created some real flexibility and are obviously about to make major adjustments. Do you expect major surgery while the playoffs are underway?
Projecting/speculating next season’s “outcomes” based on the current roster of this club is an unfair and premature critique, imho  

You might want to actually read the thread and responses before barging in and looking silly.

 

I didn’t say we wouldn’t make major changes, there is no indication we will as there are few options and not much cap space… but it is possible.

 

I was suggesting we “should” make major changes, and the other dude said we already had and shouldn’t make more.

 

We haven’t.

 

If you haven’t paid attention, a lot of teams have made major changes already this offseason.  We didn’t create “real flexibility”.  We managed to go from way over the cap to having about $6 million in space to sign 6 players.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Provost

[spook007]

1 hour ago, Odd. said:

A lot of people don’t understand how young Pettersson and Hughes still are.

 

Majority of the cup winners the last 10 years, the average age of core players is between 28-33 when they won their first cup.
 

There’s a difference between icing a team good enough to make the playoffs and a team that can compete for the cup. We’re not competing for the cup anyway for the next 3-4 years, why not build towards that future, ice a team that can make some noise come April for now, and have our core guys now be the ones to lead this team when our futures are ready to start becoming contributing factors for us.

 

The guys who we draft tomorrow, they’ll be Hughes and Pettersson’s playoff bubble age in 3-4 years. Imagine Pettersson and Hughes had core leaders back then, not having to be thrusted into the spotlight, being able to just freely play their game. Pettersson and Hughes can bear it so our future don’t have to. Hell both of them won’t even be 30 when these influx of prospects, if development is good, start becoming contributing factors.

Why not?