Too Early to call Kassian a dissapointment?

[ice orca]

coho plays double the minutes on a terrible teams that has far worse tending and defense. you cant compare +/- for 2 players that dont even come close to the same playing time.... but if you want to go back to when coho was playing 3rd line minutes with the canucks he finished with ....16 g17a +8 through 63 games.. when he was 1 year younger than zack is now .... coho also is crushing zack in blocked shots and takeaways and is averaging 1 PK shift a game.... zack 0 time on the PK ..

Alright give us an idea how he would do under Torts and the way he wants his team to play? You know hard on the puck, nasty forcheck, uber defensive systems or you ride the pine like a lot of guys here have. Where would Cody fit on this team? Probably 4th line center with managed minutes. Can you imagine a guy like Torts rolling over to his requests for 2nd line minutes from him or his old man or agent.

[Gollumpus]

coho plays double the minutes on a terrible teams that has far worse tending and defense. you cant compare +/- for 2 players that dont even come close to the same playing time.... but if you want to go back to when coho was playing 3rd line minutes with the canucks he finished with ....16 g17a +8 through 63 games.. when he was 1 year younger than zack is now .... coho also is crushing zack in blocked shots and takeaways and is averaging 1 PK shift a game.... zack 0 time on the PK ..

I agree, and people who knock Kassian's point production should be using the same criteria. This usually gets missed.

Another interesting about those 63 games with the Canucks, Hodgson was arguably a "better" player here as a 3C than he was as a 1C in his first 68 games in Buffalo ('11 - 12 & '12 - 13 seasons),

Hodgson was playing fewer, some say "sheltered" minutes here, with two 3rd liners who have some offensive skill and produced the point totals which you have noted above. In those 68 games in Buffalo, playing with perhaps the best offensive minded wingers he will ever see in his career, he generated a mere 18g 24a -11. One would expect those numbers should have been higher.

regards,

G.

[D-Money]

If Kassian didn't have some question marks... if his development into a top-6 player was sure thing... well, he simply would not have been available.

Gillis took the risk, and shipped out a good young player who was rocking the boat. Calculated risk that so far (let's be honest) has not worked out in our favor. However, this season is showing that in the long run, we may end up with the better player.

[Gollumpus]

Too much Cody bashing, and for stupid (mostly made up) reasons.

If you're talking about Hodgson supposedly agitating for a trade, sure, who cares? Any criticism regarding his play, lack in skating or physical play are valid points (IMO). A number of pre-Hodgson types lump any criticism in with the "stupid (mostly made up) reasons".

The trades pros and cons were never, and will never be based off who the better player is. Not that we win that one either.

Hodgson will produce more points. If that is how you want to measure these two players then fine, you have won the day. However, it does not address who would be the more valuable player to this team, which would likely be Kassian.

This isn't a fantasy league, the trade has had a real life impact every day since it was made. The clock began to run on that day, taking away horsepower from a presidents trophy winning team isn't exactly a good start.

Yeah, the Canucks traded away a Shetland pony for a Clydesdale. Not knocking Shetland ponies. Each has their role, and the Canucks needed a larger horse. They are currently training him to pull a plow.

We have come to some unfortunate endings ever since, again, that has little to do with Cody himself, but rather the value. We have been bleeding for a while, for that we have lost. In the future, maybe things change, but looking at the core, and our other future pieces....against this division....they got their work cut out for em.

Not Kassians fault, he didn't trade himself, should be judged on his own play. Which is slowly getting better, these good games need to be closer together.

So what you are suggesting is that the Canucks should have gotten more than Kassian for Hodgson, yes? Ever stop to consider that Kassian was the best offer that the Canucks got for Hodgson? And based on Hodgson's play at the time of the trade, and the chances that he wouldn't be a playoff performer against the tighter checking and physical play in the playoffs, his stock was going down. (Yes, he rookie of the month in January. What did he do in February?)

Who knows, maybe Hodgson would have done okay, but Gillis decided to move him while his value was still high, rather than wait on the hope that it might go higher.

regards,

G.

[GoLions]

Kassian is still a work in progress, albeit looking better all the time, but this endless comparison to Hodgson is somewhat irrelevant now Torts is the coach - Hodgson is definitely not a Torts type of player.

[Hairy Kneel]

this horse is dead...oh wait..

[Plaguez]

Richardson's numbers are irrelevant. So are Weise's, Higgins', Sestito's, etc.

Because no one is whining about trading our future team captain for them.

I'm alright with boosting Kassian's stats via weighted analysis, but what's being forgotten is that Coho's offense this season, such as it is, has come against top checking. Kassian's hasn't.

And while Coho can play some more minutes per game, Kassian has shown a bit of inconsistency in that regard.

However, while Coho has slowed down as of late and is now out due to injury, Kassian is slowly but surely getting better and more useful than his old self as of late. So the argument that Kassian helps us out more than Coho would've... Right now... Is a totally valid one.

Still not ultra-impressed with either player at this point. But liking what Kass might turn out to be. If he does nothing in the playoffs, then that's a huge disappointment.

BLASPHEMER!!!! You DARE to speak ill of Kassian whilst defending Hodgson in the same paragraph!?! BANISH HIM!!!

[Papayas]

this horse is dead...oh wait..

well someone resurrect that horse so they can do more beating on it.

Anyway.... wtf do people always need to bring in Hodgson whenever we talk about Kassian...to make it worse people like to bash one of the player in order to support the other one.. Why the hell can't both players would be good players in the NHL? Why one of them must suck hard and be a pylon?

This goes for both camps.. it's getting pretty old. Hodgson isn't the type of player the canucks need but he's not a bad player. Same thing goes for Kassian who is improving on a daily basis and will be a great player in the future. Now just stop this madness.

[canucksnihilist]

If Kassian didn't have some question marks... if his development into a top-6 player was sure thing... well, he simply would not have been available.

Gillis took the risk, and shipped out a good young player who was rocking the boat. Calculated risk that so far (let's be honest) has not worked out in our favor. However, this season is showing that in the long run, we may end up with the better player.

this. obviously.

[BlueLemming]

Kassian is progressing. I like to think his first real developing season is this year. When we acquired him he was trying to find his place, then during the lockout AV misused him and kept him on that 4th line. Now Torts is giving him his chances when he deserves it and putting him on the 4th when he deserves it. He's still young, let him develop.

[Canuck Surfer]

That's because the vast majority on this board are completely unrealistic when it's come to trades. The reason I rarely wander into the Armchair GMing section unless of course I'm bored and looking for a good laugh.

Btw, Gillis said he needs development but would also help now. The help now was physical presence not production. Unless of course MG has some hidden magic wand to suddenly transform Kassian from what he was producing in Buffalo. As I said, if Kassian was the same level offensively as Hodgson the trade would have cost considerably more than Hodgson. That shows you are unrealistic about trades right there.

So many here overrate Hodgson and underrate Kassian.

How am I unrealistic? When we traded Hodgson, he was on pace for just under 50 points as a rookie. He was scoring key goals at key times, spectacular ones at that, in games against Detroit and Boston. Hodgson was a very saleable commodity. Trading for a less developed prospect, no matter how big and strong, was a substantial setback for us. History has shown you can get solid veterans for promising young players.

The key problem was / is, that after Erhoff left he was the only guy not on the Sedin line with superior puck possession and passing skills. And GMMG did not replace that, nor has it emerged since. Add that to waiting for Kassian and we have not been as good a team.

As a fan of the team I cheer for Kassian now. Enjoy him in fact, for all the reasons his scouting report said we ultimately would. But the cost has been very high.

[Gross-Misconduct]

I think you may want to get yourself a new set of glasses.

Remember I said he will be a D.Penner type but a way better faster skater & better passing.

I think it's time for you to serve your Game misconduct cause you're way off on Kassian.

Hey guess what? I got myself a new set of glasses and guess what? Kassian still only has 9 points in 33 games. How can I be way off? I think I'm pretty bang on actually.

But I'll give you credit, your Kassian/Penner comparison is closer than most Kassian lovers here. Penner is a big body, who has scoerd 30 goals only once and hit 20+ 3 other times. He also has consistency problems like Kassian. If Kassian can hit those numbers, I'd be surprised but not shocked.

It's those Kassian fans who think he will be a 1st line, power forward, Bertuzzi in his prime like player that need to relax those unrealistic expectations.

[Canuck Surfer]

Yeah, the Canucks traded away a Shetland pony for a Clydesdale. Not knocking Shetland ponies. Each has their role, and the Canucks needed a larger horse. They are currently training him to pull a plow.

So what you are suggesting is that the Canucks should have gotten more than Kassian for Hodgson, yes? Ever stop to consider that Kassian was the best offer that the Canucks got for Hodgson?

regards,

G.

LOL on the horse comparison! Shetland pony being a pretty satirical association, Clydesdale pretty accurate...

Regarding the best deal offered? I highly doubt Hodgson was substantially shopped.

Reporters immediately started mentioning surprise comments by GM's who suggested they would have liked in on the bidding had they known he was in play. Dreger reported a GM being mad as they had targeted Hodgson but were told he was not available and had no chance even when trying to open the door. Nor did hockey "insiders" have wind of any move, even with Gallagher stirring the pot.

Kassian was on Gillis's short list, of what was it 6 players? By memory Turris was one also. Gillis is methodical. Got Stanton and Dalpe after following them, Booth as well, for "years." I have no doubt Hodgson was not shopped; just popped up when Gillis found a player on his hot list available. Or that Gillis held his cards, his"problem," close to his chest until it was played.

I would not be surprised if it was the only deal Gillis entertained.

[Canuck Surfer]

Hey guess what? I got myself a new set of glasses and guess what? Kassian still only has 9 points in 33 games. How can I be way off? I think I'm pretty bang on actually.

But I'll give you credit, your Kassian/Penner comparison is closer than most Kassian lovers here. Penner is a big body, who has scoerd 30 goals only once and hit 20+ 3 other times. He also has consistency problems like Kassian. If Kassian can hit those numbers, I'd be surprised but not shocked.

It's those Kassian fans who think he will be a 1st line, power forward, Bertuzzi in his prime like player that need to relax those unrealistic expectations.

I'd be more than happy if Kassian gets two rings playing a key role as Penner has; even if he's not particularly consistent.

Funny thing; drawing in a controversial stat, but Penner has been the league leader in +/- for a lot of this season.

I'd be thrilled if he became Chris Stewart. Who also has had to come to terms with how to train, and carry himself to provide some consistency.

Bertuzzi is beyond my dreams, or sense of possibilities...

[LeanBeef]

I'd be thrilled if he became Chris Stewart. Who also has had to come to terms with how to train, and carry himself to provide some consistency.

Stewart is far from consistent.

He's a good player and is one of my favorite players (when he actually tries) but there's times where he looks like a top player in the league and other times where he is a complete plug. Don't let his stats fool you, he gets a majority of his points while on a hot streak.

Anyways I understand the Stewart and Kassian comparison, just hope KAss can be more consistent than him.

[coryberg]

Speed? What speed? I havent seen any speed from him. But I have seen horrible skating that cant keep up. Strength? So do a lot of players and most of them can back it up with quick feet which Zac cant do.

How can I tell Kassian will never score 30 goals? Easy. I watch him play. He's brutal.

No speed, no shot, no offensive creativity. This is not the recipe for a 30 goal scorer. You think he'll ever hit 30? I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you.

Hey guess what? I got myself a new set of glasses and guess what? Kassian still only has 9 points in 33 games. How can I be way off? I think I'm pretty bang on actually.

I think the glasses comment was eluding to actually watching Kassian play rather than reading a stat sheet.

Kassian is actually very fast for his size, he has a bullet for a shot, I only wish he would use it more. As far as creativity he is showing it now that he is getting playing time with other skilled players. Pretty hard to be creative when you are playing with Sestito and Welsh, wonder how creative CoHo would be with those 2 on his wings and playing 7 mins a night.

[BanTSN]

Regarding the best deal offered? I highly doubt Hodgson was substantially shopped.

Yeah... We could've got LUKE SCHENN!

[Absent Canuck]

If Kassian didn't have some question marks... if his development into a top-6 player was sure thing... well, he simply would not have been available.

Gillis took the risk, and shipped out a good young player who was rocking the boat. Calculated risk that so far (let's be honest) has not worked out in our favor. However, this season is showing that in the long run, we may end up with the better player.

Agreed . The fact was he was only 21 and was not Lucic already . Sabres were not interested in holding hands for 5 years for the guy to develop.

Hodgson developed much faster and he was simply not good enough to be on our team. He was not better than Sedin or Kesler nor will he ever be.

So what were we going to do??? Let him rot here? He got traded to a team that wanted a first line center. My belief he is too slow to ever fill that mold and I believe Kassian will become Bertuzzi.

So I think we raped the Sabres. However, since that hasn't happened yet, few agree with me. I am not worried. I have seen enough of both to be convinced it will come to pass.

[Gross-Misconduct]

I think the glasses comment was eluding to actually watching Kassian play rather than reading a stat sheet.

Kassian is actually very fast for his size, he has a bullet for a shot, I only wish he would use it more. As far as creativity he is showing it now that he is getting playing time with other skilled players. Pretty hard to be creative when you are playing with Sestito and Welsh, wonder how creative CoHo would be with those 2 on his wings and playing 7 mins a night.

Here we go again with the Coho comparisons...Kassian's numbers suck but look at Cody, bla blah blah.

And where is this 'bullet shot'? I havent seen it. I'd say Garrison has a bullet shot and I've never seen Kassian shoot it like that ever.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Kassian's shot is not Brett Hull's, yes. Or Garrison's. But he has one. Used it just the other day. So i guess that's where it is. Bullet? No. There? Yes.

Same with Cody. (Whoops.)