CanucksSayEh Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Looked good tonight, always love it when someone sets up my boi Tanev! Still, he didn't really do anything spectacular, wasn't faster, didn't hit harder ect. Wasn't a display of any kind of superior hockey IQ than he has in the past. Not saying thats bad, just leads me to question why he doesn't play this way more often.. Whats standing between Kass, and SuperKass? Is it confidence? or was it simply a good game which comes to every player once in a while?.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Higgins laid out Chara; not sure Hank could do better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Looked good tonight, always love it when someone sets up my boi Tanev! Still, he didn't really do anything spectacular, wasn't faster, didn't hit harder ect. Wasn't a display of any kind of superior hockey IQ than he has in the past, leads me to question why he doesn't play this way more often.. Whats standing between Kass, and SuperKass? Is it confidence? or was it simply a good game which comes to every player once in a while?.. Did you really watch the game or are you purposely ignoring his passes tonight and how he outperformed daniel and henrik combined? Watching tonights game was encouraging relative to kass. Imo ill be suprised to see hansen with the sedins again. Calgary would be a good game for kass to add some life there. I slso felt that booths inability to make a pass hindered kassian tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 http://www.hockeydb.....php?pid=106835 http://en.wikipedia....ki/Zack_Kassian http://en.wikipedia....ki/Cody_Hodgson http://www.hockeydb....y.php?pid=96546 Cody Hodgson is a better hockey player than Zack Kassian by every objective measure. Sorry. Its the exact same... Henrik Sedin is a better Hockey player than Chris Higgins by every objective measure... funny you don't argue that as being just my opinion. but ya Zack has dem intangibles that have won us lots of games. Zack vs Hodgson Objective Measures? lets just dissect that and measure these objects Height 6'3 > 6'0 Weight 214 > 185 Age 22yo >23yo Salary 875k>4250K How about intangables? Skating? Kassian Hitting? Kassian Backchecking? Kassian Intimidation? Kassian Fighting? Kasian Team player? Kassian Im not saying that Kassian is better in every way than CoHo, That would be stupid to even suggest. Each has their strengths and one has huge weaknesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sestito Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Kassian's on pace for 18 goals playing third line minutes. Man oh man if he ever gets his mental game up he'll be a damn good player.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead44 Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I am really liking the Booth, Kassian, Richardson line. Booth and Kass looked pretty good with Lapierre but Richardson is a much more skilled, shifty player that fits better between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Kassian's game is now becoming much more consistent and yet another night where he flashed a little "Kass que c'est" on his pass to Tanev. Plus he actually almost scored short-side right before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merci Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Zack "The Rascal" Kassian had me thinking just the other night, geez just get a sweet assist or two and you're on your way. I know this guy is going to be an all star for us, and the patience and perserverence with him becoming a 30 goal scorer will issue hilarity to the rest of Hodgson's career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNinja Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Zack "The Rascal" Kassian had me thinking just the other night, geez just get a sweet assist or two and you're on your way. I know this guy is going to be an all star for us, and the patience and perserverence with him becoming a 30 goal scorer will issue hilarity to the rest of Hodgson's career The Kasscal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 His role is to be a big, intimidating scoring winger, like Lucic or Bertuzzi, not Tom Sestito. Bertuzzi's first season over 50 points came the season he turned 25. Lucic's first season over 50 points came when he was 22. If Kassian was Lucic we wouldn't have gotten him for just Hodgson. I've posed this situational question several times and nobody has ever answered it..... I have a 50+ point center who is an average skater, average size, doesn't play physical or throw big hits and doesn't drop the gloves. You have a 50+ point power forward who has good speed, is big, plays physical and throws big hits, and is willing to drop the gloves with anybody. Would you trade me straight across? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I am really liking the Booth, Kassian, Richardson line. Booth and Kass looked pretty good with Lapierre but Richardson is a much more skilled, shifty player that fits better between them. They killed it possession-wise last night and were our best line both in terms of Corsi and just by looking. Yet all of them are negative Corsi on the year to date. So something is happening with this line to turn around how these guys have been playing individually. Keep them together. And for all the haters: Kassian has been helping us win games recently so if you don't like it, go follow another team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Baggins; Kassian is potentially more important to Van than CoHo was because they need his physical game. Henrik and Kessler bumped CoHo to far down at 3C. Torts seems to realize that Kassian's development is all about how he sees the game. Many have called for him to go down for a stint in Utica. To me there is little to be gained. Kassian needs exposure to NHL vets and to minutes on the ice. You mentioned his hitting. It seems to me that his emphasis has been positioning rather than great physicality. Combine his hands with a hitting game and I will revise my opinion of Van's playoff potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderTwinPowers Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Coho didn't help start winning us games until his 2nd season first full 82 game season, and did so with sheltered minutes and 2nd PP duty. Kass is now doin the same in his first full 82 season, without really any PP time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Baggins; Kassian is potentially more important to Van than CoHo was because they need his physical game. Henrik and Kessler bumped CoHo to far down at 3C. Torts seems to realize that Kassian's development is all about how he sees the game. Many have called for him to go down for a stint in Utica. To me there is little to be gained. Kassian needs exposure to NHL vets and to minutes on the ice. You mentioned his hitting. It seems to me that his emphasis has been positioning rather than great physicality. Combine his hands with a hitting game and I will revise my opinion of Van's playoff potential. Agreed that this is a big part of what the team needs from Kassian. But I wouldn't oppose this to playing a strong positional game and seeing the game the right way. Hitting, like scoring, needs to come out of a certain degree of structure in how you play. If you go too far out of your way to take something that isn't there, it just hurts the team. Kassian, like all players, needs to learn this in terms of the system, his linemates, his oponents, and his own ability, which is still emerging. It's coming, and will come faster if he stays with Booth and Richardson. Besides hitting, we should want him making power moves to the net. Playing with Booth will teach him that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Baggins; Kassian is potentially more important to Van than CoHo was because they need his physical game. Henrik and Kessler bumped CoHo to far down at 3C. Torts seems to realize that Kassian's development is all about how he sees the game. Many have called for him to go down for a stint in Utica. To me there is little to be gained. Kassian needs exposure to NHL vets and to minutes on the ice. You mentioned his hitting. It seems to me that his emphasis has been positioning rather than great physicality. Combine his hands with a hitting game and I will revise my opinion of Van's playoff potential. Your first paragraph isn't anything I don't already know. His hitting has gone along the line of Bieksa's early years. Bieksa started off taking a run at everything he could. His game improved when he stopped chasing hits. This is what Kassian has started to learn. Chasing hits can take you out of the play more so than the guy you're going after. That doesn't mean he stopped playing physical or is avoiding the big hits that are there. He's simply playing smarter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I've posed this situational question several times and nobody has ever answered it..... I have a 50+ point center who is an average skater, average size, doesn't play physical or throw big hits and doesn't drop the gloves. You have a 50+ point power forward who has good speed, is big, plays physical and throws big hits, and is willing to drop the gloves with anybody. Would you trade me straight across? That's If though. With Hodgson you could already see him being a future 50+ point / season center. With Kassian it's still uncertain. As such right now Buffalo won that trade between Coho and Kass. I wouldn't mind the trade if there was, at least, another additional asset thrown to The Canucks. It's not like the Schneider trade where the whole league knew MG had to trade one of them. MG could have asked for a better package for Hodgson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maniwaki Canuck Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 That's If though. With Hodgson you could already see him being a future 50+ point / season center. With Kassian it's still uncertain. As such right now Buffalo won that trade between Coho and Kass. I wouldn't mind the trade if there was, at least, another additional asset thrown to The Canucks. It's not like the Schneider trade where the whole league knew MG had to trade one of them. MG could have asked for a better package for Hodgson. Last year, this was fair comment when we were really hurting for depth at centre. This year, Santorelli has replaced everything that Hodgson would have given us and then some: Santorelli is simply the better player and comes at a fraction of the cost. Hodgson is not such a big deal and the jury is very much out on him, as it is on Kassian, who is at least showing some overall improvement in his game. While you're right to say that we haven't yet reached Baggin's scenario where the two are on equal point totals, it's trending that way, and Kassian's physicality gives us a chance against teams like Boston, LA and St. Louis that are otherwise going to eat us alive. I think we have already won that trade, and it will only become more evident with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 That's If though. With Hodgson you could already see him being a future 50+ point / season center. With Kassian it's still uncertain. As such right now Buffalo won that trade between Coho and Kass. I wouldn't mind the trade if there was, at least, another additional asset thrown to The Canucks. It's not like the Schneider trade where the whole league knew MG had to trade one of them. MG could have asked for a better package for Hodgson. But you're not going to get a 50+ point player with those attributes for a 50+ point player without them. That's my point. Kassian has a great deal of potential. We gave up some skill for size, a physical edge, and potential. If Kassian had the same skill level as Hodgson at the time of the trade he would have cost far more than just Hodgson. Anybody thinking we were getting the exact same skill back in that trade was or is delusional. Every analyst out there said it would be several years before this trade could really be judged. People seem to forget Bertuzzi never broke the 40 point mark until he was 25 with a 50 point season. Two years later at 27 he broke the 60 point mark with an 85 point season. Hopefully he'll develop a little faster than Bertuzzi did, but thinking he would step in and immediately be a Lucic was pretty unrealistic. Btw, the little bit extra we got in that trade was a d-man who was a pending rfa with limited NHL success for a d-man who was a pending ufa with no real NHL success. That d-man didn't work out for us and he wasn't qualified because Garrison had said he wasn't going to re-sign in Florida. An opportunity that worked out for us far better than re-signing Gragnani. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 But you're not going to get a 50+ point player with those attributes for a 50+ point player without them. That's my point. Kassian has a great deal of potential. We gave up some skill for size, a physical edge, and potential. If Kassian had the same skill level as Hodgson at the time of the trade he would have cost far more than just Hodgson. Anybody thinking we were getting the exact same skill back in that trade was or is delusional. Every analyst out there said it would be several years before this trade could really be judged. People seem to forget Bertuzzi never broke the 40 point mark until he was 25 with a 50 point season. Two years later at 27 he broke the 60 point mark with an 85 point season. Hopefully he'll develop a little faster than Bertuzzi did, but thinking he would step in and immediately be a Lucic was pretty unrealistic. Btw, the little bit extra we got in that trade was a d-man who was a pending rfa with limited NHL success for a d-man who was a pending ufa with no real NHL success. That d-man didn't work out for us and he wasn't qualified because Garrison had said he wasn't going to re-sign in Florida. An opportunity that worked out for us far better than re-signing Gragnani. well said. Merry Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 This season... CoHo and Kass are even in games played @ 33 CoHo has 8 goals and 11 assists playing on the top line with Vanek/Moulson Kass has 7 goals and 2 assists playing mostly 4th line with Sestito/Weise/Booth Time on ice Coho is averaging 18:28, Kass is averaging 11:40 Power play minutes Coho is averaging 3 minutes, Kass is averaging 25 seconds If you truly wanted to judge these players equally the first thing you would do is remove the powerplay time from the equation. Now we have CoHo at 15:28 ice time and Kass at 11:15 So without their powerplay points... CoHo has 4 goals and 7 assists (playing on the top line with Vanek/Moulson) Kass has 7 goals and 2 assists (playing mostly 4th line with Sestito/Weise/Booth) Now to even out the ice times i'll divide CoHo's ES TOI by kass' ES TOI (15.5/11.25=1.38) So Kassians projected increase in production would be... (7g X 1.38 and 2a X 1.38) Kass 10 goals, 3 assists for 13 points vs. Coho 4 goals, 7 assists for 11 points This is still without factoring in the Vanek/Moulson vs Sestito/Weise/Booth linemate factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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