GMMG wants to wait and see this team

[kazin!]

Top half needs improvement, which in turn will improve the bottom half.

We unfortunately have 4 top 6 forwards and a dirth of bottom 6. Adding even one more top 6 guy would be huge, not easy, but huge.

In my opinion GMs who manage to add a impact player earn leeway when they are in Gillis' current position. I also believe Gillis hasn't done much to earn the patience that is currently extended his direction from ownership.

Gillis may just be waiting long enough to tell us that a move makes little sense at this point in the season, closer to deadline.

It's unfortunate, but I believe nothing out of his mouth or his assistants mouth. From younger & faster, to all in, I've seen talk, not action.

dearth (dûrth)

n.

1.

A scarce supply; a lack:

"the dearth of uncensored, firsthand information about the war"

(Richard Zoglin).

[hockeyfan90]

This guy can keep waiting because this team won't go anywhere in the playoffs without major changes in the core. The 2011 run did more damage than people realize and it truly shows. This core just isn't motivated enough to win after being oh so close in 2011 and we can see that.

[amitriptyline]

I'm sick of hearing excuses from Gillis like "its hard to make deals in the NHL today". Other GM's are getting it done, there's plenty of opportunity out there. I think Gillis' lack of trading/signing is more a reflection of his own incompetence and inability to negotiate deals, rather than the general state of today's NHL.

For example, in the other thread about how the Canucks tried to deal Edler to the Red Wings, he asked for 4 pieces. WTF?? Be reasonable. He probably misses out on many opportunities because he demands or expects way too much. Trading is not that complicated. You have to give to get. You trade your most expendable asset for what you need most, of equal value. If you cannot be reasonable you will get nothing done, and no one will want to do business with you.

[BI3KSA-]

When was the last time he won a trade?

We probably won the Booth trade, I'm pretty sure Booth has more points in the last two games than Sammuelsson has had the entire time he's been back in Detroit. The Schneider trade we may have won, won't know for sure for 5 years or so. The Dalpe and Welsh trade we won. We won the 4th rounder for Ehrhoff trade. Won the Higgins trade. Anyways, to answer your question, the last time we won a trade was September 29th 2013.

[Angry Goose]

I'm sick of hearing excuses from Gillis like "its hard to make deals in the NHL today". Other GM's are getting it done, there's plenty of opportunity out there. I think Gillis' lack of trading/signing is more a reflection of his own incompetence and inability to negotiate deals, rather than the general state of today's NHL.

I don't know where to begin with nonsense like this. You only have a vague idea, at best, what it is like to manage a professional hockey team, let alone negotiate with other NHL GM's. And other GM's are getting it done like who? Holmgren? Tallon? Shush kid.

For example, in the other thread about how the Canucks tried to deal Edler to the Red Wings, he asked for 4 pieces. WTF?? Be reasonable. He probably misses out on many opportunities because he demands or expects way too much. Trading is not that complicated. You have to give to get. You trade your most expendable asset for what you need most, of equal value. If you cannot be reasonable you will get nothing done, and no one will want to do business with you.

How accurate Botchford's report was is questionable. Maybe MG wanted 4 decent pieces or 3 really good ones who knows other than there was no deal. Who really knows what DET was willing to give up so rather trying to enlighten us on how to run an NHL team, keep your rants short. Thank you.

[The Bookie]

When was the last time he won a trade?

Sep. 29th, unless that 4th turns into something special.

Related, we did win the Booth trade, not because of Booth but because of Cassels.

[nuck nit]

Shush kid.

Denigrating and condescending.

[nuck nit]

How accurate Botchford's report was is questionable. Maybe MG wanted 4 decent pieces or 3 really good ones who knows other than there was no deal. Who really knows what DET was willing to give up so rather trying to enlighten us on how to run an NHL team, keep your rants short. Thank you.

Yeah,and maybe Botchford was accurate with his information.

You certainly don't know and so spare us your God complex.

[Salacious Crumb]

Great analogy but NHL contracts aren't like a marriage where one side can simply move out and it's over.

1 - Players have refused to waive their ntc

2 - Players tend to waive their ntc when they're not happy with their situation

3 - Gillis has said he won't ask players to waive their ntc

You can go ahead and tell Edler you're not happy with him but have you ever heard of a player waiving his ntc immediately after getting it? I haven't. He took less than market value in exchange for it because he actually wants to be here. So the only way Edler gets moved is "if" Gillis does an about face on his publicly declared policy on ntc's and "if" Edler is actually willing to waive the ntc he just got. That's a couple of pretty big "ifs" that are pretty unlikely if you ask me.

Hmmm...a well thought out reponse that doesn't include calling someone a retard. +1 to you Baggins, your points are valid.

My point was that NTCs are not unbreakable. Like a marriage both parties sign a NTC with the best of intentions. Over time circumstances may change for both parties such that they no longer think the same way they did in the past. AV was coach when most of the NTCs were signed and now Torts is coaching. This is just one variable that could affect a player with a NTC contract.

[Nino]

We probably won the Booth trade, I'm pretty sure Booth has more points in the last two games than Sammuelsson has had the entire time he's been back in Detroit. The Schneider trade we may have won, won't know for sure for 5 years or so. The Dalpe and Welsh trade we won. We won the 4th rounder for Ehrhoff trade. Won the Higgins trade. Anyways, to answer your question, the last time we won a trade was September 29th 2013.

We got robbed on the booth trade, the deal was all about getting rid of a underperforming over paid player and we were suckers. That trade is one one the reasons we don't have a second line as booth is taking up way to much cap room.

[Baggins]

Hmmm...a well thought out reponse that doesn't include calling someone a retard. +1 to you Baggins, your points are valid.

My point was that NTCs are not unbreakable. Like a marriage both parties sign a NTC with the best of intentions. Over time circumstances may change for both parties such that they no longer think the same way they did in the past. AV was coach when most of the NTCs were signed and now Torts is coaching. This is just one variable that could affect a player with a NTC contract.

Thank you.

I agree ntc's can and have been waived. It just seems far too many on this board think they can simply be ignored. Still, I've never heard of a player waiving it immediately after taking less to get it his deal. The closest I can recall is Pronger wanting out of Edmonton after one season. But that was a case of his wife hating it there and not wanting to go back. Who could blame her. lol

Who knows, Edler may wind up hating Torts and wanting out. But I'd be surprised if the easy going Swede did. I'd wager Torts isn't the first coach anybody on the team has had that yells.

[NexusRift]

To be a lower seeded team at playoffs is just fine for me. The 'Nucks will play their guts out 'cuz they'll be considered underdogs and they have nothing to lose.

The core vets are going nowhere. That is to say, they are being relied upon to get a Cup championship for our 'Nucks. Gillis believes in this core and continues to get guys around them to compliment and augment our chances of doing so.

I believe.

Go Canucks Go !!!!!

[70seven]

"Wait and see" is the right approach.

It tells me that they are finally boardering on making some significant deals for the future if the current group cant pull it together. I think that what they dont want to do is make the short term tinkering type of deals, unless they see significant progress. And if youre going to pull off the big sell on a few core peices, you always get better return closer to the deadline when teams feel like they have to match up with their rivals additions. The overpay attitude for short term gain, or that last peice to push the team over the hump is all too tempting. Eg: Kesler would be a VERY sought after peice, given the role he can play for a team, his age, and the fact that hes still got two more years on his contract.

On a side note: Most fans in this market undersell what Edler would fetch us, but what would they give for a player like Kulikov, whos yet to play in an all star game, an olympic game, or a stanley cup game, as Edler has?

What you dont realize is that Kulikov has been every bit as inconsistent as Edler, while showing flashes of greatness only to be followed by boneheaded giveaways. Will he always be this way, or is there a chance that with a change of scenery that he could develop different qualities? When you trade for a player, you look at their skill set and potential. Alex Edler is extremely well thought of around this league, and he's not a player you give away. This fanbase is bipolar with this team and its players.... Theres always a couple whipping boys, and Edler has fallen into that category. Bieksa was there for two years, before fans started to understand his value and that he'll simply always be a high risk high reward type player whom plays with more of an edge than any other player on our roster.

Players will have good seasons and poor seasons, but whats important in making deals is what you have over the long term. And with Edler, its a potential all star defensman that has the rare combination of physicallity and skill. Nicklas Kronwall for example is 5 years older than Edler, yet he's on pace for his best offensive season of his carreer, and doing it without HOF d-man Lidstrom by his side. Edler has all the tools to continue to evolve into a better player, its just that short sighted fans will NEVER understand that reality.

[oldnews]

I'm sick of hearing excuses from Gillis like "its hard to make deals in the NHL today". Other GM's are getting it done, there's plenty of opportunity out there. I think Gillis' lack of trading/signing is more a reflection of his own incompetence and inability to negotiate deals, rather than the general state of today's NHL.

For example, in the other thread about how the Canucks tried to deal Edler to the Red Wings, he asked for 4 pieces. WTF?? Be reasonable. He probably misses out on many opportunities because he demands or expects way too much. Trading is not that complicated. You have to give to get. You trade your most expendable asset for what you need most, of equal value. If you cannot be reasonable you will get nothing done, and no one will want to do business with you.

First of all - who exactly is gettting it done. You mention the trades forum, so apparently you've had a look, but what you evidently didn't notice is that virtually no deals are getting done.

Rumours of players being shopped:

Ruutu

Tlustu

Erat

Orlov

McGinn

Pacioretty

Kane

Backlund

Matthias (and half of Florida's roster)

Del Zotto

How many deals? When was the last one?

A lot more players hitting the waiver wire than being moved.

And that rumour about Edler is from an invalid source - Botchford - the local Ecklund.

[oldnews]

For the impatient ones who've never heard of the CBA: the offseason involved a cap drop under the new CBA - teams operating with 6 million less cap space to work with. Many teams restructured, cap-dropped players, didn't re-sign others - a lot of teams left up against the cap without much to work with. The market to deal players has shrunk significantly. Wandering into that market as a seller is just a bad idea - and Gillis is not a stupid man. Aside from actually having a good team, with a new coach, and having every reason not to panic like a CDC noob, if the team had in fact decided that they wanted to make changes involving a significant core player and contract or two, they'd be far more prudent to wait until the offseason when the cap raises and every team in the NHL will suddenly find themselves with a chunk of cap space to work with (that is, except the Leafs lol, who have already made their bed and crapt in it )

[oldnews]

Sep. 29th, unless that 4th turns into something special.

Related, we did win the Booth trade, not because of Booth but because of Cassels.

Yes, I think they won the last one ironically - Welsh and Dalpe have already proven to have utility whereas Tochkin is 22 but isn't on the Canes AHL team, he's been sent to the ECHL.

I also agree that they won the Booth deal - as injured as Booth has been (38 pts in 85 games over 3 seasons), Samuelsson has played even less (31pts in 68 games). 1 point in 4 games last season, 2 in 16 this year - even if he had re-signed here, he wouldn't have helped much - and as you note, Cassels is tearing it up in the OHL - his production is alongside Gaunce's.

I think they also won the Higgins, Lapierre, and Ehrhoff deals. Gordon was a good deal. Schneider we won't know for years - the same with Kassian, a deal I would not reverse in hindgsight. The rentals can't really be judged until those picks develop - in the case of Roy, the injuries to Schroeder and Kesler pretty much forced Gillis' hand, and Pahlsson played very good hockey here and kept up his end of the deal - the Canucks just weren't healthy and able enough to beat LA.

Really, that leaves a whole lot of whining about the Ballard deal for a guy Florida dumped on waivers, another guy they couldn't dump on waivers because no one would take him - so they let him go in the offseason - and a pick that hasn't scored an NHL point.

Nevertheless, CDC's favorite chorus: 'Gillis isn't good at trades'....

[elvis15]

Some things haven't worked out, but really most deals have been at least ok. It's hard to ask for a lot more than that and to expect blockbusters all the time is not wise. Railing on Gillis for not making a move like other teams have (who do you want, rentals like Iginla and Jagr?) is unfair to a point as well since people would be just as likely to rail on him for giving up picks and prospects.

Thank you.

I agree ntc's can and have been waived. It just seems far too many on this board think they can simply be ignored. Still, I've never heard of a player waiving it immediately after taking less to get it his deal. The closest I can recall is Pronger wanting out of Edmonton after one season. But that was a case of his wife hating it there and not wanting to go back. Who could blame her. lol

Who knows, Edler may wind up hating Torts and wanting out. But I'd be surprised if the easy going Swede did. I'd wager Torts isn't the first coach anybody on the team has had that yells.

If anything it will be a player with an NTC that initiates it. I was thinking last night (particularly around Luongo) that perhaps a team comes with a good offer for someone and then Gillis approaches whoever is involved to gauge their interest. Again, considering Luongo, he's already expressed interest in the past in moving so that would be easy to approach him, but much harder to approach someone like Edler, Kesler, Higgins, etc.

I don't particularly like the marriage analogy, since while it has some points it falls apart when considering the team makes multiple such commitments. It's not so much that the team has committed to one player for life (of the contract at least) but they have multiple players they can use and are committing to, so they still get variety. If this was the case of building around one player and it not working out then I could see it, but it would otherwise have to be such a poor fit as to warrant a divorce.

[CupisAll]

Carter and Richards would have been nice.

[Benchsplinters]

Great analogy but NHL contracts aren't like a marriage where one side can simply move out and it's over.

1 - Players have refused to waive their ntc

2 - Players tend to waive their ntc when they're not happy with their situation

3 - Gillis has said he won't ask players to waive their ntc

You can go ahead and tell Edler you're not happy with him but have you ever heard of a player waiving his ntc immediately after getting it? I haven't. He took less than market value in exchange for it because he actually wants to be here. So the only way Edler gets moved is "if" Gillis does an about face on his publicly declared policy on ntc's and "if" Edler is actually willing to waive the ntc he just got. That's a couple of pretty big "ifs" that are pretty unlikely if you ask me.

Exactly, but unfortunately the only negotiation expertise many of the posters here have is making a deal to buy a pack of cigarettes with a ten dollar bill and I bet they still won't get the change right.

In essence you are talking to yourself as they don't understand the logistics of contracts or trade negotiations. They have great difficulty walking and breathing at the same time so it is easily understood why they make these brainless suggestions under the anonymity of the internet. They can remain less embarrassed about their remarks when no one knows who they are.

[Benchsplinters]

Difference being Gillis gets paid who knows how many millions to manage mediocrity.

Appears you learned a new word