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The September Camp Thread,list of invitees, cuts etc updated daily

Primal Optimist

By Primal Optimist
in Canucks Talk

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mancaesar Abbotsford Prospect

mancaesar

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it looks to me like each of the big four prospects (shinkaruk, jensen, gaunce, horvat) are all put into positions where they can display the lesser touted sides of their game, save for jensen maybe. its like they want to see if shinkaruk can play with intensity in both ends like kes and burr, if gaunce can show some offensive flare with some good finishers on his side, and if horvat can anchor a gritty line without a lot of finish. i like where they have those 4 in the line up for this one.

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VegasCanuck Canucks Star

VegasCanuck

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Okay, so Gaunce isn't the fastest skater on I've ever seen in the NHL, but he's far from the slowest I've seen.

If he knows his role positionally and how to pace himself, not get caught out of position etc, can't say that I think he's as far away from making it as some have made it seem.

With his size, would be interesting to see how he would do on the powerplay just parking himself in front of the net.

Now, I'm not saying that he's going to make the team this year, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Never know what injuries will pop up during camp either, there's always a few!

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Henrik Kesler Canucks Third-Line

Henrik Kesler

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Okay, so Gaunce isn't the fastest skater on I've ever seen in the NHL, but he's far from the slowest I've seen.

If he knows his role positionally and how to pace himself, not get caught out of position etc, can't say that I think he's as far away from making it as some have made it seem.

With his size, would be interesting to see how he would do on the powerplay just parking himself in front of the net.

Now, I'm not saying that he's going to make the team this year, but I wouldn't rule it out.

Never know what injuries will pop up during camp either, there's always a few!

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BedBeats™2.0 Canucks Rookie

BedBeats™2.0

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This is fantastic. Thanks so much for all the effort you guys put into updating this thread. Living in Taiwan makes it hard for me to keep track of what's going on. I haven't seen any live action this preseason yet, so any opinions I have are based on highlights and extensive reading. So far, the majority of my information seems to be leading to a few key conclusions.

A) Gaunce needs more seasoning at lower levels to work on skating and physicality. Thankfully those are things that can be taught. He already has demonstrated the ability to dominate at lower levels, as well as good leadership. Plus you can't teach NHL size. He's a teenager at his first NHL camp, so I'm not ready to throw him under the bus just yet. However the conclusion that I've drawn from the majority of the information available to me is that he is not an NHL player yet.

B ) Shroeder is more experienced, stronger, healthier and more confident than ever. The article about his shoulder was very enlightening. The rehabbing he pushed through shows the guy has the right kind of heart and grit. I loved the speed line last year, and see Higgins as an upgrade over Raymond. I don't see why Higgins, Hansen and Shroeder couldn't produce great results. That said, it also seems reasonable to try him as a winger on the 2nd line with Kesler. Has this actually been happening at camp so far or is it just prognostications from the masses on CDC?

C) Kassian seems to be fitter and in a better mental space than last year. Good news for all. He seems to be following the stereotypical power forward slow development track. Don't know why anyone is surprised. Isn't this how things are supposed to go? Even if he sucks this year and then puts it all together next year, that'll still be ahead of the curve compared to many other power forwards. He seems like a wildcard that could go from golden boy to coach's doghouse and back overnight. It's hard to get a read on him yet but things seem to be headed in the right direction, from everything I read.

D) Lain. There's a lot of contradiction going on about this guy. Scouting reports have him great at faceoffs and a good skater. Not merely a good skater for his size, but a legitimate skating ability. Yet fans seem split on this, with several people reporting that he looks slow, while just as many are saying they're impressed with his skating. Which is it? It seems his faceoffs haven't been that glowing so far. Time will tell, but he's a guy I have high hopes for (and by "high hopes", I mean I hope he can stick on the 4th line and play a responsible, physically dominant game).

E) It seems pretty universally accepted that Sestito...who needs him?

F) Alberts has really elevated his game by all reports. Yet most fans don't have him in their lineups at all, or at best, relegated to the press box. Is it just a case of people stuck on preconceived notions? Or are guys like Weber and Corrado really outperforming him? Don't we need a huge, physical defenseman that doesn't make mistakes and hits like a moose on PCP? The fact that he isn't being noticed by most is actually encouraging to me. Historically when I've noticed him, it's usually been for all the wrong reasons.

G) Goaltending will be an issue this year, like it or not. I'm not so worried about Luongo ever since he learned how to act like a pro, but I'd be lying if I said my spidey-sense wasn't tingling a bit. Stuff gets stuck in people's heads and it's hard to ignore when you feel you've been wronged. I get it that he'll be pushing for an Olympic starting job, and that's great and all, but what about after the Olympics? Will there be a letdown? What if he doesn't get picked as the starter? All those hits to the ego add up. But isn't the most obvious concern that he's using the Olympics as his motivation instead of winning a Stanley Cup for his team? Yes, he's saying all the right things to avoid controversy, but that doesn't at all mean any of it is genuine. He's being a little too cool for my taste.

As for the backup job, people seem to be generally favourable about Lack's preseason performance so far, aside from possible lateral movement issues which may or may not be related to his hip surgery. Hip injuries have a way of nagging, and I'm worried about Lack's durability. It seems like both he and Eriksson are letting in too many softies. Preseason rust? I sure hope so.

H) Coaching. Wow, the Tortorella bandwagon sure filled up in a hurry. I have to admit, I'm probably over-optimistic myself and trying to temper that with real-life reasoning. Is he Mike Keenan 2.0? There are some unhappy comparisons. But like with Alberts, I believe in the possibility of constant growth and improvement. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, but with both eyes open. I don't know enough about Gulutzan, Williams and Sullivan's coaching styles and abilities to have an opinion. I guess we'll see how the defense and special teams perform to get a good read on them.

I) And finally, Shinkorvat. No. Not yet. I don't care how decent their prospect camp was or how they showed some chemistry with Hansen in scrimmages. The odds of ruining a teenager by rushing him to the NHL are astronomically high. When you play against the odds too long, you will, by definition, lose. What possible logical reason does anyone have right now for justifying more than the 9 game peek-a-boo for these two? It's like when you buy a lottery ticket you actually believe you have a chance and feel excitement when the numbers are being drawn. And then after you inevitably don't win, you start to realize that you threw away your money for nothing. Right now, these guys are shiny new toys. Let's not break them right away.

Yikes, this is getting epic. I bet nobody will read it all, but it's therapeutic for me to gather my thoughts in one place nonetheless. Here's to a great season!

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Primal Optimist Canucks Franchise Player

Primal Optimist

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The fourth line is to me, completely up in the air, and so on opening night, i think it would be kind of suiting to start the game with the fourth line on the ice. The true competition in camp is not to unseat Kes or the twins..or even Hansen and Higgins, it is to make the fourth line. It would be a neat homage to this competition to see those guys start, IMO.

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mancaesar Abbotsford Prospect

mancaesar

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@ /user/2243-bedbeats20/">BedBeats™2.0

Man, I wish I was there in Vancouver to keep up with the team better. When you mention hockey here in Taiwan, people assume you mean field hockey. You have to clarify "ice hockey". What a nightmare.

I'm pretty much on the same page with you. I'm liking Tortorella more and I definitely see bright futures in the likes of Horvat, Shinkaruk and Gaunce, though I do firmly believe it's way too risky to keep any of them in the NHL for any length of time this season.

I'm also very pleased and relieved that Luongo is in camp and doing his job. Like I said, he's learned how to act like a pro. I have no doubt he'll establish himself as the number one guy, with Lack as his backup. The goaltending issues I am a bit concerned about are not anything between Lu and Lack, but rather about the potential for feelings smoldering under the surface to be exposed. You have a situation where a very proud man took some massive hits to his ego and then didn't even get the trade he wanted. He's back, but clearly not because he's forgiven or forgotten. Then you add to the mix a coach who has a history of alienating his stars and mishandling goaltenders. I'm not expecting anything as dramatic as a Patrick Roy type incident, but all the ingredients for a toxic stew are present and waiting for something to stir the pot. It's risky is all I'm saying. The fact that you and I both know this could easily be his last season in Vancouver shows that there are still unresolved issues. Lu is definitely handling himself with class, but I'd bet that at least part of that is disingenuous. It's a lot easier for frustrations to creep in when your foundation isn't built on a happy solid.

I saw the highlights from the SJ game and loved to see Gaunce and Shinkaruk score nice goals. How did those 2 look during the rest of the game? Does anyone have a proper analysis that goes beyond "OMG Bo Horvat is like SOOOOO dreamy and he's totally going 2 play like a billion games this year and score a billion goals and stuff..." Something without blinders would be nice.

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In the Slot Canucks Prospect

In the Slot

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@ /user/2243-bedbeats20/">BedBeats™2.0

Man, I wish I was there in Vancouver to keep up with the team better. When you mention hockey here in Taiwan, people assume you mean field hockey. You have to clarify "ice hockey". What a nightmare.

I'm pretty much on the same page with you. I'm liking Tortorella more and I definitely see bright futures in the likes of Horvat, Shinkaruk and Gaunce, though I do firmly believe it's way too risky to keep any of them in the NHL for any length of time this season.

I'm also very pleased and relieved that Luongo is in camp and doing his job. Like I said, he's learned how to act like a pro. I have no doubt he'll establish himself as the number one guy, with Lack as his backup. The goaltending issues I am a bit concerned about are not anything between Lu and Lack, but rather about the potential for feelings smoldering under the surface to be exposed. You have a situation where a very proud man took some massive hits to his ego and then didn't even get the trade he wanted. He's back, but clearly not because he's forgiven or forgotten. Then you add to the mix a coach who has a history of alienating his stars and mishandling goaltenders. I'm not expecting anything as dramatic as a Patrick Roy type incident, but all the ingredients for a toxic stew are present and waiting for something to stir the pot. It's risky is all I'm saying. The fact that you and I both know this could easily be his last season in Vancouver shows that there are still unresolved issues. Lu is definitely handling himself with class, but I'd bet that at least part of that is disingenuous. It's a lot easier for frustrations to creep in when your foundation isn't built on a happy solid.

I saw the highlights from the SJ game and loved to see Gaunce and Shinkaruk score nice goals. How did those 2 look during the rest of the game? Does anyone have a proper analysis that goes beyond "OMG Bo Horvat is like SOOOOO dreamy and he's totally going 2 play like a billion games this year and score a billion goals and stuff..." Something without blinders would be nice.

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Phamda Abbotsford Star

Phamda

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I usually get pissed about quoting a long response.

BUT...you were quite sound in filtering the noise.

It is no mistake that management stockpiled centers that can also play wing.

Adept face-off prowess is the absolute attribute to a certain style of team play. The scrimmage i saw never put the center rookies against the vet centers.

I am of the absolute opinion that Horvat, Lain, Gaunce will be our future pivots.

I hope the vets push them to get their gnarly on. The aforementioned may need some seasoning, and some Malhotra/Wellwood/MacTavish face off skill training, but they are NHL'ers. Centers do not have to be blades of steel fast. They need to be the safety valve for scoring wingers 5 on 5. If you are a pivot that has an acumen for a complete game, then start a morgatge on a house, as you will always have an NHL job.

For most of your points:

There is no goaltending issue. Lack will be Lu's backup. Done. Dead non-issue. The Canucks have an excellent #1 in Lu. Fans should be beyond stoked. Lack as #1 with Eriksson backing up, EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. Moreso, Schnieds with Lack as back-up would just make me barf. Enjoy the greatest goalie the Canucks have ever had. Because there is a 50/50 chance we will not have that next season.

I will not pretend whatsoever to isolate J-Schro's early FO #'s. He is simply too small to pivot. But i do think with the correct linemates, he will be a great playmaker if he is used as a winger.

While we only saw a scrimmage, i am sooooooooooooooooo stoked for Kass.

Kesler, Kass, Booth, and Richardson will be the de-facto gamebreakers for the Canucks. They are players that have had diminshed roles due to injury, youth, and depth in regards to their respective past seasons.

Alberts deserves a spot. Period. The way the d-corps may shape, he has to be a strong consideration. He is "stiff". He has "bite".

I am slowly warming up to Torts. My problem with him is his treatment of star players. What happened in TB was an embarresment(sic). I think he has evolved, and i do also feel he absolutely mishandled Brad Richards scratch, and the schism with Gabby in a crap way.

Slats gave him complete autonomy with the players, which was a total mistake.

It is abundantly clear that Gillis and ownership have a leash on him.

Torts is here for solid reasons: to keep the offense of the core group humming, and to tighten the team-d, and of course the media's point of his treatment of youth.

He is certainly not Iron Mike 2.0. And hey, from the onset of his hiring, i thought that was the case.

To his credit...he is absolutely not about some manufactured myth about every goddamned player blocking shots. He is about total team-d. He showed that in TB, and with certain rosters he was given in NY.

AVs teams (when he first arrived when the Twins were really still kids and rebuilding after the Burkie/Crow/WCE era) were about team-d as a whole because he barely had any duos in the top 6 who could manufacture points. When management changed and he was given a superior complement of players, the team excelled. It was gravy that he had solid goaltending and a solid rotation of top-4 D.

I am stoked at what Torts can coax out of his roster, but i do wonder if his dickhead nature of the past lingers in his coaching mind.

In regards with the kids, it really is that simple. Bring it. Earn a spot. If sussed out as too green, then you will learn the game with Utica.

Not brain surgery. As much as ive likes Horvat, he is in tough to stick. Same with Shinner. But they will in the near future.

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