[Trade] Hurricanes trade Elias Lindholm, Noah Hanifin to Flames for Dougie Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, Adam Fox

[oldnews]

29 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

I wouldn't necessarily classify Lindholm as a center although he can take faceoffs if he needs to, and I imagine they play him on the wing with Backlund and Monahan as their top 6 centers. They really needed a top 6 right winger too, right handed. Ferland was there cause he had solid chemistry with Gaudreau I imagine. They are a team loaded with left handed players. Frolik is left handed player playing right wing as well. Both of their top 6 centers are left handed. So essentially they had 6 left handed players in their top 6. Lindholm being right handed is a much needed shot. He is also 3 years younger than Ferland. I also wonder if this is a sell high thing on Ferland. Can he repeat his production from last year?

 

Calgary got another lefty on D though, and Carolina got another righty on D. So it's kinda weird from that angle. More deals to come from Carolina I bet. Skinner and Faulk are both still heavily rumored to be moved. They need that elusive top 6 center still. Teravainen was listed as center, but he took fewer than 50 faceoffs. Lol. Lindholm took near 800 faceoffs for them. So they lost 800 faceoffs and gained none back and for a team in desperate need for a center that's worrying. How sure are they Necas can play top 6 for them next year? That'd be a major gamble and generally nobody takes that risk, except Edmonton. All in all it's a fairly even deal imo. Calgary filled their needs better than Carolina did.

He took 793 draws last year and won 54.5% of them so, not classifying him as a center is not accurate - only two other Canes took more draws.

Whether Calgary elects to use him as a RW may be an option - but Calgary's top three centers last year were Monahan at 50.4%, Backlund at 50.0% and Jankowski at 48.8%....

So Lindholm is actually the strongest faceoff guy they have.

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Just listening (no idea why) to HC@noon and the Leafs blowers - Damian Cox - wondering what Calgary is doing?  My favorite question out of Toronto, the self-styled #proper-build market ever since they won a draft lottery lol.  Probably the leafst informed hockey market in the country, hands down.

Apparently if you listen to 'analyticz guys', Cox says that Hamilton is a top 5 D in the NHL.

 

Love these phantom references to mystery numbers that make players like this so much better than people realize.

But the actual numbers?  Not as abundant as the references to them.

Still waiting to see these 'underlying' numbers that make Hamilton 'all that'.

Wadr to him, he wasn't even the best defenseman on the Calgary Flames - that was Giordano - hands down - by a longshot, let alone top 5 in the NHL.

 

Love the ironing of a Leaf-blower like Cox wondering what Calgary is doing.....

Why aren't they signing all the 35+ yr olds?

 

Doogie was 21st in points, tied for 1st in goals... so I guess in TO that rounds to 5th? 

 

[JeremyCuddles]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

He took 793 draws last year and won 54.5% of them so, not classifying him as a center is not accurate - only two other Canes took more draws.

Whether Calgary elects to use him as a RW may be an option - but Calgary's top three centers last year were Monahan at 50.4%, Backlund at 50.0% and Jankowski at 48.8%....

So Lindholm is actually the strongest faceoff guy they have.

Yeah, but for a top 6 guy 800 isn't a whole lot. Bo took like 500 more, and he played 17 fewer games than Lindholm. Lindholm was center out of necessity not cause he was the best option. So yeah, I wouldn't classify him as a center. He can take faceoffs, which is exactly what I said in the part you bolded. Lol.

[420since1974]

As Peters has pencilled Lindholm in on the right side of Monahan/Gaudreau, my guess is that Lindholm will share face-off duties with Monahan, depending on which side the draw is.

[oldnews]

Dundon on SN - apparently Carolina has "won the summer" lol.

 

No.  They won a lottery pick.  Otherwise, have their management moves really earned them the hype?

I don't like the fact they were willing to lose Ron Francis.  Their coach also walked - and just took a couple key young assets with him in this trade.

They're making a lot of public statements to the effect of 'wake-up' calls to their players - which always goes over well.

 

I think they've gotten extremely fortunate to have Svechnikov land there - otherwise, the previous group build a good group of young players and had them on every bit the trajectory they're now on.  Not a fan of a group like this stepping in, making pretenses to remake a franchise like that.  The previous group deserves credit, particularly for great drafting - and some great development - when you look at the young, homegrown defensemen and solid group of talented forwards, many of both drafted well below their trajectories.

[Zoolander]

13 minutes ago, SamJamIam said:

Agreed.  I don't think Calgary did poorly with this trade but I can't see it making them any more relevant.  Calgary fans were also putting Adam Fox on a pedastal.  Some are likely pretty pissed he's gone while others may be waiting to see if Lindholm and Hanafin can improve.  Both good players but I suspect the fanbase will turn on them quickly because of expectations inadvertantly set by the trade.

Yee the expectations will be high for sure, and I know Carolina's goaltending is bad, but given Lindholm and Hanifin's +- I can see them being a liability

[oldnews]

7 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Yeah, but for a top 6 guy 800 isn't a whole lot. Bo took like 500 more, and he played 17 fewer games than Lindholm. Lindholm was center out of necessity not cause he was the best option. So yeah, I wouldn't classify him as a center. He can take faceoffs, which is exactly what I said in the part you bolded. Lol.

"Lol."

 

There was no "out of necessity" need to use Linholm at center - the absolute opposite was the case.  

 

Carolina had two other outstanding faceoff guys - Staal at 56.6% and Ryan at 56.5% - actually four other solid faceoff guys - otherwise Lindholm likely would have taken even more draws.  In fact, Victor Rask was also 54.9% and took over 700 draws. Marcus Kruger played a half season and was 55.4%.  Few teams could as easily afford to move Lindholm to wing and have that many quality faceoff guys in any event - and yet Lindholm was 3rd in that group.

Fact is, he was and is a center and he instantly becomes the best faceoff guy on the Flames.

 

Horvat was the 1C last year.  Of course he took more draws.  800 is still very significant - middle six center volume of draws.

 

Regardless of where Calgary plays him, he has the versatility of a natural center with the two way game and strength in the dot to be an excellent option there for them.

[rekker]

A lot of chatter on this trade. It's such an interesting one where people call a distinct winner on both sides. That's how ranging it is. Ultimately it will play out on the ice. It will probably take the whole season to evaluate.

[JeremyCuddles]

Just now, oldnews said:

"Lol."

 

There was no "out of necessity" need to use Linholm at center - the absolute opposite was the case.  

 

Carolina had two other outstanding faceoff guys - Staal at 56.6% and Ryan at 56.5% - actually four other solid faceoff guys - otherwise Lindholm likely would have taken even more draws.  In fact, Victor Rask was also 54.9% and took over 700 draws. Marcus Kruger played a half season and was 55.4%.  Few teams could as easily afford to move Lindholm to wing and have that many quality faceoff guys in any event - and yet Lindholm was 3rd in that group.

Fact is, he was and is a center and he instantly becomes the best faceoff guy on the Flames.

 

Horvat was the 1C last year.  Of course he took more draws.  800 is still very significant - middle six center volume of draws.

 

Regardless of where Calgary plays him, he has the versatility of a natural center with the two way game and strength in the dot to be an excellent option there for them.

1c that played like 1 minute more per game than Lindholm, played 17 fewer games and still almost doubled his faceoff totals. The title sounds more impressive than his playtime actually says. Sutter, our 3rd line center, took more faceoffs than Lindholm. Their 3rd/4th line center Ryan, took more faceoffs than Lindholm. Rask, 3rd/4th line center took just as many faceoffs. Staal, their 2nd line center, TOOK MORE FACEOFFS THAN Lindholm. He wasn't a true center and yes, I already said he can take faceoffs but isn't a true center. Just cause I don't "classify" him as a center doesn't mean he can't or shouldn't play it at all. Dunno why this is upsetting you so much. Lol

[drofssalg]

See Elliott's 31 Thoughts on Sportsnet. He gives the insight to this trade. Hamilton wanted out and Fox wasn't going to sign. Ferland was the cost of doing business. Carolina traded 2 players that rejected contract offers. Seems like both teams were in a tough spot. So while this is a decent hockey trade it was also a trade of necessity. 

 

The Flames missed the playoffs last year so change is needed. There is no way the Flames are going to go full rebuild when you have Giordano, Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund, Tkachuk. So they have to try something to get better. They paid a fair price for Hamilton but over paid for Hamonic. They really did not have any trade pieces so they took advantage of the situation with Hamilton and Fox. This seems logical to me. It helps that their new coach does know both of these players they just traded for (not often a team has that kind of insight on a trade). 

 

Honestly given the circumstances for both Calgary and Carolina, I see this trade as a win for both. When life gives you lemons you make lemonade... I think it benefits both franchises. 

[JeremyCuddles]

15 minutes ago, drofssalg said:

See Elliott's 31 Thoughts on Sportsnet. He gives the insight to this trade. Hamilton wanted out and Fox wasn't going to sign. Ferland was the cost of doing business. Carolina traded 2 players that rejected contract offers. Seems like both teams were in a tough spot. So while this is a decent hockey trade it was also a trade of necessity. 

 

The Flames missed the playoffs last year so change is needed. There is no way the Flames are going to go full rebuild when you have Giordano, Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund, Tkachuk. So they have to try something to get better. They paid a fair price for Hamilton but over paid for Hamonic. They really did not have any trade pieces so they took advantage of the situation with Hamilton and Fox. This seems logical to me. It helps that their new coach does know both of these players they just traded for (not often a team has that kind of insight on a trade). 

 

Honestly given the circumstances for both Calgary and Carolina, I see this trade as a win for both. When life gives you lemons you make lemonade... I think it benefits both franchises. 

Change of scenery trade, yeah. Fact it's such a divisive trade also speaks to the trade being a bit fair for both ends.

[oldnews]

23 minutes ago, Zoolander said:

Yee the expectations will be high for sure, and I know Carolina's goaltending is bad, but given Lindholm and Hanifin's +- I can see them being a liability

Meh - plus/minus can be highly misleading and oversimplified - are relative statistics (to team-mates and context).

 

If you're looking for liabilities in Carolina - Jeff Skinner had 65.8% ozone starts, his corsi was a 10% dropoff (55.8) and was nevertheless a team worst -27.

 

3.6 on ice goals against per 60 was also the worst on the Canes.  2.4 gf per 60 was 14th on that team.

 

But teams are supposed to want to strip mine some key young assets to acquire one year of 6 million cap who scored 49pts in that context.

 

Justin Faulk was -26, 58.3% ozone starts, 3.4 gaa per 60...  Fleury may have had a negative impact on Faulk's numbers, but on the other hand Slavvin balances against that effect imo.

 

 

Michael Backlund was -21 - lowest on the Flames - and yet he's anything but a 'liability'.  It's really relative to linemates, opposition, role, etc.

 

 

 

 

[Gaudette Celly]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

Why aren't they signing all the 35+ yr olds?

Leafs Pokemon'd the market.

[HI5]

Now, Bill Peters is saying he told Tkachuk to practice playing on the right side this summer so he can slot in the top line. So I’m guessing Lindholm will be second or third line center? 

 

Also so management and coach sound confident about signing someone to help the PP/offence in free agency..they may have an agreement in place with someone to round out top 6.

 

Doesn't look like they’re targeting any goalies, which will once again be the downfall.

[burrardstreetbullies]

this is great, calgary is now the softest team in the western conference with ferland and hamilton gone.    easy points for the canucks next year

[Sean Monahan]

7 minutes ago, burrardstreetbullies said:

this is great, calgary is now the softest team in the western conference with ferland and hamilton gone.    easy points for the canucks next year

Parting with Hamilton would make them less soft. He’s Charmin ultra-soft. 

[Nave]

4 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

How so? They got a top 6 player and pretty much another Dougie Hamilton. Lol. If anything this was just a change of scenery trade. I guess you can give the advantage to Carolina. But for that to happen you gotta imagine Hanifin has tapped out on his potential already as a decent scoring top 4 guy and Ferlund needs to keep producing with a new team away from Gaudreau. Which is a lot to hope for. Carolina wanted to save some dollars, and stay competitive. They kinda did that. Calgary got a potentially cheaper Hamilton and a top 6 scoring winger. Neither side got a whole lot better or weaker.

They didn't have to add Fox. Hamilton is way better than Hanifin. Gaudreau will struggle without Ferland's protection. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, NaveJoseph said:

They didn't have to add Fox. Hamilton is way better than Hanifin. Gaudreau will struggle without Ferland's protection. 

I don't get why the Flames added Ferland too.  Hamilton should be worth both the Cane's assets.  He's a far superior player (points and plus minus show this) than Hanifin.  If any team added, it should have been the Canes.  It's like the Flames added to dump Hamilton.  I don't get this trade from the Flames POV at all.  They should have traded Hamilton for a goalie! 

[HI5]

5 minutes ago, NaveJoseph said:

They didn't have to add Fox. Hamilton is way better than Hanifin. Gaudreau will struggle without Ferland's protection. 

They prob could have flipped Fox for a pick. But Gaudreau did fine with Hudler on his line before Ferland, I think that was the year they beat us in the playoffs.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, HI5 said:

They prob could have flipped Fox for a pick. But Gaudreau did fine with Hudler on his line before Ferland, I think that was the year they beat us in the playoffs.

Having Ferland, whether he's on a player's line or not, does influence the game.  He can target the top players on the opposing team with big hits.  That, in itself, is protecting his team mates.  Plus, Ferland scores 20 goals and has the aerobic capacity to play top minutes.  I don't get why the Flames would dump him into this trade.