[Article] The Misunderstood Matter of Olli Joulevi

[stawns]

22 hours ago, 250Integra said:

Great read. Now I know Mikhail Sergachev has another name!

Can't say I think Sergachev is all that great, to be honest.

[higgyfan]

49 minutes ago, stawns said:

Can't say I think Sergachev is all that great, to be honest.

Keeping in mind that he's just 20yrs, I'd say he's coming along nicely.  Admittedly, he is playing on a high scoring team, so his points are high, but he is also the youngest player on the team. Considering there are only 3 dmen in his draft that have played a significant number of games so far, I'd say Serg's jump to the NHL has be quite impressive.

 

If he were playing in the Canucks lineup, fans would be pretty happy with him.

[stawns]

11 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Keeping in mind that he's just 20yrs, I'd say he's coming along nicely.  Admittedly, he is playing on a high scoring team, so his points are high, but he is also the youngest player on the team. Considering there are only 3 dmen in his draft that have played a significant number of games so far, I'd say Serg's jump to the NHL has be quite impressive.

 

If he were playing in the Canucks lineup, fans would be pretty happy with him.

If he were in the Canucks org he'd likely be in Utica because they don't have the players to shelter him like TB does.

 

I don't judge a dman by points, I judge them by their defensive ability first and foremost and he was not good in the 10+ games I watched him in this past season.  Same goes for Chycrun, who I thought was awful

[Losing With Pride]

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 9:34 PM, ruilin96 said:

With Tkachuk on the 2017 line up, it may give us the few extra wins that put us behind the #7 pick. Rangers got Coyotes pick at #7, Rangers was rumour to be targeting EP. By the time we pick, EP will be gone and there will not be a Tkachuk EP and Boeser line. 

This is true.  I should have said all things aside.

 

However, what if Tkachuk was sent back to London.  You just never know.

 

But that line would be sick.

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

Can't say I think Sergachev is all that great, to be honest.

I was hoping we'd trade Tanev for a pick that year and select both OJ and him (and I'd still be happy to have both) but yes, he's vastly overrated by many on here by virtue of putting up some points, on the best team in the league, that has a tonne of offense, in a VERY sheltered role.

 

He's not some can't miss, top pair offensive D that many on CDC seem to think he is.

[stawns]

26 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I was hoping we'd trade Tanev for a pick that year and select both OJ and him (and I'd still be happy to have both) but yes, he's vastly overrated by many on here by virtue of putting up some points, on the best team in the league, that has a tonne of offense, in a VERY sheltered role.

 

He's not some can't miss, top pair offensive D that many on CDC seem to think he is.

Agreed, I'm not saying I think he's not going to be good, I do and it would have been sweet to pick them both.  I just think OJ was the better pick and will be the better dmen when both careers are over.

 

First to the NHL doesn't mean better.

[Dazzle]

Just now, stawns said:

Agreed, I'm not saying I think he's not going to be good, I do and it would have been sweet to pick them both.  I just think OJ was the better pick and will be the better dmen when both careers are over.

 

First to the NHL doesn't mean better.

Now I am on the OJ bandwagon like you are, but I do think you are being biased.

 

Sergachev is good and he is benefiting from playing in an environment that will bail him out from mistakes. This can be good or bad. If he falters too much, he will get demoted, much like any other player would.

 

Chychurin on the other hand is playing on what was a pretty subpar team (they were better this year - almost made the playoffs). Nevertheless, he is a losing environment, but he's done pretty well for himself.

 

Sergachev and Chychurin turned out pretty good on their respective teams. There is no reason, aside from injuries, that Juolevi won't succeed in the NHL. He has the pedigree and showed that in a small sample that he could play in the AHL. Juolevi, after all, has played for years against men. He will do fine.

[stawns]

Just now, Dazzle said:

Now I am on the OJ bandwagon like you are, but I do think you are being biased.

 

Sergachev is good and he is benefiting from playing in an environment that will bail him out from mistakes. This can be good or bad. If he falters too much, he will get demoted, much like any other player would.

 

Chychurin on the other hand is playing on what was a pretty subpar team (they were better this year - almost made the playoffs). Nevertheless, he is a losing environment, but he's done pretty well for himself.

 

Sergachev and Chychurin turned out pretty good on their respective teams. There is no reason, aside from injuries, that Juolevi won't succeed in the NHL. He has the pedigree and showed that in a small sample that he could play in the AHL. Juolevi, after all, has played for years against men. He will do fine.

Chycrun is ok on offense, but has been a train wreck, defensively, in every coyotes game I've watched.  I agree he's on a team that can't shelter him, but he shouldn't be in the NHL either

[Alflives]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

Chycrun is ok on offense, but has been a train wreck, defensively, in every coyotes game I've watched.  I agree he's on a team that can't shelter him, but he shouldn't be in the NHL either

Some team’s foolishly play guys before they’re ready,  

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Some team’s foolishly play guys before they’re ready,  

You mean like the Canucks did with Virtanen and McCann?

[stawns]

1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

You mean like the Canucks did with Virtanen and McCann?

I think McCann could have benefitted from another year, but I get why they didn't leave Jake in Calgary.  That said, they should have conferred with Jake's agent, who then should have engineered a trade out of Calgary, and kept him in Jr for another year.

 

[aGENT]

17 hours ago, stawns said:

I think McCann could have benefitted from another year, but I get why they didn't leave Jake in Calgary.  That said, they should have conferred with Jake's agent, who then should have engineered a trade out of Calgary, and kept him in Jr for another year.

 

Agreed. And they very well may have... And Calgary may have told them to pound sand. None of us really knows what happened behind the scenes there.

[DeNiro]

18 hours ago, higgyfan said:

You mean like the Canucks did with Virtanen and McCann?

I'm honestly not sure that another year in junior would have helped Virtanen. 

 

He was big enough and fast enough to play pro, his challenge was developing his pro game and learning the minor detail stuff. I think it was unlikely that he was able to do that in junior. He more likely would have continued to develop bad habits IMO.

 

It was one of his weaknesses when we drafted him. Many criticized his game for his poor decision making and hockey IQ. Benning and co were willing to look the other way because of the other attributes he brought. 

 

Green is the best coach to try and get him to play the style he needs to though. He's in the best place he can be to try and get his game to an NHL level. It's up to him to do the rest.

 

 

[Boudrias]

38 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I'm honestly not sure that another year in junior would have helped Virtanen. 

 

He was big enough and fast enough to play pro, his challenge was developing his pro game and learning the minor detail stuff. I think it was unlikely that he was able to do that in junior. He more likely would have continued to develop bad habits IMO.

 

It was one of his weaknesses when we drafted him. Many criticized his game for his poor decision making and hockey IQ. Benning and co were willing to look the other way because of the other attributes he brought. 

 

Green is the best coach to try and get him to play the style he needs to though. He's in the best place he can be to try and get his game to an NHL level. It's up to him to do the rest.

 

 

What he needed was a top coach who could have done what Green had to 3 years later. I admit that I did not see many of Jake's games in Calgary but what I did see was the same player who broke in with the Canucks. Calgary coaching seemed to be fixated on their top line. Might of value if fans go back and watch some of his first NHL games and realize how far he has come. 

[Jav_11]

I like the tools Jake brings but I'm not sure he will ever have the IQ to be an impact player the way everyone dreams for him to be. 

[Ray_Cathode]

On 6/5/2019 at 8:50 PM, goalie13 said:

Agreed.

 

Here's the article...

 

 

It is too early in the Canucks rebuild to be surrendering any young assets.  Our stockpile of young players and prospects is way too thin - this is where all those draft picks and young guys like Forsling and McCann that Benning wasted on guys like Vey and Gudbranson are coming home to roost. Now, don't take that wrong, I think Benning's hand was forced by the unrealistic expectations of ownership - Benning has done pretty well with his picks - especially considering how the NHL has treated Vancouver in the lottery - but Boeser, Hughes, and Pettersson come to mind as guys playing above the spot they were picked at, and I consider Tryamkin and Juolevi open questions that may turn out very, very well.

[goalie13]

3 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said:

It is too early in the Canucks rebuild to be surrendering any young assets.  Our stockpile of young players and prospects is way too thin - this is where all those draft picks and young guys like Forsling and McCann that Benning wasted on guys like Vey and Gudbranson are coming home to roost. Now, don't take that wrong, I think Benning's hand was forced by the unrealistic expectations of ownership - Benning has done pretty well with his picks - especially considering how the NHL has treated Vancouver in the lottery - but Boeser, Hughes, and Pettersson come to mind as guys playing above the spot they were picked at, and I consider Tryamkin and Juolevi open questions that may turn out very, very well.

The only thing I was agreeing with was that the article in the original post wasn't going to where the OP intended.  He since fixed it.

[Ray_Cathode]

7 minutes ago, goalie13 said:

The only thing I was agreeing with was that the article in the original post wasn't going to where the OP intended.  He since fixed it.

Got it.

[Hairy Kneel]

On 6/8/2019 at 7:34 AM, stawns said:

Can't say I think Sergachev is all that great, to be honest.

	NHL Totals		158	15	57	72	66		21	3	4	7	12
2017-18	Tampa Bay Lightning	NHL	79	9	31	40	38	11	17	2	3	5	12
2018-19	Tampa Bay Lightning	NHL	75	6	26	32	28	12	4	1	1	2	0

He looked great in the playoffs, especially when things went up tempo, was fun to watch.

[aGENT]

34 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

	NHL Totals		158	15	57	72	66		21	3	4	7	12
2017-18	Tampa Bay Lightning	NHL	79	9	31	40	38	11	17	2	3	5	12
2018-19	Tampa Bay Lightning	NHL	75	6	26	32	28	12	4	1	1	2	0

He looked great in the playoffs, especially when things went up tempo, was fun to watch.

Highly sheltered on a high octane offensive team. Don't get me wrong, I was hoping to trade Tanev for a 1st that year and take both him and Juolevi and would still be happy to have both but Serg's overrated on CDC for his offensive output on a very good team in said sheltered role. He's more than an adventure in his own end and that's against generally middling opposition.