JeremyCuddles Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 16 hours ago, Fred65 said: Grooming him for a top 4 role, that's a leap of faith. He's struggles in the AHL. Fantenberg is a 3 year NHL D, with positive stats and is 27 how can OJ leap frog those skill/experience. Maybe the dream at the draft was for OJ was a top 2 or 4 D, is that dream in reality still alive … in your mind? At what point will the aspiration and reality cross. You hang with this prospect he will go from tradable to untradable. In my mind this is his year to solidify him as an NHL D. Think about it, even Sautner (23 games ) has more games in the NHL than OJ. Tryamkin can maybe play the left side. Experience does count … in my mind any way. Any way Merry Christmas Juolevi has been great in the AHL. I mean, if the coaches assessment means anything to you. He'd be in the NHL now if not for these injuries. His talent is not in question, and if it is you aren't following him all that much. It's hard to find in depth stats, specifically TOI, but from what I hear he is playing in literally every situation. I think the main reason we haven't seen OJ, outside of his injuries, is they don't want him coming up and being sent down and coming up etc. Sautner, with all due respect, isn't in the long term plans so calling him up is whatever. They are letting Juolevi sit in the AHL and keep in a rhythm playing top 2 minutes. Kinda like what they did when they sent Jake down. They didn't call him up at all after they sent him down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 13 minutes ago, N7Nucks said: Juolevi has been great in the AHL. I mean, if the coaches assessment means anything to you. He'd be in the NHL now if not for these injuries. His talent is not in question, and if it is you aren't following him all that much. It's hard to find in depth stats, specifically TOI, but from what I hear he is playing in literally every situation. I think the main reason we haven't seen OJ, outside of his injuries, is they don't want him coming up and being sent down and coming up etc. Sautner, with all due respect, isn't in the long term plans so calling him up is whatever. They are letting Juolevi sit in the AHL and keep in a rhythm playing top 2 minutes. Kinda like what they did when they sent Jake down. They didn't call him up at all after they sent him down. Oh he's got his eye on that +/- though. That's all the depth analysis that is needed. They haven't called him up because he just returned from a major injury, so instead of throwing him into the best league in the world, they rather he continues to develop and gain some traction. We may see a call up by the end of the season if he stays healthy, but if we are vying for a playoff spot, he might not even see a game this year in the NHL. And that wouldn't be a knock on him, but simply ensuring he's ready before giving him a look. The goal is that when he is up, he stays. They aren't grooming him simply as a depth callup, they want him to be a regular. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Phat Fingers said: Those aren't fans. Their trolls. We have a whole bunch that will go into hiding for a long time when this team hits its stride. Good gracious are you for real. Have you ever ever sat down on a meaningful hockey team in a group meeting reviewing the team the roster and the what we need. I suspect too many here are all part of a group …. a cheerleader group, who have rose coloured glasses and want every thing to be "nice" Well here's the news flash successful teams are not all "nice" and need to be assessed good and bad and push forward to improve. If your not improving you're falling behind, status quo is not a place to be. Oh and by the way Merry Christmas and Festivus for the rest of us Edited December 24, 2019 by Fred65 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I think different points of views create dialog and useful points from both sides (funny how people can see 2 different things) As long as they are handled with respect it is interesting When it resorts to personal insults and attacks, it becomes zzzz Hopefully 2020 will bring a great season for the Canucks and respectful dialog amongst their fans Merry Christmas to All 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Fred65 said: Good gracious are you for real. Have you ever ever sat down on a meaningful hockey team in a group meeting reviewing the team the roster and the what we need. I suspect too many here are all part of a group …. a cheerleader group, who have rose coloured glasses and want every thing to be "nice" Well here's the news flash successful teams are not all "nice" and need to be assessed good and bad and push forward to improve. If your not improving you're falling behind, status quo is not a place to be. Oh and by the way Merry Christmas and Festivus for the rest of us Okay Boomer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 Fantenburg is playing unreal at the moment, so I don't see the point of even bringing him up in conversation unless you're comparing him to Josi or Carlson Fred, you seem the most rushed and concerned about Juolevi. No one else in the organization is showing your kind of urgency. He's an asset lost to bad luck, which is what injuries are. There was no indication in his junior career that he'd be injured every single year. He's turning it around and playing well lately. Does that make you happy or upset? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said: Fantenburg is playing unreal at the moment, so I don't see the point of even bringing him up in conversation unless you're comparing him to Josi or Carlson Fred, you seem the most rushed and concerned about Juolevi. No one else in the organization is showing your kind of urgency. He's an asset lost to bad luck, which is what injuries are. There was no indication in his junior career that he'd be injured every single year. He's turning it around and playing well lately. Does that make you happy or upset? I want OJ to enjoy success it will provide some excitement and maybe a top 4 D. Regretfully that hasn't shown and I can only judge from facts. There's no point in making excuses or dreaming of stardom. IMO for a player such as OJ but any player really he has to be an all round quality player with some speciality that sets him apart from other candidates. As of today I just don't hear reports that suggest this is close at hand. A good example is Rafferty who is sound O/A ( or so all the reports state) and adds his offense as the distinguishing feature Edited December 25, 2019 by Fred65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, Fred65 said: I want OJ to enjoy success it will provide some excitement and maybe a top 4 D. Regretfully that hasn't shown and I can only judge from facts. There's no point in making excuses or dreaming of stardom. IMO for a player such as OJ but any player really he has to be an all round quality player with some speciality that sets him apart from other candidates. As of today I just don't hear reports that suggest this is close at hand. A good example is Rafferty who is sound O/A ( or so all the reports state) and adds his offense as the distinguishing feature Rafferty is 3 years older and has a reputation of giving up odd man rushes the other way... is he ahead of Oli today...yes ...but in 3 years Oli will be better than Raf is now.... Just watch...1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said: Rafferty is 3 years older and has a reputation of giving up odd man rushes the other way... is he ahead of Oli today...yes ...but in 3 years Oli will be better than Raf is now.... Just watch...1 Sounds like that other poster doesn't even watch OJ play. They stated "As of today I just don't hear reports that suggest this is close at hand". So a poster is a negative nelly about OJ without even watching him. Uh yeah.......haha. I won't worry about their opinion at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 Rollieo, I will ditch your part of my signature....lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said: Rollieo, I will ditch your part of my signature....lol. Merry Ho,Ho and Festivus for the restofus.... ...down to one on my ignore list...you are back in the loop! Edited December 25, 2019 by Rollieo Del Fuego 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said: Rafferty is 3 years older and has a reputation of giving up odd man rushes the other way... is he ahead of Oli today...yes ...but in 3 years Oli will be better than Raf is now.... Just watch...1 Honestly how do u reach that conclusion?? Do you have alternate facts ( to quote Kelly Ann Conway) than the rest of us. The only consistent, to me any way, is he's injury prone again and again plus his stats put him in the cellar of the AHL stats. I watched with great interest in Rafferty last season and from being a player I had no idea about, he showed a lot and from every thing I've read has continued in Utica. The coach has him on the 1st PP I believe and he's racking up points at an above average rate when compared with his pears( best in the AHL). Will OJ reach the same level in 3 years time is not a given. Let's hope but we have no facts to suggest that will be the case. Maybe Lind will be better than Boeser but that's not what the facts tell us. I'm just putting in time until we get into the turkey Edited December 25, 2019 by Fred65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post theo5789 Posted December 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 25, 2019 27 minutes ago, Fred65 said: Honestly how do u reach that conclusion?? Do you have alternate facts ( to quote Kelly Ann Conway) than the rest of us. The only consistent, to me any way, is he's injury prone again and again plus his stats put him in the cellar of the AHL stats. I watched with great interest in Rafferty last season and from being a player I had no idea about, he showed a lot and from every thing I've read has continued in Utica. The coach has him on the 1st PP I believe and he's racking up points at an above average rate when compared with his pears( best in the AHL). Will OJ reach the same level in 3 years time is not a given. Let's hope but we have no facts to suggest that will be the case. Maybe Lind will be better than Boeser but that's not what the facts tell us. I'm just putting in time until we get into the turkey Based on your reasoning, perhaps we should just avoid the draft altogether because there are no facts that any of those players can become anything at the NHL level since we cannot project anything years down the road and all they have to show for are junior stats that may or may not translate anyway. We are developing OJ to become a top 4 dman (that is taking on tough assignments like top PK) and from a young player comes mistakes and growing pains. He may have had a couple of injury setbacks, but he's back and playing now, so all we can do is support his progression. It's great that Rafferty is playing well, but he also has had 3 more years to develop. To put it into perspective, Rafferty is older than Virtanen who has developed his game immensely in a 3 year time period. Juolevi may be a longer term project than we would have liked, but there is still plenty of time for him to get there. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MrCanuck94 Posted December 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 26, 2019 I feel like I'm seeing a lot of Juolevi vs Rafferty in the threads lately, as if both are not our prospects lol Juolevi is doing fine. It's not just the stats, it's the skillsets. There is a reason Juolevi is being leaned on defensively by the team. If he was on PP1 (which I believe he was before the injury), his points would be there as well. Since Rafferty is doing well there, it makes sense to just let him be and have him develop and excel there. I am hesitant on becoming too high on Rafferty. There are many older D that do well in the AHL but don't translate. However, I do believe he is a late bloomer and will become a solid NHLer. Whatever he becomes, whether it is a first, second or third pairing d man is a win for our team regardless. 2 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 1 hour ago, theo5789 said: Based on your reasoning, perhaps we should just avoid the draft altogether because there are no facts that any of those players can become anything at the NHL level since we cannot project anything years down the road and all they have to show for are junior stats that may or may not translate anyway. We are developing OJ to become a top 4 dman (that is taking on tough assignments like top PK) and from a young player comes mistakes and growing pains. He may have had a couple of injury setbacks, but he's back and playing now, so all we can do is support his progression. It's great that Rafferty is playing well, but he also has had 3 more years to develop. To put it into perspective, Rafferty is older than Virtanen who has developed his game immensely in a 3 year time period. Juolevi may be a longer term project than we would have liked, but there is still plenty of time for him to get there. Exactly. No point in comparing apples to oranges. Total different players, different circumstances, different roles. Let them develop. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Fred65 said: Honestly how do u reach that conclusion?? Do you have alternate facts ( to quote Kelly Ann Conway) than the rest of us. The only consistent, to me any way, is he's injury prone again and again plus his stats put him in the cellar of the AHL stats. I watched with great interest in Rafferty last season and from being a player I had no idea about, he showed a lot and from every thing I've read has continued in Utica. The coach has him on the 1st PP I believe and he's racking up points at an above average rate when compared with his pears( best in the AHL). Will OJ reach the same level in 3 years time is not a given. Let's hope but we have no facts to suggest that will be the case. Maybe Lind will be better than Boeser but that's not what the facts tell us. I'm just putting in time until we get into the turkey It's just my opinion of course and as I stated before in this thread...if Juolevi stays healthy until the playoffs we may be all talking about how we should bring both he and Rafferty up together and go with 8 D. and rest Edler and Tanev (if he is still around) for a few games here and there. If Rafferty hasn't topped out he could well be bonus D. by then...and Oli being healthy for half a season will no doubt vault his skills, confidence and speed...he is young and still learning at a fast rate when healthy.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dats hockey Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 2 hours ago, theo5789 said: Based on your reasoning, perhaps we should just avoid the draft altogether because there are no facts that any of those players can become anything at the NHL level since we cannot project anything years down the road and all they have to show for are junior stats that may or may not translate anyway. We are developing OJ to become a top 4 dman (that is taking on tough assignments like top PK) and from a young player comes mistakes and growing pains. He may have had a couple of injury setbacks, but he's back and playing now, so all we can do is support his progression. It's great that Rafferty is playing well, but he also has had 3 more years to develop. To put it into perspective, Rafferty is older than Virtanen who has developed his game immensely in a 3 year time period. Juolevi may be a longer term project than we would have liked, but there is still plenty of time for him to get there. I wonder if people understand Rafferty practically had 5 more years of development than OJ, player development is important into becoming NHL players not everyone can make the jump right away 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGT68 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 If Juolevi eventually pans out like Virtanen is really starting to look like he will, Benning is really gonna look like a drafting genius. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Fred65 said: Honestly how do u reach that conclusion?? Do you have alternate facts ( to quote Kelly Ann Conway) than the rest of us. The only consistent, to me any way, is he's injury prone again and again plus his stats put him in the cellar of the AHL stats. I watched with great interest in Rafferty last season and from being a player I had no idea about, he showed a lot and from every thing I've read has continued in Utica. The coach has him on the 1st PP I believe and he's racking up points at an above average rate when compared with his pears( best in the AHL). Will OJ reach the same level in 3 years time is not a given. Let's hope but we have no facts to suggest that will be the case. Maybe Lind will be better than Boeser but that's not what the facts tell us. I'm just putting in time until we get into the turkey Quoting Kelly Anne Conway is not a positive. Your need to have confirmation of your POV while continuing to ignore or belittle information that is contrary to your POV is all but cemented with KAC and 'alternative facts'. Taking the plus minus stat (completing miss using and over stating it's importance) while ignoring sample size, improved play in a Rookie, deployment and likely you haven't even watched OJ play, your POV is about as accurate as Trumps. Choosing to be inside your own bubble is fine. Just don't bother to try and convince others unless you want to see facts vs your alternatives. Rafferty is 3 years older, not recovering from an injury and his success is great. It doesn't bear negatively on OJ. You have no idea what kind of deployment OJ a d Rafferty are getting. OJ is a player expected to play in the NHL one day. At the AHL, I would hope that Cull would have him focus on play without the puck as his offence is not a concern. As for Lind. Better than Brock... straw man approach. No one is talking about Brock or Lind. We are talking about defenceman. Maybe keep that in mind. OJ has a path to the NHL if he can stay healthy. ACL tears are difficult injuries. I speak from experience. But with a good surgeon, a full recovery should be expected. That, said, if he has gotten back on the ice, he likely has had a full recovery. It will cause some pelvic shifting as the injured leg will end up being slightly shorter due to losing some elasticity in the connecting tissues from the injury and the repair. Hip soreness which kept him out of some games is a secondary issue that often appears in recovery. It is often on the opposite side. Again, OJ has time. He gets 55 to 60 games this year and playoffs, it will do wonders. That's looking good so far. Edited December 26, 2019 by Phat Fingers 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted December 26, 2019 Share Posted December 26, 2019 (edited) On 12/24/2019 at 5:15 PM, Phat Fingers said: Okay Boomer To quote the German philosopher Hegel. Quote "The owl of Minerva spreads its wings only with the falling of the dusk." For the who don't follow the philosophers, which may, may, include millennials it means that wisdom and experience ( the owl ) only occurs late in life ( dusk ) You'll graduate to the owl status many years from now. I suspect many, many, many years from now. ps. Hegelianism. Hegelianism is the philosophy of G. W. F. Hegel which can be summed up by the dictum that "the rational alone is real" Edited December 26, 2019 by Fred65 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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