Selling/Buying a used car to a dealership question

[HockeyLover17]

Hey as the title suggests, 

 

I was just taking my 2017 Civic SI into a Honda Dealership for a warranty repair, and I was browsing their showroom and saw a Type R on display that caught my eye. I inquired about it, and said I might be interested in trading up, and asked to get my current car appraised. It's had a major accident (previous owner) the bumper had to be rebuilt ($11,000 of damage). Obviously this will depreciate the cars value, but besides that, the car is in perfect condition, and I rarely drive (2017 with 50,000KM). No mechanical issues, frame damage, or any other type of defective issue and I've been driving the car for 2.5 years. 

The dealer asked how much I want. I said $23,000 - $24,000. Dealer said he'd ask the manager. Manager said that's reasonable. Then commented that my bumper isn't aligned and to get it fixed. (It's just the clips weren't installed properly. Would just require them to take the bumper off, and reattach it properly). So I said I'll go down to $22,500 and you guys fix that. Said he'd ask the manager.

Comes back to me and says $20,000. I said OK sounds good. Then says he'll call me back in an hour, and is now saying "It's too big of a risk. We'll only offer you $15,000 now". 

 

Obviously car salesmen are trying to get a good deal, but then he said, and I quote, "I wouldn't take this deal. You should go to another dealer, ask for a higher price and sell it, then bring that money and buy the Type R."

 

Is this normal? I doubt I'm going to even buy the car now, but I've bought 3 cars before (2 honda's, 1 mitsubishi) and never experienced anything like this, and even traded my previous car in hassle free. I've never heard of a 2017 Civic SI being a risk, and the previous dealership (Subaru) who bought my 2008 Honda Civic SI offered me a VERY competitive / fair price. I even checked KBB / Autotrader and $20,000 with 50,000km for a 2017 Civic SI  seems very reasonable with the major damage so I'm really bewildered.

 

Side story about the warranty repair: It took me 4-5 months of arguing with their service to get the screen replaced. Instead of diagnosing themselves, they told me to record the screen, while I was driving, and provide them proof. I had a family member record for me, and they kept saying to bring more video proof. 

 

Should I go to their General Manager about this and explain the situation to see what they'll do? I've honestly never experienced anything like this before in my life.

[-AJ-]

1 hour ago, HockeyLover17 said:

Hey as the title suggests, 

 

I was just taking my 2017 Civic SI into a Honda Dealership for a warranty repair, and I was browsing their showroom and saw a Type R on display that caught my eye. I inquired about it, and said I might be interested in trading up, and asked to get my current car appraised. It's had a major accident (previous owner) the bumper had to be rebuilt ($11,000 of damage). Obviously this will depreciate the cars value, but besides that, the car is in perfect condition, and I rarely drive (2017 with 50,000KM). No mechanical issues, frame damage, or any other type of defective issue and I've been driving the car for 2.5 years. 

The dealer asked how much I want. I said $23,000 - $24,000. Dealer said he'd ask the manager. Manager said that's reasonable. Then commented that my bumper isn't aligned and to get it fixed. (It's just the clips weren't installed properly. Would just require them to take the bumper off, and reattach it properly). So I said I'll go down to $22,500 and you guys fix that. Said he'd ask the manager.

Comes back to me and says $20,000. I said OK sounds good. Then says he'll call me back in an hour, and is now saying "It's too big of a risk. We'll only offer you $15,000 now". 

 

Obviously car salesmen are trying to get a good deal, but then he said, and I quote, "I wouldn't take this deal. You should go to another dealer, ask for a higher price and sell it, then bring that money and buy the Type R."

 

Is this normal? I doubt I'm going to even buy the car now, but I've bought 3 cars before (2 honda's, 1 mitsubishi) and never experienced anything like this, and even traded my previous car in hassle free. I've never heard of a 2017 Civic SI being a risk, and the previous dealership (Subaru) who bought my 2008 Honda Civic SI offered me a VERY competitive / fair price. I even checked KBB / Autotrader and $20,000 with 50,000km for a 2017 Civic SI  seems very reasonable with the major damage so I'm really bewildered.

 

Side story about the warranty repair: It took me 4-5 months of arguing with their service to get the screen replaced. Instead of diagnosing themselves, they told me to record the screen, while I was driving, and provide them proof. I had a family member record for me, and they kept saying to bring more video proof. 

 

Should I go to their General Manager about this and explain the situation to see what they'll do? I've honestly never experienced anything like this before in my life.

Sounds to me like the salesman understands that the manager is giving you a raw deal and is trying to do you a solid.

 

There's a subreddit called r/askcarsales that you should post this in, there are tons of salesmen there who can tell you about the inner workings of the industry.

[HockeyLover17]

9 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Agreed - and with previous supply chain issues and general lack of inventory, 2nd hand cars are pretty hot in demand right now.  Sounds like the manager guy is trying to lay the screws on you to see if you'll bend.

Yeah I tried posting on reddit, but no responses. I'm gonna se if I can speak with the GM tomorrow. Just doesn't make sense why they wouldn't want to move a car out, and get another car in. 

[Dazzle]

1 minute ago, HockeyLover17 said:

Yeah I tried posting on reddit, but no responses. I'm gonna se if I can speak with the GM tomorrow. Just doesn't make sense why they wouldn't want to move a car out, and get another car in. 

Because dealers want to make money. They have been notorious with price gouging, especially during COVID. Though not every dealer is outright greedy, remember that they're not in the business for charity. And if you look at it from their point of view, they need the profit to run their business. Lights, drinks (coffee, tea, etc), staff all cost money.

 

Try not to get too caught up with the dealer hate. They are there to make money, not help you. Well, if they do help you, it costs money. And almost everything costs money, except friendship. Some salespeople are honest, most are not.

[HockeyLover17]

10 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Because dealers want to make money. They have been notorious with price gouging, especially during COVID. Though not every dealer is outright greedy, remember that they're not in the business for charity. And if you look at it from their point of view, they need the profit to run their business. Lights, drinks (coffee, tea, etc), staff all cost money.

 

Try not to get too caught up with the dealer hate. They are there to make money, not help you. Well, if they do help you, it costs money. And almost everything costs money, except friendship. Some salespeople are honest, most are not.

No 100% I agree. I don't know if you skimmed the message, but what I thought was weird was how I said 23k to 24k and they're "that's reasonable." but noticed a minor defect with the bumper, and even stated it was an easy fix. The sales MANAGER straight up said, "it's an easy fix." and I countered to $22.5k, and he says "No. 20k." and I say "OK that's fine." then he says "No nevermind. 15k."

 

I get being in it to make money, but don't quote 20k, then change it to 15k. THAT'S the part that doesn't make sense. I came down 4k for the dealer, and was only asking $400 off the asking price of the vehicle. I hardly think that's an unfair deal. 

[grumpyone]

take your business elsewhere.

I'd recommend either a different Honda dealer or just go to a different car brand.

Personally, I'd recommend Hyundai. Their new 'n' line has some real hot cars/suvs. Plus Hyundai offers a standard 5 year warranty, not the measly 3 year of the other dealers. 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by grumpyone

[Wolfgang Durst]

12 hours ago, HockeyLover17 said:

Hey as the title suggests, 

 

I was just taking my 2017 Civic SI into a Honda Dealership for a warranty repair, and I was browsing their showroom and saw a Type R on display that caught my eye. I inquired about it, and said I might be interested in trading up, and asked to get my current car appraised. It's had a major accident (previous owner) the bumper had to be rebuilt ($11,000 of damage). Obviously this will depreciate the cars value, but besides that, the car is in perfect condition, and I rarely drive (2017 with 50,000KM). No mechanical issues, frame damage, or any other type of defective issue and I've been driving the car for 2.5 years. 

The dealer asked how much I want. I said $23,000 - $24,000. Dealer said he'd ask the manager. Manager said that's reasonable. Then commented that my bumper isn't aligned and to get it fixed. (It's just the clips weren't installed properly. Would just require them to take the bumper off, and reattach it properly). So I said I'll go down to $22,500 and you guys fix that. Said he'd ask the manager.

Comes back to me and says $20,000. I said OK sounds good. Then says he'll call me back in an hour, and is now saying "It's too big of a risk. We'll only offer you $15,000 now". 

 

Obviously car salesmen are trying to get a good deal, but then he said, and I quote, "I wouldn't take this deal. You should go to another dealer, ask for a higher price and sell it, then bring that money and buy the Type R."

 

Is this normal? I doubt I'm going to even buy the car now, but I've bought 3 cars before (2 honda's, 1 mitsubishi) and never experienced anything like this, and even traded my previous car in hassle free. I've never heard of a 2017 Civic SI being a risk, and the previous dealership (Subaru) who bought my 2008 Honda Civic SI offered me a VERY competitive / fair price. I even checked KBB / Autotrader and $20,000 with 50,000km for a 2017 Civic SI  seems very reasonable with the major damage so I'm really bewildered.

 

Side story about the warranty repair: It took me 4-5 months of arguing with their service to get the screen replaced. Instead of diagnosing themselves, they told me to record the screen, while I was driving, and provide them proof. I had a family member record for me, and they kept saying to bring more video proof. 

 

Should I go to their General Manager about this and explain the situation to see what they'll do? I've honestly never experienced anything like this before in my life.

It's obvious to me that the GM wanted to sell the Type R to you. With that in mind you had all the leverage to get what you wanted - an reasonable value for your old car and the new Type R. I would have asked them how much the repair is. Once they told you the repair cost you then could have subtracted the cost from the offered $23,000 - $24,000 to arrive at the value for your old car. from my perspective calling the old car a risk is possibly related to the major accident and the possible negative effects of the accident on the car's condition. Best thing you can do is to stay away from that dealer. He's only interested in maximising his own money. A good dealer would have found a solution that works for both parties. I guess this is not the only honda dealer in greater Vancouver area.

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, grumpyone said:

take your business elsewhere.

I'd recommend either a different Honda dealer or just go to a different car brand.

Personally, I'd recommend Hyundai. Their new 'n' line has some real hot cars/suvs. Plus Hyundai offers a standard 5 year warranty, not the measly 3 year of the other dealers. 

 

Good warranty but the Type R is a significantly better car though 

[grumpyone]

6 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Good warranty but the Type R is a significantly better car though 

from motortrend :

This is an easy comparison to explain, so let's get the big stuff out of the way. The Honda Civic Type R is the best-driving front-drive performance car on sale in America. Period. The Hyundai Veloster N is the second-best-driving front-drive screamer you can buy. End of story.

 

The issue is that, as tested, the Honda stickers for $7,255 more than the Hyundai. That's assuming, of course, you can find a Honda dealer that won't try to tack on an additional $8,000 to $15,000 "Market Adjustment" fee. Which you can't. At least not here in Southern California. There's no question that a better car is worth more money. But worth $7,000 to $22,000 more? 

Edited July 15, 2023 by grumpyone

[canuck73_3]

37 minutes ago, grumpyone said:

from motortrend :

This is an easy comparison to explain, so let's get the big stuff out of the way. The Honda Civic Type R is the best-driving front-drive performance car on sale in America. Period. The Hyundai Veloster N is the second-best-driving front-drive screamer you can buy. End of story.

 

The issue is that, as tested, the Honda stickers for $7,255 more than the Hyundai. That's assuming, of course, you can find a Honda dealer that won't try to tack on an additional $8,000 to $15,000 "Market Adjustment" fee. Which you can't. At least not here in Southern California. There's no question that a better car is worth more money. But worth $7,000 to $22,000 more? 

I would still get the R imo I have driven both. Worked for Hyundai and Honda previously. 

[Dazzle]

9 hours ago, HockeyLover17 said:

No 100% I agree. I don't know if you skimmed the message, but what I thought was weird was how I said 23k to 24k and they're "that's reasonable." but noticed a minor defect with the bumper, and even stated it was an easy fix. The sales MANAGER straight up said, "it's an easy fix." and I countered to $22.5k, and he says "No. 20k." and I say "OK that's fine." then he says "No nevermind. 15k."

 

I get being in it to make money, but don't quote 20k, then change it to 15k. THAT'S the part that doesn't make sense. I came down 4k for the dealer, and was only asking $400 off the asking price of the vehicle. I hardly think that's an unfair deal. 

I didn't skim your message. The other posters already touched on it, so I didn't think it was worth me repeating what the other people said. The quote dropped probably to "punish" you for haggling with him. Sleazy move.

[bishopshodan]

If you talk with the GM, the salesman might get in trouble. He sounds like he was trying to give you the heads up.about the manager. 

 

Stand your ground with this place and tell them you want 20k for your trade in, and/or go to another dealer. 

[-AJ-]

1 hour ago, grumpyone said:

from motortrend :

This is an easy comparison to explain, so let's get the big stuff out of the way. The Honda Civic Type R is the best-driving front-drive performance car on sale in America. Period. The Hyundai Veloster N is the second-best-driving front-drive screamer you can buy. End of story.

 

The issue is that, as tested, the Honda stickers for $7,255 more than the Hyundai. That's assuming, of course, you can find a Honda dealer that won't try to tack on an additional $8,000 to $15,000 "Market Adjustment" fee. Which you can't. At least not here in Southern California. There's no question that a better car is worth more money. But worth $7,000 to $22,000 more? 

These are my thoughts exactly. The Type R is the best, but Hyundais are such a drastically better price that if price matters to you, get a Veloster, Elantra, or Kona N.

[D.B Cooper]

Sell it privately, take the cash and buy what you want.  
 

You have a lot more buying power with a handful of cash than a car for trade.  
They will always tell you a million reasons why it’s not worth what it’s worth.  
 

I recently had a dealer offer me 11k for my 2016 Durango. (The body was beat up, but perfect mechanically) 
I sold it privately for 15.5k, then bought my beautiful truck. 

[Barnstorm]

Salesman…” I’ll check with the manager”.

 

Dealerships and vehicle lots have been using this ploy since day one of selling vehicles. 
 

Idea is to get a customer emotionally invested in buying and then leave them

alone with their thoughts while the salesperson “ talks to the manager”. 
 

Now the customer believes a deal

depends on the all important “manager”and waits anxiously while the salesperson actually disappears into some office and calls home to see what’s for dinner. 
 

Then returns and says the “manager”

can’t do it at that cost but will do it for the better ( for them) price of $xxx. 
 

Well, if the big all knowing manager says so it must be true. Sold.

I would have a walked away at the first hint of head games and told them

both they lost my business with their shady game. Definitely leave them

with something to think about and remember regarding their tactics. 
 

You owe these people nothing and there’s a hundred different places to take your business. Wouldn’t waste a single minute trying to figure out what they are up to. 

[Barnstorm]

Never ever tell them you intend to  pay with cash or have a large down payment. 
 

Let them think you will be financing as they make more money that way and more likely to lower the price slightly. 

Once a price is agreed upon then is the time to announce cash payment. 

 

Truth is, if you buy new you take a huge hit the second it leaves the lot. Up to 20% gone like a fart in the wind. 
 

Check for factory rebates the dealer isn’t telling you about. I cut a deal on a Ram 3500 Cummins, (weeks of negotiating), and seconds before signing I brought the factory rebate of $6500 to salesman’s attention. 

 

BOOM! Price just dropped $6500 they weren’t going to “remember” to tell me. Should have seen the look on his face.

They didn’t make the usual profit on that deal. They often won’t tell you unless you specifically ask . I made a point of playing ignorant of the rebate until I negotiated the best possible price.

I only bought new because I can perform most maintenance and plan on keeping the vehicle for 15 + years , likely 20.

[HockeyLover17]

49 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

Never ever tell them you intend to  pay with cash or have a large down payment. 
 

Let them think you will be financing as they make more money that way and more likely to lower the price slightly. 

Once a price is agreed upon then is the time to announce cash payment. 

 

Truth is, if you buy new you take a huge hit the second it leaves the lot. Up to 20% gone like a fart in the wind. 
 

Check for factory rebates the dealer isn’t telling you about. I cut a deal on a Ram 3500 Cummins, (weeks of negotiating), and seconds before signing I brought the factory rebate of $6500 to salesman’s attention. 

 

BOOM! Price just dropped $6500 they weren’t going to “remember” to tell me. Should have seen the look on his face.

They didn’t make the usual profit on that deal. They often won’t tell you unless you specifically ask . I made a point of playing ignorant of the rebate until I negotiated the best possible price.

I only bought new because I can perform most maintenance and plan on keeping the vehicle for 15 + years , likely 20.

Went to White Rock Honda and asked them if they're not interested in buying a used 2017 civic SI and he thought I was crazy. I told him the story and he said he's never heard of something like that. He asked me a series of questions (he was the car appraisal person) and said without even looking at the car the lowest they'd offer is $22,000 because it would be an easy sell at $27,000. Very honest and forthright. That seems fairly accurate to auto trader / Kbb. 

 

Asked if I could use his appraisal to stick it to the other dealer and he said absolutely. At the end of the day, it's not a NEED it's a WANT, so I'm not going to be swindled. But I am going to speak with the GM because quite frankly, agreeing on 2 separate quotes then backing out and lowballing me has lost all trust / faith in that sales manager. I will not deal with him. 

[Barnstorm]

13 minutes ago, HockeyLover17 said:

Went to White Rock Honda and asked them if they're not interested in buying a used 2017 civic SI and he thought I was crazy. I told him the story and he said he's never heard of something like that. He asked me a series of questions (he was the car appraisal person) and said without even looking at the car the lowest they'd offer is $22,000 because it would be an easy sell at $27,000. Very honest and forthright. That seems fairly accurate to auto trader / Kbb. 

 

Asked if I could use his appraisal to stick it to the other dealer and he said absolutely. At the end of the day, it's not a NEED it's a WANT, so I'm not going to be swindled. But I am going to speak with the GM because quite frankly, agreeing on 2 separate quotes then backing out and lowballing me has lost all trust / faith in that sales manager. I will not deal with him. 

If it was me, I would send the sales manager a short email detailing that you will not spend any money with them and why. 
Short and to the point. 75 - 100 words max. Cc the salesman. I’d leave the GM out of it. I’m sure he couldn’t care less . 
You could close with …

“This isn’t the first sale you’ve lost and it won’t be the last.”

The less energy you give the shysters the worse they will feel. You’ve got better things to do than focus on them. 

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Barnstorm

[WeneedLumme]

2 hours ago, HockeyLover17 said:

Went to White Rock Honda and asked them if they're not interested in buying a used 2017 civic SI and he thought I was crazy. I told him the story and he said he's never heard of something like that. He asked me a series of questions (he was the car appraisal person) and said without even looking at the car the lowest they'd offer is $22,000 because it would be an easy sell at $27,000. Very honest and forthright. That seems fairly accurate to auto trader / Kbb. 

 

Asked if I could use his appraisal to stick it to the other dealer and he said absolutely. At the end of the day, it's not a NEED it's a WANT, so I'm not going to be swindled. But I am going to speak with the GM because quite frankly, agreeing on 2 separate quotes then backing out and lowballing me has lost all trust / faith in that sales manager. I will not deal with him. 

Sounds to me like you came down too easily on your price, so they assumed that they could keep chiseling you. They will squeeze every penny they think they can get from you, and if you seem easy....

[Rush17]

If they are going to be shady and change the price your best to walk away. The biggest thing as a personal policy I have is if you're going to quote me x then backtrack and lower the offer I'm not even considering doing business with you if you're that shady. Your word should be your bond as a business. 

 

You might be able to get a better deal elsewhere on the vehicle buy price. Maybe look on one of those car deal sites. maybe you can find a slightly used type R at a discounted rate in a nearby community. Some people buy beyond their means then have to give up a relatively new car.