[Rumor] Canucks interested in Tyler Bozak

[awalk]

I much prefer the Dale Tallon "we like having a young team, we won't block those young players with older free agents" approachv

[aGENT]

13 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Point still stands, Ellis will be a top 4 player if/when one of our current guys are gone. Still need that top pairing talent.

Again, not denying we need top pair talent (and Ellis IMO is at least 'borderline' top pair talent anyway) but you don't, not add a bonafide, young, top 4 D if the $ and term make sense whether we have all the other 'top pair' pieces in place or not.

 

I take a D core full of top 4 D any day as an alternative anyway. One could argue that's largely what we had in 2011 and FWIW, a team with their D built entirely of '2nd pair' guys just swept the Kings in their 1st round series. 

 

Depth wins championships.

[theo5789]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Again, not denying we need top pair talent (and Ellis IMO is at least 'borderline' top pair talent anyway) but you don't, not add a bonafide, young, top 4 D if the $ and term make sense whether we have all the other 'top pair' pieces in place or not.

 

I take a D core full of top 4 D any day as an alternative anyway. One could argue that's largely what we had in 2011 and FWIW, a team with their D built entirely of '2nd pair' guys just swept the Kings in their 1st round series. 

 

Depth wins championships.

Hard to gauge Ellis for me because he has Subban, Josi, and Ekholm on that defense plus Rinne in net. He will be much more exposed with us or he could have more of an opportunity to excel. The decent money and term compared to value is my major concern. I have no problem with Ellis and think he's an excellent player, but I just don't see him being the guy that makes a big enough of a difference to justify what he will likely get in free agency. He going to be 28 in 2019 and I imagine he will be looking for that big contract and the only way he gets a decent value deal is if he chooses to stay in Nashville.

 

We are doing well rebuilding and we need to bring in the right pieces (on ice value and cap value) to complement it. Ellis could be it, but I personally wouldn't plan around that possibility.

[JM_]

2 hours ago, drummerboy said:

 

Not a snowballs chance in hell.  

Svech is a very special player.  

Tkachuk........ isn’t.  Lol.  

The kid is full of question marks and holes. 

 

 

yah could be, the stuff in the media about Jim liking the kids game could all be BS. 

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Hard to gauge Ellis for me because he has Subban, Josi, and Ekholm on that defense plus Rinne in net. He will be much more exposed with us or he could have more of an opportunity to excel. The decent money and term compared to value is my major concern. I have no problem with Ellis and think he's an excellent player, but I just don't see him being the guy that makes a big enough of a difference to justify what he will likely get in free agency. He going to be 28 in 2019 and I imagine he will be looking for that big contract and the only way he gets a decent value deal is if he chooses to stay in Nashville.

 

We are doing well rebuilding and we need to bring in the right pieces (on ice value and cap value) to complement it. Ellis could be it, but I personally wouldn't plan around that possibility.

 

Who said anyone should be 'planning around' it?

 

Next year's free agency offers us likely numerous opportunities to vastly upgrade our D should it still be forecasting out needing some help. I like that summer far better than this one because:

 

A ) - We're further along in our rebuild with a clearer picture of where we still have holes.

B ) - There's more than one guy available (Carlsson this year) which offers both more options and less competition/supply vs demand.

 

We have zero cap issues if that's where we choose to get spendy on one big free agent as part of the re-thing.

[D.B Cooper]

29 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yah could be, the stuff in the media about Jim liking the kids game could all be BS. 

Liking a player, and picking him 7 apots early when there is a sure thing stud available are two totally different things 

[canuck73_3]

At the expense of Gagner I'd be ok with Bozak but don't see the point of both on the team. 

[Canuck Surfer]

On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 4:51 AM, theo5789 said:

Washington would be silly to let him go at this point and where else would he go that will pay him and still be on a team as good as the Caps anyway?

A strong chance your right? But he could go to Vegas.  They might have to sign some of their own UFA's just to hit the cap floor. And will have money for John.

 

On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 5:21 AM, theo5789 said:

It is of my opinion that we have the top 4 dmen depth already and we are lacking quality top 2 dmen. If we get the top 2 dmen, then that will bump down the minutes of our current D and those players will play much more suited to their level.

This is also a reasonable opinion. but only in the short, not medium or long term. Yes quality D to bump guys into natural roles as you suggest would be ideal?  We could have a HUGE problem if our vets start leaving.

 

Juolevi is probably the only lock NHL defender? Brisbois a good shot. Rathbone has some skills, still a wild card at this stage.  MDZ & Edlers pacts are up this year, Tanev next, Guddy the year after. We have more guys potentially leaving than poised to come in. Our whole rebuild could get railroaded if we don't start implanting some guys. 

 

Ellis for example is a great strategic fit for us. Instantly becomes our best puck handler, run our PP, add offense & pace to our attack so our skilled prospect forwards can jump into productivity as they arrive. A few years stability to find & develop the next gen of D? 

 

McDonough is 3 years younger than Edler & better.  

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Hard to gauge Ellis for me because he has Subban, Josi, and Ekholm on that defense plus Rinne in net. He will be much more exposed with us or he could have more of an opportunity to excel.

Nashville also has Fabbro & a decent kid named Allard in their prospect group.  It may make sense to let him roll? For them to transition some guys...

 

There is a swell of small guys dispelling the myth that their is no role for a small D. Their key is, like Stecher, they still battle, are great positionally. The ones who don't, do get shifted out quick, see Larsson with us last year. Ellis been on the ice these play off's when Colorado has needed a goal. And thee reason is he makes better plays when he gets the puck. Gets pucks because of his speed & tenacity. I remember not picking Ellis in a pool 4 years ago, thinking he would be a novelty with Seth Jones arriving.

 

He was good enough they felt comfortable trading Seth Jones. Think about that?

[aGENT]

30 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Nashville also has Fabbro & a decent kid named Allard in their prospect group.  It may make sense to let him roll? For them to transition some guys...

 

There is a swell of small guys dispelling the myth that their is no role for a small D. Their key is, like Stecher, they still battle, are great positionally. The ones who don't, do get shifted out quick, see Larsson with us last year. Ellis been on the ice these play off's when Colorado has needed a goal. And thee reason is he makes better plays when he gets the puck. Gets pucks because of his speed & tenacity. I remember not picking Ellis in a pool 4 years ago, thinking he would be a novelty with Seth Jones arriving.

 

He was good enough they felt comfortable trading Seth Jones. Think about that?

Yup, have to think Fabbro gets most of next year as development and then recalled at the deadline after NAS rents Ellis for futures. 

[Canuck Surfer]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yup, have to think Fabbro gets most of next year as development and then recalled at the deadline after NAS rents Ellis for futures. 

Doubt they rent him if still contending? Maybe a hockey trade...

[aGENT]

Just now, Canuck Surfer said:

Doubt they rent him if still contending? Maybe a hockey trade...

Not bound to let him walk for nothing. They've got depth on D and Fabbro to plop right in, in a depth role (obviously less experienced). I just don't see Ellis surviving past next TDL short of re-signing at a massive discount.

 

But yes, could be a hockey trade to fill a hole elsewhere closer to Ellis' current salary (not that NAS has a lot of holes).

[theo5789]

7 hours ago, aGENT said:

 

Who said anyone should be 'planning around' it?

 

Next year's free agency offers us likely numerous opportunities to vastly upgrade our D should it still be forecasting out needing some help. I like that summer far better than this one because:

 

A ) - We're further along in our rebuild with a clearer picture of where we still have holes.

B ) - There's more than one guy available (Carlsson this year) which offers both more options and less competition/supply vs demand.

 

We have zero cap issues if that's where we choose to get spendy on one big free agent as part of the re-thing.

I meant planning around the possibility of even getting him. We don't know if he will be traded to another team or what his asking terms are come free agency. Maybe he re-signs at a very reasonable deal with Nashville. When Ellis hits free agency, Nashville has a lot of cap to work with with most of their key pieces already signed. It will take quite the deal to pry him from away and that is what worries me.

 

There may be more upcoming UFAs as of right now, but it would likely not be the same number of players come July 1st 2019.

[theo5789]

4 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Nashville also has Fabbro & a decent kid named Allard in their prospect group.  It may make sense to let him roll? For them to transition some guys...

 

There is a swell of small guys dispelling the myth that their is no role for a small D. Their key is, like Stecher, they still battle, are great positionally. The ones who don't, do get shifted out quick, see Larsson with us last year. Ellis been on the ice these play off's when Colorado has needed a goal. And thee reason is he makes better plays when he gets the puck. Gets pucks because of his speed & tenacity. I remember not picking Ellis in a pool 4 years ago, thinking he would be a novelty with Seth Jones arriving.

 

He was good enough they felt comfortable trading Seth Jones. Think about that?

Fabbro and Allard could start off on bottom pair roles or the AHL for a couple of years at least before needing to make the decision if it's worth losing Ellis.

 

I've never questioned whether Ellis can handle playing as a small dman, but rather simply if he can handle top pairing minutes. I personally feel he's just a top 4 dman (albiet a good one) that might be fetching around 6 million for possibly max term with trade clauses if he hits the open market. Perhaps he will sign for a more reasonable deal which I would be absolutely fine with, but reasonable deals usually only happen with their original team or some home town discount.

 

Ellis had proven his worth, but I think it was more the availability of Johansen (1st line center) that they were lacking that made Jones expendable. Plus the fact that they had Weber, Josi, and Ekholm as well to trade from a position of strength to fix a weakness.

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

Not bound to let him walk for nothing. They've got depth on D and Fabbro to plop right in, in a depth role (obviously less experienced). I just don't see Ellis surviving past next TDL short of re-signing at a massive discount.

 

But yes, could be a hockey trade to fill a hole elsewhere closer to Ellis' current salary (not that NAS has a lot of holes).

Hey, what's that new butt monkey picture of yours supposed to be?

[mll]

15 hours ago, aGENT said:

Not bound to let him walk for nothing. They've got depth on D and Fabbro to plop right in, in a depth role (obviously less experienced). I just don't see Ellis surviving past next TDL short of re-signing at a massive discount.

 

But yes, could be a hockey trade to fill a hole elsewhere closer to Ellis' current salary (not that NAS has a lot of holes).

The bulk of their core is under contract for at least another 4 years - it would be surprising if they don't re-sign Ellis and Josi (a year later).  They have the cap space and their window is open.  Poile was also talking about how he finally has the team to go all the way.

 

Their system is dependent on their top-4Ds and the team was just not the same without Ellis. Ever since his return in January, Laviolette and Poile have not stopped commenting about his impact.  He is scoring at a 60pt pace.

 

Fwiw they created the position of associate captain for Ellis - he was a strong consideration to be their captain and they wanted him to have an extended role on their leadership group. The other As are alternates.   

 

As for Fabbro it seems like he is returning to Boston - BU announced him as their C for next season just last week.  After signing he'll also likely spend time in the AHL - Poile insists that the road to Nashville goes through Milwaukee and made very few exceptions.  It fits with the two years they gave to Irwin and Weber and the 4 years Poile mentioned prior to drafting Fabbro.  

 

Poile's comments on why it was so important for them to draft Fabbro and Girard (now traded) suggested that they didn't feel they had Ds that projected as top-4 in their system before them.

Nashville, the Florida teams and Dallas are apparently the more favourable locations tax wise - re Stamkos signing at such a discount in Tampa while still bringing back more money than if he had signed in Toronto.  Same situation in Nashville.  

 

[aGENT]

14 hours ago, theo5789 said:

I meant planning around the possibility of even getting him. We don't know if he will be traded to another team or what his asking terms are come free agency. Maybe he re-signs at a very reasonable deal with Nashville. When Ellis hits free agency, Nashville has a lot of cap to work with with most of their key pieces already signed. It will take quite the deal to pry him from away and that is what worries me.

 

There may be more upcoming UFAs as of right now, but it would likely not be the same number of players come July 1st 2019.

Again, not 'planning' on anything. This year has one D of any note available. Next year there are currently 7. Yes that will likely reduce as a few simply re-sign but I'd not be at ALL surprised to see any/all of EK, Doughty and OEL test free agency and likely one or two more of the the rest do so as well. My original post was simply stating I like the timing of even considering signing a 'big' D for next year, FAR better than this summer. That's it. You're frankly arguing against a position I never really took.

 

14 hours ago, theo5789 said:

I personally feel he's just a top 4 dman (albiet a good one) that might be fetching around 6 million for possibly max term with trade clauses if he hits the open market.

I'd be pretty surprised if he's much under $7m frankly.

 

13 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Hey, what's that new butt monkey picture of yours supposed to be?

Agent Smith...

 

 

2 hours ago, mll said:

The bulk of their core is under contract for at least another 4 years - it would be surprising if they don't re-sign Ellis and Josi (a year later).  They have the cap space and their window is open.  Poile was also talking about how he finally has the team to go all the way.

 

Their system is dependent on their top-4Ds and the team was just not the same without Ellis. Ever since his return in January, Laviolette and Poile have not stopped commenting about his impact.  He is scoring at a 60pt pace.

 

Fwiw they created the position of associate captain for Ellis - he was a strong consideration to be their captain and they wanted him to have an extended role on their leadership group. The other As are alternates.   

 

As for Fabbro it seems like he is returning to Boston - BU announced him as their C for next season just last week.  After signing he'll also likely spend time in the AHL - Poile insists that the road to Nashville goes through Milwaukee and made very few exceptions.  It fits with the two years they gave to Irwin and Weber and the 4 years Poile mentioned prior to drafting Fabbro.  

 

Poile's comments on why it was so important for them to draft Fabbro and Girard (now traded) suggested that they didn't feel they had Ds that projected as top-4 in their system before them.

Nashville, the Florida teams and Dallas are apparently the more favourable locations tax wise - re Stamkos signing at such a discount in Tampa while still bringing back more money than if he had signed in Toronto.  Same situation in Nashville.  

 

Josi will be due a raise the year following Ellis. They might be able to squeeze one last year out of them together assuming they re-sign Ellis rather than move him but I doubt they'll have room for both raises the year following. Especially with a bunch of their RFA's due raises in that time frame as well.  I'm sure Poile would LOVE to keep them all together for the foreseeable future but that's not likely tenable. Something will need to give. If it's not Ellis, it will be someone else. Though Ekholm's contract (good Gordie they should be charged with cap circumvention for that thing  ) certainly doesn't hurt them.

 

 

[VIC_CITY]

On 4/20/2018 at 11:59 AM, aGENT said:

Again, not denying we need top pair talent (and Ellis IMO is at least 'borderline' top pair talent anyway) but you don't, not add a bonafide, young, top 4 D if the $ and term make sense whether we have all the other 'top pair' pieces in place or not.

 

I take a D core full of top 4 D any day as an alternative anyway. One could argue that's largely what we had in 2011 and FWIW, a team with their D built entirely of '2nd pair' guys just swept the Kings in their 1st round series. 

 

Depth wins championships.

It's true. Depth is so important during an 82 game season and even more so in the playoffs when things get tough and the refs put away their whistles.

 

There's also the age old argument that depth down the middle wins cups, or that defense wins championships. 

 

So we're obviously miles away in that regard. But depth is an obvious first place to start. Guys like Jasek and Chatfield might not be top end prospects but they're still essential to any rebuild. Hell, even a guy like Brisebois who will likely settle in as a 3rd pairing defenseman, they're all important to our future. So we need to keep putting these building blocks in place and then hopefully guys like Pettersson, Demko and whoever we draft this year end up being home runs. But it's good to start putting all of these pieces in place so we don't end up like Edmonton one day with the best player in the world but they can't build a team around him.

[wallstreetamigo]

I am hoping beyond hope that we stay away from Bozak as a free agent. Unless it's a 1 year deal (which he wont take especially not coming out of hypeville aka Toronto), he is not what we need. 

 

If you want to maximize assets, take Spezza from Dallas with another asset/high pick added. It's an expiring contract that doesnt hurt us at all going forward like a Bozak contract on term alone certainly will.

 

Be smart Benning. This kind of cap space and opportunity doesnt come around often. With several teams likely to want to trip over each other to sign Tavares and/or Carlson, Jimbo should be aggressively offering to take back short term cap dumps from these teams to accumulate other assets. If he can add in a garbage contract like Gagner all the better.

 

If Benning plays his cards right, we could add some veteran leadership AND add a few high end prospects and/or picks. This is how you take advantage to rebuild quickly.

[-Vintage Canuck-]