Burnsey Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 "The National Hockey League believes in Arizona as an NHL market" *shrug* No, no it's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I thought it was 50 mil in losses or 5 years, so if they reach 50 in like 2 or 3 years, they could move early. I could be wrong, but that's what I thought the terms were. Either way, the citizens of glendale are going to have to cut funding for schools, firemen, police, emts, etc to pay for the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
мeтpо Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 If they feel it will work there good for them. It's not your money why are you trash talking them? Maybe it will work, maybe it won't but good for them for finally getting something done regarding it. I hope Phoenix has a good future and can attract enough people to turn into a good hockey market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklax Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 that's what i thought too, but here's the terms: Critics have noted that IceArizona, formerly known as Renaissance Sports and Entertainment, has a five-year out clause it can exercise if its losses should equal or exceed $50 million over that span http://sports.yahoo....-192414303.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Mind Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I feel bad for all the citizens that have to lose out on much more important things just to keep them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 If they feel it will work there good for them. It's not your money why are you trash talking them? Maybe it will work, maybe it won't but good for them for finally getting something done regarding it. I hope Phoenix has a good future and can attract enough people to turn into a good hockey market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck_trevor16 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 I feel bad for all the citizens that have to lose out on much more important things just to keep them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 That's ok. It gives Seattle 3-5 years to get the arena figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2xtreme Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 If they feel it will work there good for them. It's not your money why are you trash talking them? Maybe it will work, maybe it won't but good for them for finally getting something done regarding it. I hope Phoenix has a good future and can attract enough people to turn into a good hockey market. Actually, some of it is our money. We pay ridiculous prices for tickets. Such is the price of being a fan in a real hockey market. But the Coyotes projections all include getting a chunk of that revenue sharing pie. Where does that money come from? The stronger franchises, like us, who fork money over to those failing markets year after year to try and keep them afloat. Those higher prices we pay, in part, go to subsidize the Coyotes. Having teams in real hockey markets benefit everyone. Is Seattle a great market? I don't know, but it can't be any worse than Phoenix. I believe they would be a great place for a team. Quebec City is a slam dunk money maker. When teams offer season ticket packages that include free parking and a jersey, for a total cost of less than a jersey at the Team Store at Rogers Arena... well, it gets to be insulting that they fight tooth and nail to keep those teams there. Especially when we see games on TV and the arena is less than half full. Apparently 17 years of bleeding money wasn't a big enough warning sign to the league and to the city. If Phoenix/Glendale/Arizona was a half decent hockey market, I wouldn't care if the team was there. But they've had 17 years to show up and haven't. What happened to the whole "Well, the arena is in a terrible location!" excuse?? Did the rink move with the new owners? Please... Fact is, the Phoenix Coyotes have NEVER made a profit in any one year since moving to the desert from Winnipeg. Couldn't find the numbers from way back, but starting in 2004: 2004 - $75 million 2005 - $50 million 2006 - $75 million 2007 - $117 million <-- that is NOT a typo 2008 - $72 million 2009 - $18.5 million 2010 - $20.1 million 2011 - $24 million 2012 - 20.6 million Couldn't find the numbers for the 2013 season. Will they do better financially now? Sure, maybe. But THAT much better? Think they won't bleed another $50 million over a 5 year window? It's more a question of how long will it take them to bleed that $50 million? I'll be generous and say 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BI3KSA- Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I don't understand why anyone that is smart enough to have enough money to buy an NHL club would by a team that has lost money for however many years straight. I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Actually, some of it is our money. We pay ridiculous prices for tickets. Such is the price of being a fan in a real hockey market. But the Coyotes projections all include getting a chunk of that revenue sharing pie. Where does that money come from? The stronger franchises, like us, who fork money over to those failing markets year after year to try and keep them afloat. Those higher prices we pay, in part, go to subsidize the Coyotes. Having teams in real hockey markets benefit everyone. Is Seattle a great market? I don't know, but it can't be any worse than Phoenix. I believe they would be a great place for a team. Quebec City is a slam dunk money maker. When teams offer season ticket packages that include free parking and a jersey, for a total cost of less than a jersey at the Team Store at Rogers Arena... well, it gets to be insulting that they fight tooth and nail to keep those teams there. Especially when we see games on TV and the arena is less than half full. Apparently 17 years of bleeding money wasn't a big enough warning sign to the league and to the city. If Phoenix/Glendale/Arizona was a half decent hockey market, I wouldn't care if the team was there. But they've had 17 years to show up and haven't. What happened to the whole "Well, the arena is in a terrible location!" excuse?? Did the rink move with the new owners? Please... Fact is, the Phoenix Coyotes have NEVER made a profit in any one year since moving to the desert from Winnipeg. Couldn't find the numbers from way back, but starting in 2004: 2004 - $75 million 2005 - $50 million 2006 - $75 million 2007 - $117 million <-- that is NOT a typo 2008 - $72 million 2009 - $18.5 million 2010 - $20.1 million 2011 - $24 million 2012 - 20.6 million Couldn't find the numbers for the 2013 season. Will they do better financially now? Sure, maybe. But THAT much better? Think they won't bleed another $50 million over a 5 year window? It's more a question of how long will it take them to bleed that $50 million? I'll be generous and say 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surtur Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 unless a miracle happens in glendale this team was purchased to be moved. the team will make the owners loads of cash but not in arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Half of the team's revenue comes from when Vancouver fans go to watch them play the Canucks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bob Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 I don't understand why anyone that is smart enough to have enough money to buy an NHL club would by a team that has lost money for however many years straight. I don't get it. Because the owner won't lose a penny. The city of Glendale is responsible for all losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Yawn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 It's sad, the team should never stuck around. The citizens of Phoenix are going to pay for the mistakes of Bettman and company, which shouldn't need to happen. It's only a matter of time before that team is out of Phoenix, it's just a shame it had to be put there in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sikes Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Actually, some of it is our money. We pay ridiculous prices for tickets. Such is the price of being a fan in a real hockey market. But the Coyotes projections all include getting a chunk of that revenue sharing pie. Where does that money come from? The stronger franchises, like us, who fork money over to those failing markets year after year to try and keep them afloat. Those higher prices we pay, in part, go to subsidize the Coyotes. Having teams in real hockey markets benefit everyone. Is Seattle a great market? I don't know, but it can't be any worse than Phoenix. I believe they would be a great place for a team. Quebec City is a slam dunk money maker. When teams offer season ticket packages that include free parking and a jersey, for a total cost of less than a jersey at the Team Store at Rogers Arena... well, it gets to be insulting that they fight tooth and nail to keep those teams there. Especially when we see games on TV and the arena is less than half full. Apparently 17 years of bleeding money wasn't a big enough warning sign to the league and to the city. If Phoenix/Glendale/Arizona was a half decent hockey market, I wouldn't care if the team was there. But they've had 17 years to show up and haven't. What happened to the whole "Well, the arena is in a terrible location!" excuse?? Did the rink move with the new owners? Please... Fact is, the Phoenix Coyotes have NEVER made a profit in any one year since moving to the desert from Winnipeg. Couldn't find the numbers from way back, but starting in 2004: 2004 - $75 million 2005 - $50 million 2006 - $75 million 2007 - $117 million <-- that is NOT a typo 2008 - $72 million 2009 - $18.5 million 2010 - $20.1 million 2011 - $24 million 2012 - 20.6 million Couldn't find the numbers for the 2013 season. Will they do better financially now? Sure, maybe. But THAT much better? Think they won't bleed another $50 million over a 5 year window? It's more a question of how long will it take them to bleed that $50 million? I'll be generous and say 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2xtreme Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 According to NHL rules Phoenix shouldn't get any revenue sharing Basic Revenue Sharing Rules 1. Clubs start with 54% of their own revenues (presumably HRR) for payroll calculation and revenue sharing purposes. 2. Clubs in markets with more than 2.5 million TV households are ineligible for revenue sharing. 3. By the third year of the deal, clubs have to grow revenues faster than the league average and have attendance of 75% of capacity to be eligible for their full revenue-sharing allotment. 4. By the fourth year, the required attendance capacity increases to 80%. That number then holds at 80%. NHL Rules sure seem fluid in these kinds of situations don't they... kind of like playoff officiating. "Enforce it when it suits you, look away when it suits you" kind of policy. I'd agree with you that they shouldn't qualify based on those outlines. Good thing for Phoenix fans that the league is willing to break those rules to save them. http://www.theglobea...rticle13130564/ Phoenix Coyotes fans can thank the NHL lockout for keeping their team in the suburban City of Glendale for another five years. Calgary financier George Gosbee, the key to the money behind the new Coyotes owners, said Wednesday he was pitched many times on becoming part of a bid for the NHL’s worst financial disaster. But he never seriously considered it until the players and owners agreed to divide the league’s hockey-related revenue 50/50, down from 57 per cent for the players in the previous collective agreement, which was the biggest issue in the lockout which ended in January. Gosbee, 43, is a friend of Daryl Jones, who was one of the partners, along with Anthony LeBlanc, in what was known as Ice Edge Holdings, which made one of the failed bids for the Coyotes. When LeBlanc jumped in after Greg Jamison’s ownership bid failed in January, he and Jones courted Gosbee again “but it didn’t attract me until the collective agreement.” “That’s when the business model made sense,” Gosbee said over the phone from Calgary, where he and his fellow investors were enjoying the Stampede. “There is more of a fair revenue-sharing agreement. Phoenix doesn’t need 14,000 people in the seats. It’s more of an NFL model. “And we’re looking at a new local TV contract, a new food-and-beverage contract and the local economy is recovering. Things started to add up and it became a pretty good investment.” Gosbee plans to be an active owner. He will serve as the club’s chairman, LeBlanc will run the business side, with Don Maloney remaining as the general manager on the hockey side. But he won’t be able to get to Glendale for a bit, Gosbee said, as he is still dealing with the complete loss of his Calgary home in the recent flood. Gosbee and his partners scored another revenue boost when NHL commissioner Gary Bettman decreed the Coyotes would always receive a full share of the league’s revenue-sharing plan, which is as much as $20-million (all currency U.S.) a year. Every other NHL club has to meet revenue and ticket-sales targets or its share is docked. Add the $15-million a year to manage Jobing.com Arena in a 15-year lease coughed up by Glendale, and Gosbee could see the possibility of at least breaking even. Breaking even on a club that routinely lost more than $30-million a year. Gosbee managed to convince a group of his Canadian and American friends in the oil and financial fields to sign up as well. Among the 10 primary investors who make up Renaissance Sports and Entertainment, the company that spawned IceArizona, which made the $170-million purchase from the NHL, are people who have done many deals with Gosbee over the years. The other partners are: Scott Saxberg, president of Crescent Point Energy Corp.; Craig Stewart, chairman of RMP Energy Inc.; Dave Duckett, president of Plains Midstream Canada; Peter Kagan, managing director of New York-based Warburg Pincus LLC; Bob Gwin, an executive with Anadarko Petroleum Corp. in Houston; George Fink, chairman of Bonterra Energy Corp.; and Bill Dutton, a retired Calgary oil man who is a descendant of the legendary Norman (Red) Dutton, a player, coach and owner in the NHL who served as its president in the 1940s. However, despite the blue-chip list of investors, the group has just $45-million in equity in the Coyotes. It does have about $245-million raised, but most of it is borrowed, with the NHL lending $80-million and $120-million coming from Fortress Investment Group LLC. While an NHL source said Gosbee is responsible for $35-million of the $45-million, with the other nine partners in for much smaller amounts, he said it is divided evenly among the group – although it does have two tiers of investors. He also said there is still considerable risk for the partners. “I think people still confuse equity with not having risk,” Gosbee said. “We have significant risk with the fact we were able to leverage and borrow some cash. What also makes this unique is we will have $70[-million] to $80-million in cash on Day 1 to turn around the operation.” This does not mean the Coyotes will spend to the salary cap, although Maloney will have a little more money. Gosbee pointed to the four-year, $22-million free-agent contract handed to centre Mike Ribeiro as an example. But this still adds up as a five-year, make-or-break deal for the Coyotes to survive in the desert. Gosbee and his partners have an escape clause from their lease after five years or a cumulative $50-million in losses. At the same time, they do not have to pay the principal on the NHL loan until five years has passed. That just happens to be the time period when arenas in Seattle, Quebec City and perhaps Las Vegas will be ready. But Gosbee points out he and several of his partners already have homes in Arizona and did not get into this to move the team. “We’re not focusing on that,” he said. “The five-year window is just so that if it is not working, we need to look at our options. As owners, we want to remain.” But it is an enormous risk because much of the plan depends on Phoenix-area hockey fans coughing up more money in the form of parking and ticket surcharges. That is a challenge for a team that consistently ranks at the bottom in revenue and attendance among the NHL’s 30 teams. “Based on the stability of ownership, we will attract more fans, more season-ticket holders and more sponsors,” Gosbee said. “We know there is more revenue to make up for the losses going forward.” As a hockey fan in an actually viable market paying high prices to support my team, those bolded parts make me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombastik der Teutone Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 embaressing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avelanch Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 so, that 50 million in losses over 5 year, is that before or after the revenue sharing and glendale payment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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