EdgarM Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 On 7/4/2023 at 6:05 PM, canuck73_3 said: This. He shouldn’t have to take a pay cut to accommodate the other 3 who aren’t taking a pay cut. Not sure why some here can’t grasp this. On 7/4/2023 at 7:01 PM, EdgarM said: ......because the others were OVERPAID in the first place genius! I actually agree with others in that he is probably worth more then the others. He is , however ,asking for too much. Like I said, I wouldn't take any of these guys if I want to win, although WN is the best of the bunch because he actually produces when it counts, in the playoffs. On 7/4/2023 at 10:08 PM, canuck73_3 said: Whether they’re overpaid or not means nothing, they set the bar. They took no discounts so why should he to stay there? If he leaves Toronto market changes for him, between cap and what he does this coming season will show where he falls there. But ZERO reason he shouldn’t settle for less than 10 to stay in Toronto. On 7/5/2023 at 8:22 AM, EdgarM said: This is the Bo/Miller signings all over again. Just because someone is willing to pay them, doesn't make them worth that much. This is the problem as another poster mentioned, these guys are getting paid before we even see what they can do in the playoffs. I bet Toronto is thinking that as they have these guys getting paid top dollar and then underperforming in the playoffs. We are kind of wanting to do the same with Petey. ZERO reason? Are you forgetting about maybe winning a championship? .........or is every player out there strictly for the money. On 7/5/2023 at 1:03 PM, canuck73_3 said: You need to remove yourself from the GM/Fan mode. Ask yourself honestly why Nylander needs to lower his demands when his teammates didn't his playoff performance was also better than JT @11 Mill per and on par with Matthews 11.6. So again I ask as the player why does Nylander have to ask significantly less? 23 hours ago, EdgarM said: Draisaitl 8.5, Tkachuk 9.5 and Eichel 10 million. Where do these Mooks fit in here? Not 10 or 11 million range thats for sure. They are overpaid just like Bo. Nylander should be in the 9 range and the others? Well you figure it out. 21 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: Draisaitl's deal was signed in 2017, His next deal will be $12Mill+ give me a break... Leafs shot themselves in the foot so again I ask you. If he outperformed Tavares who on the same team is making 11Mill, he performed on par with Matthews 11.6Mill, why should he ask for less than 10Mill? Why is this so hard to answer a direct question? 20 hours ago, EdgarM said: I already told you they were overpaid as was Bo, unless you think Bo is worth 8.5. You are comparing only to the players on 1 team. You are right, if I am only looking at the guys on my team, yeah he was being underpaid. His real worth? or his teammates real worth? If I am a GM in the NHL looking at players available in that salary brackett? I am not looking at anyone in a Leaf uniform. I am a bit leary of paying Petey any amount he wants either as we have not seen how he deals with the rigors of a long playoff run. Who knows, he may be a Matthews, Marner or JT too, when it comes to being a playoff performer or not. 20 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: Ok again, teammates are a reasonable comparison. So again why would NYLANDER ask for significantly less than players he is performing on par with? I don't give a shit what you think they're worth. If you're Nylander why would you ask for that much less? This isn't hard man. 45 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: When all else fails go for insults? You failed to answer and tip toed around simple question asked more than once, and you have the nerve to call someone thick? I answered your question, multiple times, you just didn't want to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 57 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: He's near as makes no difference save for Marner, and was only 1 point behind Matthews in the post season. Interesting you left Tavares out as that obviously damages your stance by quite a bit at 1.00PPG for 11Mill. And Again what you and Edgar fail to see is the PLAYER'S ASK, not what you think he is worth. And playoff performance in this case bolsters his ask with Marner again being the standout Marner - 1.27PPG JT -0.72PPG Matthews - 1.00PPG Nylander - .90 10 Mill isn't a ludicrous ask, whether he gets it or not is another story. He's also entering his prime years too so there is still room for growth for up to 3-4 years with him too. Why you and especially Edgar are struggling with the difference between the player's ask vs YOUR value of him is a bit baffling to be honest. You are trying to justify the players "ask" of more then 10 million. You may think he is worth that but some of us don't . I think you are actually arguing with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnBurner Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: 2022-2023 season: Marner - 1.24 PPG Matthews - 1.15 PPG Nylander - 1.06 PPG Even based just on last year he is still not on par with his teammates. Plus Marner finished 3rd in the Selke voting plus also had Hart votes. Matthews also had Hart votes this year. Nylander isn’t a $10 million player, not even against his own teammates. I agree Nylander isnt a $10 mil a year guy. But Horvat isn't an $8.5 mil a year guy, so where do you think these guys fit in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 1 hour ago, EdgarM said: I answered your question, multiple times, you just didn't want to listen. No you didn't, Why would Nylander and his agent ask for significantly less? Especially when they have a history of overpaying already. Again, you're not as smart as you think you are so no need to pat yourself on the back here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 Again, Kaprizov 9.5M, sit down Willie you aren’t getting more than him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 22 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: No you didn't, Why would Nylander and his agent ask for significantly less? Especially when they have a history of overpaying already. Again, you're not as smart as you think you are so no need to pat yourself on the back here. I never said anything about me being smart. You and Willy appear to seem to know what he is worth, I differ. It's that simple and we should probably leave it at that. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 2 hours ago, King Heffy said: Only the Klingberg salary was bad. Bertuzzi is a good value. Dubas had a history of bending over for every major contract extension, including Nylander's. They needed defensive dmen not another forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 4 minutes ago, EdgarM said: I never said anything about me being smart. You and Willy appear to seem to know what he is worth, I differ. It's that simple and we should probably leave it at that. Thanks. Matthews next deal is 14+, he’s not 4 million dollars better than Nylander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: They needed defensive dmen not another forward. Absolutely. I'm assuming the plan is to trade a forward to accomplish that. There's a difference between a bad contract and a bad fit. Dubas specialized in both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 8 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: Matthews next deal is 14+, he’s not 4 million dollars better than Nylander. Speculation doesn't count, but again, your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 6, 2023 Author Share Posted July 6, 2023 39 minutes ago, DrJockitch said: Again, Kaprizov 9.5M, sit down Willie you aren’t getting more than him. Kaprizov makes $9 million. So Nylander’s case is even worse. At best he deserves the BO special. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 6, 2023 Author Share Posted July 6, 2023 1 hour ago, BarnBurner said: I agree Nylander isnt a $10 mil a year guy. But Horvat isn't an $8.5 mil a year guy, so where do you think these guys fit in? Nylander should get the BO special. BO should be at $6.5 million max. At the end of the day there will always be a GM who will overpay for a free agent. So Nylander will be looking for that GM to try and hit a home run. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure2Win Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 If he goes to Calgary i'm gonna puke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, EdgarM said: Speculation doesn't count, but again, your opinion. If you think his next deal isn't touching 14mill I've got ocean front property in Saskatchewan to sell you. Edited July 6, 2023 by canuck73_3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted July 6, 2023 Author Share Posted July 6, 2023 3 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: He's near as makes no difference save for Marner, and was only 1 point behind Matthews in the post season. Interesting you left Tavares out as that obviously damages your stance by quite a bit at 1.00PPG for 11Mill. And Again what you and Edgar fail to see is the PLAYER'S ASK, not what you think he is worth. And playoff performance in this case bolsters his ask with Marner again being the standout Marner - 1.27PPG JT -0.72PPG Matthews - 1.00PPG Nylander - .90 10 Mill isn't a ludicrous ask, whether he gets it or not is another story. He's also entering his prime years too so there is still room for growth for up to 3-4 years with him too. Why you and especially Edgar are struggling with the difference between the player's ask vs YOUR value of him is a bit baffling to be honest. I left Tavares out because he signed his contract 6 years ago as a UFA. So it’s not really relevant anymore. Nobody is going to pay a PPG player $11 million, even as a UFA. Nylander can ask for whatever he wants. Obviously, if he is asking for $10 million that means he thinks he’s worth that much. He’s not. He’s not better than wingers who are making $9 million. Also, you can’t compare him to a centre like Matthews. Elite centres get paid much more than wingers, doesn’t matter if they have similar points. The top paid players in the NHL are all centres other than a couple of exceptions. Also, Dubas is the one who signed those contracts. So that doesn’t mean that Treliving is going to overpay Nylander just because the previous GM did so with his other teammates. So the argument that Nylander needs to get paid similar to his teammates doesn’t really work when a new GM has now been hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJockitch Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 Trading him for Karlsson, SJ would actually get better defensively while acquiring the Double Flamingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 19 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: The top paid players in the NHL are all centres other than a couple of exceptions. 6 of the top 10 paid players are not centers- and it is almost 7, as Tavares plays wing/center according to these guys: https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/active note that of the next ten best paid players 6 of them are not centers, 7 as Seguin is listed c/rw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 45 minutes ago, Bure2Win said: If he goes to Calgary i'm gonna puke. If he goes to CAL we should rejoice. Watch him and Huberdough continue to tank them. For a very long time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 1 hour ago, canuck73_3 said: They needed defensive dmen not another forward. What they really need is for their big players to score throughout entire playoff series and not just go ham in 2/7 games. The team easily qualifies for the playoffs every year. And some postseason games Matthews and Marner go off for 4-point games. How they can't keep that up is... just not good enough. Even soft players are more consistent than those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted July 6, 2023 Share Posted July 6, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bob.Loblaw said: What they really need is for their big players to score throughout entire playoff series and not just go ham in 2/7 games. The team easily qualifies for the playoffs every year. And some postseason games Matthews and Marner go off for 4-point games. How they can't keep that up is... just not good enough. Even soft players are more consistent than those two. Marner was pretty consistent the whole playoffs, 4 points in 5 games vs. Florida Nylander 3 in 5 was nearly right there with him. Matthews with only 2 points in 5 let them down after 9 in 6 vs Tampa. Edited July 7, 2023 by canuck73_3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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