oldnews Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 +1I still cant beleave we gave up the 6th best goalie for 9th pick. With a 9th pick any one would be happy to have 6th best goalie ... so why give it up hopeing a guy comes close to that in 5 years or so Poor bo has sutch big comparisons now. Btw thought benning said he wasnt gonna have bo for the nucks this year? No? I hope he can suprise us all and just blow the competition and nich away but could be a dream That's not a bad return actually, if it's kept in the larger context. I love Schneider and certainly don't consider dealing him for a 9th overall a great trade, but it's all relative - if you look at what goaltenders get dealt for...it's not bad at all. The other reality may be that all these guys and goaltenders in general might be considerably undervalued as a lot. I wouldn't necessarily disagree. Patrick Roy for Kovalenko, Rucinsky and Thibault. #8 Bishop for Conacher and a 4th #5 Bobrovsky for a 2nd and two 4ths #7 Varlamov for the 11th overall and a 2nd So #6 Schneider for the 9th overall isn't all that out of order. Vokoun for a 7th.... Which is part of the reason I think people complaining about Matthias and Markstrom for Luongo may have expected too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 +1 I still cant beleave we gave up the 6th best goalie for 9th pick. With a 9th pick any one would be happy to have 6th best goalie ... so why give it up hopeing a guy comes close to that in 5 years or so Poor bo has sutch big comparisons now. Btw thought benning said he wasnt gonna have bo for the nucks this year? No? I hope he can suprise us all and just blow the competition and nich away but could be a dream Schneider being the 6th best goalie is just an opinion, it's not a fact. But even if he is, you say that we gave up the 6th best goalie for the 9th overall pick, which isn't true. We gave up the "6th best goalie" for Bo Horvat. Since no one knows what Horvat is going to turn into at this point, you can't say outright that it was a bad deal. Schneider wasn't ranked as high at the time we traded him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck_in_AB Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Lets hope he makes the team and this turns out to be a late gift from the old regime, despite the fact Schneider was ranked 6th best goalie by NHL.com today. Nothing would please me more than to see Bo become the teams next Kesler or more - he has the skills and was considered the best pick by Bob Mckenzie that draft year. Good post. Bo Horvat isn't going to be the next Kesler, he is going to be the first Horvat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two drink minimum Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I think Bo will be his own man. Stop all this comparison bs already people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I said I HOPE he is the next Kesler - not that he is going to be, rather unlikely actually. That said - Kesler skating wasn't that great when he came in, and neither was his upside right away. It took a few years for his value to show up. Which is the same with the twins too, and the fans were pretty impatient with them (the sisters handle became common during this time)for the first 3-4years. So if Horvat does make the team and doesn't get 50pts don't throw him under the bus, or any of the other young guys...that is unless by year 4 they are still on the team and getting 30pts on the second line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaSwede Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Horvat not making the team this year won't hurt his development at all. However, It could slow down the progression he could have potentially have made at the NHL level. He will still progress in London but likely not as much as he would in Vancouver and I don't think it would hurt his confidence either. He knows he is a good player, he knows he is still young and he knows that he is going up against seasoned nhl pros and players that have had years of development ahead of him. Players shouldn't make the team for the sake of just injecting youth in my opinion, they have to show that they are ready and earn the spot. I wouldn't be against having Bo in London for another year to develop his offensive game further and potentially get his foot speed up but if he is ready to go, I am sure that Benning will make a spot available for him to fill. Idealy he would be eligible for the AHL but that is not the case. Sedin - Sedin - Vrbata Burrows - Bonino - Kassian Higgins - Horvat - Hansen/Vey Matthias - Richardson - Vey/Dorsett If he makes the team and management want Vey up in the NHL, Hansen will be moved for a third round pick (Canucks don't have one this year, lost in the Kesler trade) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrogZilla Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I don't think Bo will make the team. I don't think Bo should make the team. But damn, I hope Bo makes the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 This. Here's hoping he's ready.I don't think he even has to be 'ready', per se. Or at least more ready than he already is. To be eased into 4th line minutes while graduating to harder roles over time? He can easily start doing that now. Same with Gaunce. I think the Canucks need to start showing that change is indeed coming if that's their new slogan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I don't think he even has to be 'ready', per se. Or at least more ready than he already is. To be eased into 4th line minutes while graduating to harder roles over time? He can easily start doing that now. Same with Gaunce. I think the Canucks need to start showing that change is indeed coming if that's their new slogan. Shhh!! That kind of talk tends to bring out the no-no's I tend to agree though. By in large he has to be 'ready' but IMO if he's even close (which I think he will be), he stays. At least for his 9 games anyways. If he's that close the coaches and veterans can help him work on whatever niggling details are not quite there. And as you say, as he improves (and he will, he's too good, too driven and he'll do it faster at the NHL level), he can graduate slowly to more/bigger roles and situations. I honestly believe at this point it's more likely he's on the team than back in London (though of course, it's still possible). He's also the reason I doubt Gaunce makes it. Too easy to have him in Utica easing in to the pro's and as available depth for injuries without risk of waivers. Gaunce will likely get a few games here and there throughout the year and possibly graduating next year with Richardson's contract expiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I can't imagine another year in the OHL will hurt his development too much. It might. And some people inside the organization are concerned about this possibility. Stan Smyl touched on the issues in an interview a few weeks back (I'll try to find a link). Basically, the concern is regarding Horvat's usage in the OHL. Last season, he faced some of the highest QoC of any forward in the league. And he played some pretty high minutes (I believe around 22-23 minutes per game), including a huge chunk of London's defensive zone starts and PK. If he goes back to the OHL, he'll probably be leaned on even more, and he could be playing 25+ minutes per game and handling all the top opponents, key draws, and first unit PK. This might not sound like a bad thing. Lots of icetime and responsibility. Lots of chances to improve his game. The problem is that many people feel that Horvat's biggest obstacle, in term of making the pro jump, is him handling the pace of the NHL and adjusting to the speed of the game. Smyl talked about how he believes Horvat has a tendency to pace himself and hold a little back, so that he has enough left in the tank to handle the big minutes he plays with London. And if his role is expanded further, the worry is that Horvat will learn to play in a way there he's pacing himself, holding back, conserving his energy, and not bringing 100% on every shift. In the OHL, Horvat is just so much better than most of the other players, so him playing at 85% is enough for him to get by. In the NHL, he's going to need to be giving it 100% for him to be truly effective. This is especially the case when you're talking about a guy with "pace" concerns and whose skating is not at the "plus" level. The best thing for Horvat would be to start 2014-15 with the Canucks in a fairly sheltered role and with fairly low minutes. Instead of pacing himself through 25 minutes, Horvat could go flat out on every shift for 8-10 TOI/G and leave everything on the ice during those limited minutes. As he adjusted to the speed and skill level of the NHL, he could see his minutes increased and gradually he could be moved up the order, eventually taking over the #3C slot (or even moving into the top-six toward the end of the year). But if he stays in London, his development (in terms of NHL-readiness) could stagnate or worse, he could pick-up some habits that actually set him back and make his transition more difficult. If would be different if the Knights intended to use him in mostly offensive situations and play him in prime scoring opportunities. But London wants to win games and that means using your best defensive forward to shutdown the opposition's top players. That means giving Horvat the tough minutes so that others on his team can draw softer competition. And that means riding "Ox" as heavily as possible. Horvat's already shown a tendency to go into a bit of a "power saver mode" at times so that he can handle the drain of very tough usage over the entire length of the game (and the season). This isn't a bad thing in itself as even Selke winners need to pace themselves so that they can finish strong in the "marathon" of high minutes against top flight QoC. And smart players understand when and where they can save energy throughout the game. However, this isn't really something you want a guy to be doing for too long at the junior level. When it comes to development (and building NHL "readiness"), we've reached the point where the usage plan that wins London the most games in the 2014-15 OHL season is not looking like the same plan that will best prepare Horvat for success in the NHL. And when you reach that point, it's time to get the player out of junior and into the bigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 +1 SID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I really like Bo, kinda reminds me of a smaller version of Kopitar. Going to take some years, but he is going to be a really good player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck nit Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 To my understanding Trevor Linden was the only Canuck to play at 19. Pavel,Hank and Dan all started at 20 years of age. I like Bo,but a few months in junior after the World Juniors is not going to hurt his game or career. Edit: Dale Tallon made the 19 year old threshold by six days in 1970. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Should the starting ages of Linden and Tallon even be relevant? In this era you see 18yr olds play all the time now. Bo's comparable, ROR started at 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 To my understanding Trevor Linden was the only Canuck to play at 19. Pavel,Hank and Dan all started at 20 years of age. I like Bo,but a few months in junior after the World Juniors is not going to hurt his game or career. Edit: Dale Tallon made the 19 year old threshold by six days in 1970. I agree. All this talk about how Bo might have his psyche damaged by another year in junior is ridiculous. Most NHL players play their final junior-eligible year in junior rather than the NHL. I think Bo is psychologically tough enough to survive the trauma of going back to London for a year. After all, a lot worse things can happen (see Shinkaruk, Hunter). And, although Bo was a very good player in Junior last year it is not like he dominated the OHL. He still has room to improve and, as he has said, the Hunters are excellent coaches and London is an excellent organization. And he would get lots of ice time in all situations, something that would not happen with the Canucks. Don't get me wrong. I hope he plays well enough to make the Canucks and I think he is likely to get a 9-game trial. But the odds are against him making the team and I don't really see any problem with going back to London. (And it would be nice to see him as one of the leaders on the Canadian Juniors this year, something that might not happen if he makes the Canucks.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Should the starting ages of Linden and Tallon even be relevant? In this era you see 18yr olds play all the time now. Bo's comparable, ROR started at 18. I don't get it either. I never started in the NHL, therefore Bo shouldn't either.... damn near as relevant. I agree. All this talk about how Bo might have his psyche damaged by another year in junior is ridiculous. I don't think that's most people's (anybodies?) concern. I think most of us think he is/is damn close, to ready and would be better served learning to play at the NHL pace which is likely his last/only hurtle to being 'NHL ready' and will not be served by playing in Junior (and may actually be detrimental as per SID's excellent post at the bottom of last page). Nobodies worried about his feelings being hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kessnasty Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 What happens if he makes the team and plays...lets say 15-20 games, before becoming ineffective and being scratched. Would he then be able to be sent down to Utica or would he be banished to the press box indefinitely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure to Mogilny Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 What happens if he makes the team and plays...lets say 15-20 games, before becoming ineffective and being scratched. Would he then be able to be sent down to Utica or would he be banished to the press box indefinitely? Pretty sure would be press box duty untill traded i guess That would suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 What happens if he makes the team and plays...lets say 15-20 games, before becoming ineffective and being scratched. Would he then be able to be sent down to Utica or would he be banished to the press box indefinitely? He could be sent back to London but would have a year of his pro contract burned. No Utica until next year/the end of London's season. Pretty sure would be press box duty untill traded i guess That would suck Unless it's for Johansen or something, Horvat is not being traded anywhere even if he's horrible 15 games in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrogZilla Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 What happens if he makes the team and plays...lets say 15-20 games, before becoming ineffective and being scratched. Would he then be able to be sent down to Utica or would he be banished to the press box indefinitely? He would ofc be returned to junior. The 9 game limit is simply to keep from burning a year off his ELC, he can be returned to junior at any point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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