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-Vintage Canuck-

*Official* CBA Negotiations and Lockout Thread

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Daly affirmed the league's interest in seeing the NHLPA make an offer that is linked to revenue growth, as opposed to a guaranteed player amount. The NHLPA's last offer proposed $1.883 billion (equivalent to the amount they took in last year) with 1.75 percent interest in Year 1, although it is believed that the league would like to see the division of revenue accounted for on a pure percentage basis.

"If their proposal continues to be a guaranteed player amount, sitting here on Nov. 19, that's not a proposal that would ... ever be acceptable to us," Daly said. "If that happens to be where we are, we will be a long way apart."

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Wanted: Investors to restart the WHA.

I'm looking to revive the Vancouver Blazers, give me 11 other rich folks and a nice multi-billion dollar line of credit I'll get a league started.

Blue Pucks are back baby!

:P

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In an email to the Star Tribune last night, Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said: "I find it incredible that the Union is suggesting that we are somehow "close" to a deal.

-um, it should be close, you just need to quit hugging Bettman

They have utterly refused to negotiate for months.

-I see repeated invitations to the bargaining table from the union side

They have made essentially one proposal -- five times.

-posturing, but mostly just find one way or another to honour your signed contracts

They continue to request a "guaranteed" Players Share as part of the next agreement and we repeatedly tell them maybe they should get a reality check.

-*both* parties signed the contract. I'm sure they will cringe at this one, but who locked out who?

And in the mean time, maybe they can make their position clear to us on 50-50

-well, they agreed to it, that's a pretty big number in dollars

, on the make-whole

-just pay out what you signed for

and on Player Contracting issues.

-the players are taking a pay cut, how long do you want this to go on for?

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I still only see 5% mentioned in the league's projections, and even then only at year 3.

Regardless, I find this passage from the article gets to the heart of the matter directly:

“The issue of how you deal with damage from the lockout is a tough one, particularly since it is impossible to know the extent of the damage," NHLPA Special Counsel Steve Fehr said in an email. "What we have suggested to the owners several times is that we put aside that issue for the moment and concentrate upon the overall structure of the deal. If we do that, based upon the last proposals from each side, we think the parties are much closer than they have ever been on the economics. If we could bridge that gap, then we could come back quickly to the lockout damage issue. For whatever reason, the owners have declined to do that, and seem to be intent on portraying the parties as further apart than we think we are.”

-

The NHLPA has previously indicated the players shouldn’t be responsible for the damage of starting this lockout. That may be fair.

Regardless though, what all these numbers prove at the very least is that the longer this lockout goes, the harder the math equation will be to solve. Damage to league revenue becomes more and more severe with each passing day. That complicates absolutely everything, which is why an end to the lockout just doesn't seem in sight.

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Looks like PA will put forward another proposal by Wednesday at the latest. Apparently the concern is once again on economic concepts.

Source: a combined paraphrase of a number of hockey journalist twitter feeds :).

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@TEAM1040: Kris Versteeg tells @tsn1050radio in Toronto that Bettman and Daly are "cancers' that have been "looting this game for far too long".

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Who is representing the fans in this lockout - obvious...

With the financial crisis it would go a long way with fans if they lowered their ticket prices. Good pr move upon resumption of play next oct...

Or... Are they too greedy? Yes!

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@ChrisBottaNHL

Player text on NHL meeting: "More wasted time. Our choice is either give up everything to the league or watch them cancel the season."

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Hows the NHLPA doing these days? Arent you glad they hired Fehr so that two years later they are locked out and RANTING childish insults at their employers ?

Aint life grand? The union must be so PLEASED at how well Fehr has handled Bettman and the owners. See how Fehr put them in their place !!!!!!

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Who should be in control of the league?

The players, who play the game, know how it runs, and are lucky to be playing (for the most part) and are emotional about their team and the spirit of competition.

The owners, who love the game, know how it runs, and are glad to have teams (for the most part) and are emotional about their team and the spirit of competition.

The NHL bureaucracy, who manage the game, know how it runs, and are detached (for the most part) and indifferent to the spirit of competition.

The problem is the middle. the NHL bureaucracy, the real business of the league not the teams, is out of joint. The door is off the hinges. Inmates running the asylum.

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Versteeg should gain a little more intelligents during this lockout in order not to look like an complete uneducated fool.

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Yes, those profits were generated by AOC. However, the point you keep missing is that THEY GIVE PROFITS TO THE PANTHERS. That's not speculation, that's the known terms of the original lease agreement.

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"Almost all of the owners (/owning entities) of NHL teams have large stakes in other businesses. By uniting a large group of NHL fans to start a boycott of at least some of these businesses, right now, we may be able to influence the owners in some way. At the very least, we can let them know that their actions are affecting us in a negative way, so we have the ability and power to do the same to them.

Here is a list of NHL owners (from http://icehockey.wik...t_of_NHL_Owners), and other businesses that they have a large stake in. You may be surprised at some of the names - if not the sheer quantity:

Henry Samueli - Anaheim Ducks

Broadcom Corporation - Computer & Telecommunications Networking

Jeremy Jacobs - Boston Bruins

Chairman of Delaware North Companies (hospitality and food service company)

Terrence Pegula - Buffalo Sabres

Owns the AHL Rocester Americans.

N. Murray Edwards - Calgary Flames

Owns Canadian Natural Resources (oilsands development). Also owns Resorts of the Canadian Rockies, which owns Fernie Alpine Resort, Kimberley Alpine Resort, Nakiska, Stoneham Mountain Resort, and Mont-Sainte-Anne, Kicking Horse Resort.

Peter Karmanos - Carolina Hurricanes

Owns Compuware, large business software developer

Rocky Wirtz - Chicago Blackhawks

Rocky oversees Wirtz Corporation's commercial and residential real estate companies, wine distributor Wirtz Beverage Group, an insurance company and banks in Illinois and Florida. Wirtz is also the co-chairman of the Executive Committee of the United Center.

Stan Kroenke - Colorado Avalanche

Owns Kroenke Sports Enterprises, which in addition to the AVS, controls the Denver Nuggets (NBA), Colorado Rapids (MLS), Colorado Mammoth (NLL) and St. Louis Rams (NFL).

JMAC Inc. - Columbus Blue Jackets

n/a

Tom Gaglardi - Dallas Stars

Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer of Sandman Hotels, Inns & Suites and Moxie's Restaurants, LP. Also part owner of Kamloops Blazers.

Mike Ilitch - Detroit Red Wings

Also owns Little Cesars Pizza and the Detroit Tigers.

Rexall Sports (of Katz Group) - Edmonton Oilers

Owns over 1800 pharmacies in Canada, under the names: Rexall, Herbie's for Drug and Food, Meditrust Pharmacy, Pharma Plus, Super Drug Mart, and Dell Pharmacies.

Cliff Viner (& Stu Siegel?) - Florida Panthers

Cliff Viner is a general partner with AVM, LP a fixed income broker/dealer, and III Associates, a fixed income derivatives money management firm. Last I heard, Stu Siegel sold his shares in the team.

Philip Anschutz & Edward Roski Jr. - Los Angeles Kings

Philip Anschutz owns or has stakes in MLS teams LA Galaxy, Chicago Fire, Houston Dynamo, San Jose Earthquakes, and the NY/NJ Metro Stars; Los Angeles Lakers; Staples Center and O2 Arena; and the Home Depot Center. Ed Roski is also a part owner of the Lakers, and owns the Silverton Casino Lodge in Las Vegas.

Craig Leipold - Minnesota Wild

Leipold's companies own the Grand Ol' Opry in Nashville, and the Houston Aeros AHL team. They also manage the Xcel Energy Center and the Saint Paul RiverCentre.

Molson Family - Montreal Canadiens

Molson is a big invester in the NHL (for many teams), besides owning a cornerstone franchise. Their beers include Canadian, Coors, Ice, Golden, Export, Dry, XXX, Stock Ale, Rickard's, Pilsner, Carling, Keystone, Bohemian, and Calgary Export. Owns partial stakes in the Brazilian brands A Marca Bavaria and Kaiser. In Canada, has the marketing and selling rights for Corona, Heineken, and Miller brands.

Predators Holdings LLC - Nashville Predators

Owns and operates Bridgestone arena.

Jeffrey Vanderbeek - New Jersey Devils

Owns the Prudential Center (but maybe not for long!)

Charles Wang - New York Islanders

Owner of CA Technologies (systems software developer) and the Bridgport Sound Tigers AHL team.

James Dolan - New York Rangers

Also President and CEO of Cablevision Systems Corporation (only operates in NYC - unrelated to Cablevision Canada).

Eugene Melnyk - Ottawa Senators

He is the founder, and former chairman and CEO of Biovail Corporation (Parmaceuticals), which merged with merged with Valeant Pharmaceuticals International in 2010. Its major products include Cesamet (nabilone), Efudex, Mestinon, Diastat, and Ribavirin.

Comcast-Spectator - Philadelphia Flyers

Comcast is a major Internet/Cable/Phone provider in the US.

NHL - Phoenix Coyotes

Hah!

Mario Lemieux & Ron Burkle - Pittsburgh Penguins

Ron Burkle has his fingers in a lot of pies. Some of the major ones are: 20.7% stake in Americold Realty Trust; major invester in Sean John clothing line; small stakes of Barnes & Noble and American Apparel. Significant stake in Relativity Media, which produced such films as Let Me In, Limitless, Machine Gun Preacher, Mirror Mirror, The Raven, and upcoming releases such as The House at the End of the Street, Movie 43, and Safe Haven.

Sports Capital Partners - St. Louis Blues

Owns Real Madrid! Also Real Salt Lake (MLS), Peoria Rivermen (AHL), Scottrade Center, Peabody Opera House, KALL700 Sports Radio, and Tupelo-Honey productions.

Sharks Entertainment Enterprises - San Jose Sharks

Owns the HP Pavillion and Worcester Sharks. Also a minority shareholder in the San Jose Earthquakes (MLS).

Jeff Vinik - Tampa Bay Lightning

Also owns the Tampa Bay Storm. Minority owner of the Boston Red Sox. Also on board of directors for Liverpool Football Club.

M.L.S.E - Toronto Maple Leafs

Also owns the Raptors, Marlies (AHL), Toronto FC (MLS), Air Canada Centre, Ricoh Coliseum, BMO Field, Mastercard Centre, and Real Sports.

Canucks Sports and Entertainment - Vancouver Canucks

Also owns Rogers Arena. But it is 100% owned by Aquilini Investment Group, which owns/operates: multi-storey residential developments in Vancouver including the King Edward Village, Richards Living tower, and Maynards Block; proponent of the proposed $2.6B Garibaldi at Squamish resort; half ownership of Halifax-based Pacrim Hospitality Services, which owns and manages 30 hotels across Canada, and all Pizza Hut locations in BC; creator and producer of Bassano Hard Soda.

Ted Leonsis - Washington Capitals

Also majority owner of majority owner of the Washington Wizards (NBA), Washington Mystics (WNBA) and the Verizon Center. Founder and Chairman of SnagFilms, which offers ad-supported documentaries. Vice chairman of Groupon and on the board of American Express.

True North Sports and Entertainment - Winnipeg Jets

Owns and operates the MTS Centre, and the St. John's Ice Caps (AHL).

Now, obviously every person will not be a direct consumer of these companies. However, I am going to make my own "boycott list". I encourage any of you to do the same.

So, if a lockout is declared on September 15th, I will begin a boycott of the following:

- All beers produced/distributed by Molson (no Heinekin or Corona)

- Rexall drugs (normally gets around $50/month from me)

- Moxies

- Little Cesars

- Pizza Hut (BC)

- Sandman Hotels

- All films produced by Relativity Media

- Premiership games with Liverpool or Real Madrid, merchandise for either team

- Will try to influence brother-in-law to boycott St. Louis Rams (he's a huge fan)

- Fernie Alpine Resort, Kimberley Alpine Resort, Nakiska, Stoneham Mountain Resort, and Kicking Horse Resort (I go to Kicking Horse every year)

- No events at Rogers Arena when I'm in Vancouver (I catch concerts here)

- Bassano Hard Soda (will tell everyone it's terrible)

Feel free to spread this by any means possible. I am going to start tweeting information/etc. using hashtag #fanlockout." from the thread BETTER KNOW A BOYCOTT by D-Money

I encourage people to copy/paste this in a Word file and print it out then post it on as many bulletin boards as possible. I also encourage people to post this on social media sites. Band-wagoners and fair-weather fans can have their apathy. Show that you care.

Edited by RWMc1, A minute ago.

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Sooooo....TIRED from playing Black Ops 2...wishing I was watching hockey SIGH~! So whats the latest? Players cave yet....? The NHLPA to submit a new Proposal on Wednesday....it will only be declined...they League will then submit their own and it will be declined...If this is the case maybe 2 weeks doesn't sound so bad...

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The problem is the middle. the NHL bureaucracy, the real business of the league not the teams, is out of joint. The door is off the hinges. Inmates running the asylum.

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Versteeg should gain a little more intelligents during this lockout in order not to look like an complete uneducated fool. Maybe if someone in his family gets cancer he'll understand the proper use of the word. Instead of just throwing it around like it is nothing. Go and visit a local hospital where people are fighting literally for their lives then maybe he'll understand that a 7% reduction isn't all that bad after all. What a piece of sh-t this guy is.

For a guy making 3.6M and averging only 40 points a year for his career are things really that bad for Kris? No one said Versteeg had to play in the NHL, if he is unhappy with the way things are being run, he has plently of options to go and play else where around the world. Another option is to go get an education and start appling for jobs like 98% of us do.

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I believe you are repeatedly and purposefully misrepresenting what I have said. Only other thing I could think of is lack of intelligence and simple reading comprehension ability. Either is not good because I don't want to have a discussion with either of those ppl.

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Seriously?!? Try spellcheck or stay in school,LOL!

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Ooh....Now the word opinion has meaning lol...

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I am not missing it at all. I am simply not addressing it because I have no issue with it's truthfullness and it isn't hockey revenues.

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