Too Early to call Kassian a dissapointment?

[prana16]

Nope, Kassian is bigger and has more defensive ability.

Haha.. based on what exactly? Certainly not their past 15+ years of hockey play.

[The Lock]

http://www.hockeydb.....php?pid=106835

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Zack_Kassian

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Cody_Hodgson

http://www.hockeydb....y.php?pid=96546

Cody Hodgson is a better hockey player than Zack Kassian by every objective measure. Sorry.

Its the exact same... Henrik Sedin is a better Hockey player than Chris Higgins by every objective measure... funny you don't argue that as being just my opinion.

but ya Zack has dem intangibles that have won us lots of games.

lol None of those links prove what you just said. They're just general links to stats. That doesn't mean Kassian "better than Hodgson by every standard".

Why do those links prove it? What SPECIFIC stats prove it in there? I could easily throw you the same pages and say the exact opposite. It would be to the same effectiveness.

[SamJamIam]

Haha.. based on what exactly? Certainly not their past 15+ years of hockey play.

Are you the one guy on here that doesn't know Cody is consistently one of the worst defensive players in the league? Talk about late to the party

[SofaKing]

I know Kassian only played 5 min. but he did everything pretty well in those 5 min. meaning no mistakes & in proper position. I think as the season goes on & come playoff time Kassian will be a big factor for us.

I still believe

[Bert Diesel]

I made this point in another post but I will make it again here. We would not have been able to sign Hogdson this past Summer. He got over paid by Buffalo and still doesn't project to be much more than a 60 point guy playing big minutes and powerplay time. The trade was made for Cap reasons. Kassian fits under our cap; hasn't had a breakout season yet so won't get huge RFA money. He has too much size,skill,speed to be a complete bust even if he continues to play as he is now. He brings intimidation to the table, an intangible that was sorely lacking in 2011 and which becomes necessary in the war of attrition that is the playoffs. Gillis may have been able to get more for Hogdson but name me other players Kassian's age that bring all the elements he has to the table. There are very few. Guys like Hodgson are easier to find through free agency(Santorelli anyone), the power forwards are coveted and usually take longer to develop.

[SofaKing]

How can I tell Kassian will never score 30 goals? Easy. I watch him play. He's brutal.

No speed, no shot, no offensive creativity. This is not the recipe for a 30 goal scorer. You think he'll ever hit 30? I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you.

I think you may want to get yourself a new set of glasses.

Remember I said he will be a D.Penner type but a way better faster skater & better passing.

I think it's time for you to serve your Game misconduct cause you're way off on Kassian.

[Canuck Surfer]

I made this point in another post but I will make it again here. We would not have been able to sign Hogdson this past Summer. He got over paid by Buffalo and still doesn't project to be much more than a 60 point guy playing big minutes and powerplay time. The trade was made for Cap reasons. Kassian fits under our cap; hasn't had a breakout season yet so won't get huge RFA money. He has too much size,skill,speed to be a complete bust even if he continues to play as he is now. He brings intimidation to the table, an intangible that was sorely lacking in 2011 and which becomes necessary in the war of attrition that is the playoffs. Gillis may have been able to get more for Hogdson but name me other players Kassian's age that bring all the elements he has to the table. There are very few. Guys like Hodgson are easier to find through free agency(Santorelli anyone), the power forwards are coveted and usually take longer to develop.

This is a great post. And I agree with pretty much everything. Except the bolded. And the fact that Kassian was not as advertised when he arrived, so we lost significant potential waiting for him. I am extremely happy he is coming around.

Hey, Santorelli is the better overall player atm than Coho. But there is no substitute for talent. Say what anyone here will on CDC, but few if any outside BC agree that Kassian is a better asset than CoHo, even though he has weaknesses. Then its up to the coach to blend lines that compliment players. Look how well Hodgson played with Eberle at the world juniors? Or with Vanek and Pomminville? Not everyone can keep up and add to the potency of such players.

[Gollumpus]

Haha.. based on what exactly? Certainly not their past 15+ years of hockey play.

Uhm, from where are you getting data for their last 15 years of hockey play? And why would their respective numbers, from when they were around 8 years old, be of use in our assessment of these players?

Looking at their current NHL numbers, Hodgson is a -12 for his career, while Kassian is a -13. It does argue against Kassian being a better defensive player.

Another way of looking at these numbers is, Hodgson has had the misfortune to be on the ice for a goal against about once every 1.6 games. Kassian has been on the ice for a goal against about once every 2.7 games. (Numbers achieved by adding the player's total points to thier +/- total, and then dividing that number into his total games played.) I would also note that Hodgson has gone from a +9 while he was with the Canucks, to a -21 in his time with the Sabres, for a total of -12. Most of Kassian's -13 has come since he joined the Canucks.

I'm sure there are very good reasons as to why Hodgson is not responsible for his totals in this area.

regards,

G.

[chrisbanks]

Uhm, from where are you getting data for their last 15 years of hockey play? And why would their respective numbers, from when they were around 8 years old, be of use in our assessment of these players?

Looking at their current NHL numbers, Hodgson is a -12 for his career, while Kassian is a -13. It does argue against Kassian being a better defensive player.

Another way of looking at these numbers is, Hodgson has had the misfortune to be on the ice for a goal against about once every 1.6 games. Kassian has been on the ice for a goal against about once every 2.7 games. (Numbers achieved by adding the player's total points to thier +/- total, and then dividing that number into his total games played.)

I'm sure there are very good reasons as to why Hodgson is not responsible for his totals in this area.

regards,

G.

coho plays double the minutes on a terrible teams that has far worse tending and defense. you cant compare +/- for 2 players that dont even come close to the same playing time.... but if you want to go back to when coho was playing 3rd line minutes with the canucks he finished with ....16 g17a +8 through 63 games.. when he was 1 year younger than zack is now .... coho also is crushing zack in blocked shots and takeaways and is averaging 1 PK shift a game.... zack 0 time on the PK ..

[Angry Goose]

I made this point in another post but I will make it again here. We would not have been able to sign Hogdson this past Summer. He got over paid by Buffalo and still doesn't project to be much more than a 60 point guy playing big minutes and powerplay time. The trade was made for Cap reasons. Kassian fits under our cap; hasn't had a breakout season yet so won't get huge RFA money. He has too much size,skill,speed to be a complete bust even if he continues to play as he is now. He brings intimidation to the table, an intangible that was sorely lacking in 2011 and which becomes necessary in the war of attrition that is the playoffs. Gillis may have been able to get more for Hogdson but name me other players Kassian's age that bring all the elements he has to the table. There are very few. Guys like Hodgson are easier to find through free agency(Santorelli anyone), the power forwards are coveted and usually take longer to develop.

yes on all points

[Chauncey]

We will win the trade the day Kassaquatch ends Coho's career

YES!!!!!

[L. Stanley]

Considering that Hodgson is playing first-line minutes on a nightly basis, his numbers are a joke.

I was actually expecting a lot more out of him points wise, especially becuase he is not a two way player. He has fewer points than santorelli, higgins, garrison.

I am getting the feeling thay Kassian is turning the corner. His goal aginst chicago was huge, nice shot, gave us life. His drive, hands and vision were certainly on display with the tanev game winner. I hope he keeps building on this, one gets the impression of the force he could be once/if it all comes together

[SofaKing]

I was actually expecting a lot more out of him points wise, especially becuase he is not a two way player. He has fewer points than santorelli, higgins, garrison.

I am getting the feeling thay Kassian is turning the corner. His goal aginst chicago was huge, nice shot, gave us life. His drive, hands and vision were certainly on display with the tanev game winner. I hope he keeps building on this, one gets the impression of the force he could be once/if it all comes together

These type of guys are priceless come playoffs. eg. D.Penner, B.Burns, B.Bickell etc. & that's what Kassian is.

Bickell wasn't much all regular season but come playoffs he was a force. Kassian has more potential than Bickell in my eyes.

These guys are a must on any playoff contender.

[BanTSN]

I wonder of you were using that argument when zack was a healthy scratch or suspended or out with a back injury last year?

Hey, speaking of back injuries, i heard Cody had a rather big one. Didn't he injure himself and then try to blame the team?

Cleary a self-centered primadonna. How the Canucks put up with his antics for that long was beyond me.

Even if Kassian busts from here on out, the Canucks are still better off by cutting that cancer loose. Not that i am judging his character or anything. Good guy by all accounts. But he HAD to go.

[DeNiro]

lol None of those links prove what you just said. They're just general links to stats. That doesn't mean Kassian "better than Hodgson by every standard".

Why do those links prove it? What SPECIFIC stats prove it in there? I could easily throw you the same pages and say the exact opposite. It would be to the same effectiveness.

The guy is obsessed with Cody Hodgson and doesn't know a whole lot about hockey.

Just leave him be, he's special.

[Profanity]

Haha.. based on what exactly? Certainly not their past 15+ years of hockey play.

Didn't know you have been watching them play for 15 years...

Or you are just pulling stuff out from your ass.

Actually, let me guess. You probably looked up their stats from junior, added up the +/-, and came to a conclusion without actually watching them play the game.

[CanucksSayEh]

Too much Cody bashing, and for stupid (mostly made up) reasons. The trades pros and cons were never, and will never be based off who the better player is. Not that we win that one either. This isn't a fantasy league, the trade has had a real life impact every day since it was made. The clock began to run on that day, taking away horsepower from a presidents trophy winning team isn't exactly a good start. We have come to some unfortunate endings ever since, again, that has little to do with Cody himself, but rather the value. We have been bleeding for a while, for that we have lost. In the future, maybe things change, but looking at the core, and our other future pieces....against this division....they got their work cut out for em.

Not Kassians fault, he didn't trade himself, should be judged on his own play. Which is slowly getting better, these good games need to be closer together.

[DeNiro]

Too much Cody bashing, and for stupid (mostly made up) reasons. The trades pros and cons were never, and will never be based off who the better player is. Not that we win that one either. This isn't a fantasy league, the trade has had a real life impact every day since it was made. The clock began to run on that day, taking away horsepower from a presidents trophy winning team isn't exactly a good start. We have come to some unfortunate endings ever since, again, that has little to do with Cody himself, but rather the value. We have been bleeding for a while, for that we have lost. In the future, maybe things change, but looking at the core, and our other future pieces....against this division....they got their work cut out for em.

Not Kassians fault, he didn't trade himself, should be judged on his own play. Which is slowly getting better, these good games need to be closer together.

Richardson is on pace to score about 10 less points than Hodgson while playing third line minutes. Not sure we really lost any horsepower in that respect.

Our biggest loss in horsepower came from losing Ehrhoff and Salo, and now having Edler regress. Without puck moving D-men who can carry the puck out and feed it to the forwards quickly, we're left with no transition game.

Kassian is now on pace for 16 goals this season at 22. He's doing just fine. We've got great prospects coming up that will fill the third and fourth line center holes. This team is in good shape moving forward.

[Baggins]

No it did not. Kassian only played 5 or 8 games last year where he was a physically dominant player. Maybe 2 the year he arrived, when in fact he should have gone straight to the minors to continue to develop. He took up a roster spot which was being better filled by Byron Bitz than the Kassian who arrived on trade day.

Kassian has now easily passed Bitz but is just starting to fill the actual role we want now almost 2 years post trade. And he's still not consistent, in spite of all the tools. I am sold we should have moved Hodgson. But we should have moved him for a veteran. And you may not believe he would have commanded a veteran but I do.

You are welcome to believe Gillis made the move for the future. It contrasts from comments trade day where Gillis thought he was adding elements to the team we needed to compete in the play off's. And common logic; what contender have you ever seen trading hot young players for futures??? It was a dumb move playing money-ball, trying to get a prospect to do a grown man's job; tricked that our boy looked like such a man. Then Gillis back tracked and covered his butt calling it a move for the future. Thats my opinion.

Hey, we can retrieve value as Kassian comes into his own. But we can never win as we lost 2 productive years, maybe 3? Thats not how contenders win trades. We took a step backwards the day he arrived.

That's because the vast majority on this board are completely unrealistic when it's come to trades. The reason I rarely wander into the Armchair GMing section unless of course I'm bored and looking for a good laugh.

Btw, Gillis said he needs development but would also help now. The help now was physical presence not production. Unless of course MG has some hidden magic wand to suddenly transform Kassian from what he was producing in Buffalo. As I said, if Kassian was the same level offensively as Hodgson the trade would have cost considerably more than Hodgson. That shows you are unrealistic about trades right there.

So many here overrate Hodgson and underrate Kassian.

[SofaKing]

Richardson is on pace to score about 10 less points than Hodgson while playing third line minutes. Not sure we really lost any horsepower in that respect.

Our biggest loss in horsepower came from losing Ehrhoff and Salo, and now having Edler regress. Without puck moving D-men who can carry the puck out and feed it to the forwards quickly, we're left with no transition game.

Kassian is now on pace for 16 goals this season at 22. He's doing just fine. We've got great prospects coming up that will fill the third and fourth line center holes. This team is in good shape moving forward.

We have Tanev who is pretty darn good at getting the puck out of our end. (one of the best) Hammer & Garrison don't hurt know team & Stanton is another solid horse. Bieska is Bieska & he's priceless so lets not go there...

Agree on Kass & some of our prospects (Horvat, Gaunce, Archibald, Corrado, Cassels & Hunter) not sold on the others yet.