[Signing] Flames re-sign Elias Lindholm

[rekker]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Not even close.  Nylander is looking north of 7.  Marner is looking north of 8.  

My thinking as well. If Nylander doesn't sign a bridge deal then he is worth more than seven. If Nylander gets seven per then Marner may be closer to Draisaitl money. Will be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

[Rob_Zepp]

2 hours ago, HI5 said:

My thoughts were it was a great deal at that price point for this player. Term is a bit long but if he consistently produces its a steal. 

 

But everyone here seems to think otherwise..what am I missing 

Well, here is input from a Canes fan.   Lindholm was a frustrating player as he tantalizes and then goes dormant for stretches.   The term coined by Matt Karash ( who follows Canes religiously) is the "Elias - he of the Invisibility Cloak once hitting starts".  The most worrisome thing is fans started to wonder about his commitment to playing through tougher situations - it showed up glaringly in games that started to get chippy.   Even his FO% would dip in tougher games.    

 

He is still young - 24 this season.   He has 5 NHL seasons under his belt with an overall 64 goals and 124 assists in 374 games (which makes him a career per 82 games of 14 goals and 27 assists.....interesting in fewer NHL games someone like Baertschi, currently 25, has 57 goals and 65 assists or a career per 82 game rate of 18 goals and 21 assists....pretty much identical point totals...if Canucks had given Baertschi that contract people would have lost their minds).    

 

I am not so much of the "thinking otherwise" but if ever a player was screaming "bridge contract", Elias was.   

[rekker]

1 minute ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Well, here is input from a Canes fan.   Lindholm was a frustrating player as he tantalizes and then goes dormant for stretches.   The term coined by Matt Karash ( who follows Canes religiously) is the "Elias - he of the Invisibility Cloak once hitting starts".  The most worrisome thing is fans started to wonder about his commitment to playing through tougher situations - it showed up glaringly in games that started to get chippy.   Even his FO% would dip in tougher games.    

 

He is still young - 24 this season.   He has 5 NHL seasons under his belt with an overall 64 goals and 124 assists in 374 games (which makes him a career per 82 games of 14 goals and 27 assists.....interesting in fewer NHL games someone like Baertschi, currently 25, has 57 goals and 65 assists or a career per 82 game rate of 18 goals and 21 assists....pretty much identical point totals...if Canucks had given Baertschi that contract people would have lost their minds).    

 

I am not so much of the "thinking otherwise" but if ever a player was screaming "bridge contract", Elias was.   

I always love comparing Bear's point totals. Not saying he is the almighty but his ppg numbers always compare well to others. He isn't exactly what I look for in a player but he has undeniable skills. I hope he puts it together this year. 

[Rob_Zepp]

1 minute ago, rekker said:

I always love comparing Bear's point totals. Not saying he is the almighty but his ppg numbers always compare well to others. He isn't exactly what I look for in a player but he has undeniable skills. I hope he puts it together this year. 

Thing I like about Baer as what was holding him back in Calgary was his lack of ability to get into the "tough" areas.   He has transformed himself into a player that gets a lot of his goals inside of a few feet of the goal line.   Freak injury luck last year (none of those nicks would be considered due to his style of play) as his pace was looking like certainly 25 goals, if not more, was within reach.   

[canuckpuckluck1]

5 hours ago, Odd. said:

I guess they're hoping he becomes a 50+ point forward moving forward. We'll see how it turns out. They still need to re-sign Hanifin and he is going to want more than the cap space Calgary has atm.

 

They got Neal probably to play with Gaudreau and Monahan, so that'll boost their scoring a bit. Also, their goaltending is a HUGE question mark. If Smith gets injured, whatever chances they had in making the playoffs becomes non-existant. They are relying on a 36 year old goaltender.. with an inexperienced back-up behind him, and no goalie prospect in close proximity to challenge those two. 

 

Virtually no scoring depth after Gaudreau, Monahan, Backlund and Tkachuk. They also don't have anyone in their pipeline that could come in and help them. Very bleak outlook, I'm curious to see how their season plays out.

They have Mason McDonald the prospect chosen by the Flames over Thatcher Demko....ha ha that one always gives me belly laughs!!!!

[Podz92]

Just curious as to what people think...who got the better deal? Anaheim signing Henrique 5 years 29.1 million or Calgary signing Lindholm 6 years 29.1 million? Which would you prefer on your team?

[danaimo]

2 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Jankowski and Bennett down the middle also.

Not sure that Jankowski will be in the picture some October.  The Flames have only $7.2m in projected cap space with 20 players signed. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flames

They still need to sign Jankowski, Kulak, Hathaway and of course Hanifin.  They will have to do some serious surgery to get under the salary cap by the start of the season.

[wildcam]

11 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Wow, that is a pretty big commitment to a guy that wasn't quite yet showing the level of play you want on a nightly basis.   Liked him as a Cane but was worried how he disappeared in traffic.    I wonder what this does for the Flames other re-signing players over next year or so.   I didn't see anything here beyond a Baer contract to be honest.

 

Does Horvat's deal look like a bargain right now or what?

I agree Horvat's deal looks good for the next 5 years at 5.5 million..

Lindholm last 4 seasons point  total - 45 - 44 - 39 -39-- 

[JeremyCuddles]

Pretty good deal for a guy that can play a bit of center and a bit of wing. He's versatile in where he can play. His point totals don't blow your mind, but for a second liner his cap hit is really solid. Good deal imo. If he can keep his current production. If he can become a top 6 center for them and put up 55ish points this'll be a steal of a deal.

[Rob_Zepp]

One interesting thing to watch in Calgary now is how do they make the rest of their roster work....the Flames now have $8,013,290 to sign about seven more RFAs.   Noah Hanifin will want at least $3.5 to $4 on a longer term deal so that will take almost half of the remaining CAP.  Flames will also need to give Matthew Tkachuk an extension this upcoming season, and that will potentially be around $5-6 million.

 

They need to make some moves and/or buy some of Marian Hossa's old socks and get Troy Brouwer to wear them.

[Gaudette Celly]

3 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

One interesting thing to watch in Calgary now is how do they make the rest of their roster work....the Flames now have $8,013,290 to sign about seven more RFAs.   Noah Hanifin will want at least $3.5 to $4 on a longer term deal so that will take almost half of the remaining CAP.  Flames will also need to give Matthew Tkachuk an extension this upcoming season, and that will potentially be around $5-6 million.

 

They need to make some moves and/or buy some of Marian Hossa's old socks and get Troy Brouwer to wear them.

Capfriendly showing $7.2mil left to sign Hanifin, Jankowski, a dman (likely Kulak; Valimaki and Andersson are more $), and assuming a low-cost backup goalie already included (Gillies).  Hanifin is likely to cost them $5mil+ long term so they might have to go with a bridge for now, as Jankowski could be around the 2-mark, with Kulak for peanuts.  Finding a way to dispose of Brouwer would certainly help, but they'd need to include an asset on the way out, and they're already out their 2nd rounder next year.  And yeah, Chucky next year's going to need a big chunk and they don't have much coming off aside from Smith and 18YO's $1.9mil.

 

In other Flames news, re. their 3 first-rounders from the 2013 draft:  Poirier now a UFA, Klimchuk re-signed 1 year @ $700K, and Shinkaruk qualified.

[Chuppa]

I agree with you on that I watched a handful of his games last year and he definitely took a step back. Maybe the flames will take Nilsson off are hands lol

[Chuppa]

18 hours ago, DeNiro said:

So their depth is now:

 

Monahan

Backlund

Lindholm

Ryan

 

Pretty deep down the middle. Add Gaudreau and Tkachuk on the left and Neal and Frolik on the right, and they're definitely going to score more. I would expect a return to the playoffs this year for them.

I agree, As long as Mike Smith can stay healthy I definitely think they will make the playoffs. 

[oldnews]

21 hours ago, HI5 said:

My thoughts were it was a great deal at that price point for this player. Term is a bit long but if he consistently produces its a steal. 

 

But everyone here seems to think otherwise..what am I missing 

I don't think you're missing anything.

 

This is a 23 yr old with 188 NHL points, averaging 40+ pts as a 19,20,21,22,23 yr old.

 

He was their third leading penalty killing forward.

 

He was 54.5% in the faceoff circle.

 

Had 24 even strength assists.

 

And the Carolina side of the story here appears to be that he's 'soft' - however there were only 4 Canes with more hits than him (he had 98) - so if he's 'soft', what does that say about that team as a whole, and what are people's expectations of him?  I always prefer to look at the general objective outcomes of a player over anecdotal stories about a single aspect of a player's game.  I can see why Canes fans might want to comfort themselves though - trading this player at this stage was a huge risk, particularly when the return was a less talented and older pending UFA.

 

Hard not to like this trade for Calgary, and regarding the contract - all indications through a large sample of 374 games as a very young NHLer are that this is a very talented young guy who is worth these terms - consistent production, good underlying numbers, already a career 52.7% faceoff guy (thousands of NHL draws), and a solid two way player who hasn't touched his prime yet.

 

By comparison, Backlund was just establishing himself in the NHL at this phase of his career.

 

 

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I don't think you're missing anything.

 

This is a 23 yr old with 188 NHL points, averaging 40+ pts as a 19,20,21,22,23 yr old.

 

He was their third leading penalty killing forward.

 

He was 54.5% in the faceoff circle.

 

Had 24 even strength assists.

 

And the Carolina side of the story here appears to be that he's 'soft' - however there were only 4 Canes with more hits than him (he had 98) - so if he's 'soft', what does that say about that team as a whole, and what are people's expectations of him?  I always prefer to look at the general objective outcomes of a player over anecdotal stories about a single aspect of a player's game.  I can see why Canes fans might want to comfort themselves though - trading this player at this stage was a huge risk, particularly when the return was a less talented and older pending UFA.

 

Hard not to like this trade for Calgary, and regarding the contract - all indications through a large sample of 374 games as a very young NHL are that this is a very talented young guy who is worth these terms - consistent production, good underlying numbers, already a career 52.7% faceoff guy (thousands of NHL draws), and a solid two way player who hasn't touched his prime yet.

 

By comparison, Backlund was just establishing himself in the NHL at this phase of his career.

 

 

I'm not a fan of either team so I don't have a stake in it, but I do have to wonder with this contract why wasn't a deal done in Carolina? its not like its an outrageous ask. Sure the Carolina management group may be wrong but they clearly didn't rate him as high as others but to me its not an unreasonable position to be happy with Ferland and that particular swap makes me think "toughness" was part of the issue, particularly if you're thinking playoffs. Sure Ferland's not as skilled but he is still capable of 20 goals/45 points and some grit, thats hardly a bad return for a guy thats less than 3 years older and still a young player. But getting a C for a winger is always nice. I just don't see this as a guaranteed slam dunk for Calgary, both Hanafin and Lindolm have a lot to prove. 

 

We'll find out but for me I see a combo of Ferland and Doogie being able to put up more points than Hanifin and Lindholm, at least next year. 

 

 

 

 

[oldnews]

40 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm not a fan of either team so I don't have a stake in it, but I do have to wonder with this contract why wasn't a deal done in Carolina? its not like its an outrageous ask. Sure the Carolina management group may be wrong but they clearly didn't rate him as high as others but to me its not an unreasonable position to be happy with Ferland and that particular swap makes me think "toughness" was part of the issue, particularly if you're thinking playoffs. Sure Ferland's not as skilled but he is still capable of 20 goals/45 points and some grit, thats hardly a bad return for a guy thats less than 3 years older and still a young player. But getting a C for a winger is always nice. I just don't see this as a guaranteed slam dunk for Calgary, both Hanafin and Lindolm have a lot to prove. 

 

We'll find out but for me I see a combo of Ferland and Doogie being able to put up more points than Hanifin and Lindholm, at least next year. 

 

 

I wouldn't recommend that bet if Lindholm is in fact used as the RW on the Monahan Gaudreau line.

 

In any event, few of us here are fans of either of those teams - in fact Calgary, being a rival, is less likely to get a reasonable hearing on these boards where people are itching to call whatever they do a loss.

 

If we're assessing things at the time they happen, then the bigger risk in Calgary imo was signing James Neal after Ryan (and the cap tightness they've put themselves in)  - whereas moving Ferland as the principal in the Lindholm part of this deal - was a no-brainer for Calgary, and absolutely the case if Ferland elects not to re-sign with Carolina.  In any event Ferland is 3 yrs older, with half the NHL production, and is a pending UFA.   Lindholm has evidenced multiples more upside throughout his career - a heavy price to pay for Calgary's Trent Klatt.

 

Carolina has taken the far more significant risk, the shorter term payoffs, and has overspent on grit, something you just don't use a 5th overall pick like Lindholm to acquire. 

 

I really liked the base that Ron Francis built - through the draft - in Carolina - lots of good, young talent that this new management group may be able to coast on, however, I don't have a lot of confidence in their ability to improve upon the trajectory Francis set.   The moves they seem intent to make, and the indcations that they're looking for shorter term results / are being impatient with their premier young assets = warning signs imo.

 

 

 

[JM_]

59 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I wouldn't recommend that bet if Lindholm is in fact used as the RW on the Monahan Gaudreau line.

 

In any event, few of us here are fans of either of those teams - in fact Calgary, being a rival, is less likely to get a reasonable hearing on these boards where people are itching to call whatever they do a loss.

 

If we're assessing things at the time they happen, then the bigger risk in Calgary imo was signing James Neal after Ryan (and the cap tightness they've put themselves in)  - whereas moving Ferland as the principal in the Lindholm part of this deal - was a no-brainer for Calgary, and absolutely the case if Ferland elects not to re-sign with Carolina.  In any event Ferland is 3 yrs older, with half the NHL production, and is a pending UFA.   Lindholm has evidenced multiples more upside throughout his career - a heavy price to pay for Calgary's Trent Klatt.

 

Carolina has taken the far more significant risk, the shorter term payoffs, and has overspent on grit, something you just don't use a 5th overall pick like Lindholm to acquire. 

 

I really liked the base that Ron Francis built - through the draft - in Carolina - lots of good, young talent that this new management group may be able to coast on, however, I don't have a lot of confidence in their ability to improve upon the trajectory Francis set.   The moves they seem intent to make, and the indcations that they're looking for shorter term results / are being impatient with their premier young assets = warning signs imo.

 

 

 

oh for sure its shorter term thinking. Ownership has its stamp all over this. 

 

Adding De Haan was certainly a move to give Darling a fighting chance in net and maybe a paring with Hamilton too in order to plug some of those defensive holes they had. I doubt Carolina is done yet, I could see them adding more veterans before the summer is over. Can we start a Gagner to Carolina rumour ?

 

Anyway it will be interesting to follow. 

 

 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

I wouldn't recommend that bet if Lindholm is in fact used as the RW on the Monahan Gaudreau line.

 

In any event, few of us here are fans of either of those teams - in fact Calgary, being a rival, is less likely to get a reasonable hearing on these boards where people are itching to call whatever they do a loss.

 

If we're assessing things at the time they happen, then the bigger risk in Calgary imo was signing James Neal after Ryan (and the cap tightness they've put themselves in)  - whereas moving Ferland as the principal in the Lindholm part of this deal - was a no-brainer for Calgary, and absolutely the case if Ferland elects not to re-sign with Carolina.  In any event Ferland is 3 yrs older, with half the NHL production, and is a pending UFA.   Lindholm has evidenced multiples more upside throughout his career - a heavy price to pay for Calgary's Trent Klatt.

 

Carolina has taken the far more significant risk, the shorter term payoffs, and has overspent on grit, something you just don't use a 5th overall pick like Lindholm to acquire. 

 

I really liked the base that Ron Francis built - through the draft - in Carolina - lots of good, young talent that this new management group may be able to coast on, however, I don't have a lot of confidence in their ability to improve upon the trajectory Francis set.   The moves they seem intent to make, and the indcations that they're looking for shorter term results / are being impatient with their premier young assets = warning signs imo.

 

 

 

True, many of us hate Calgary.  I agree with most you say, except the Ferland stuff.  He might not sign in Carolina ... okay.  However, he score 20, and is a friggin’ beast on the forecheck.  He’s much closer to Lucic in his prime than to Klatt.  I think anyway.  I’m shocked, actually, the Flames moved him.  Now who do they have that can play top six and do what he did?  Not 

Tkatchuk.

[Ryan Strome]

3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm not a fan of either team so I don't have a stake in it, but I do have to wonder with this contract why wasn't a deal done in Carolina? its not like its an outrageous ask. Sure the Carolina management group may be wrong but they clearly didn't rate him as high as others but to me its not an unreasonable position to be happy with Ferland and that particular swap makes me think "toughness" was part of the issue, particularly if you're thinking playoffs. Sure Ferland's not as skilled but he is still capable of 20 goals/45 points and some grit, thats hardly a bad return for a guy thats less than 3 years older and still a young player. But getting a C for a winger is always nice. I just don't see this as a guaranteed slam dunk for Calgary, both Hanafin and Lindolm have a lot to prove. 

 

We'll find out but for me I see a combo of Ferland and Doogie being able to put up more points than Hanifin and Lindholm, at least next year. 

 

 

 

 

No he isn't. Those numbers are because he was playing with two very good players in Monahan and Gudreau. James Neal will likely score 35 or more playing with those two.

[Ryan Strome]

3 hours ago, oldnews said:

I wouldn't recommend that bet if Lindholm is in fact used as the RW on the Monahan Gaudreau line.

 

In any event, few of us here are fans of either of those teams - in fact Calgary, being a rival, is less likely to get a reasonable hearing on these boards where people are itching to call whatever they do a loss.

 

If we're assessing things at the time they happen, then the bigger risk in Calgary imo was signing James Neal after Ryan (and the cap tightness they've put themselves in)  - whereas moving Ferland as the principal in the Lindholm part of this deal - was a no-brainer for Calgary, and absolutely the case if Ferland elects not to re-sign with Carolina.  In any event Ferland is 3 yrs older, with half the NHL production, and is a pending UFA.   Lindholm has evidenced multiples more upside throughout his career - a heavy price to pay for Calgary's Trent Klatt.

 

Carolina has taken the far more significant risk, the shorter term payoffs, and has overspent on grit, something you just don't use a 5th overall pick like Lindholm to acquire. 

 

I really liked the base that Ron Francis built - through the draft - in Carolina - lots of good, young talent that this new management group may be able to coast on, however, I don't have a lot of confidence in their ability to improve upon the trajectory Francis set.   The moves they seem intent to make, and the indcations that they're looking for shorter term results / are being impatient with their premier young assets = warning signs imo.

 

 

 

I actually think he will play with Backlund and Tkachuk and Frolik will  be moved to the 3rd line or be traded.