David Booth: Hold onto him?

[13231]

With Booth playing solid hockey, he brings a balance to this team that we haven't had in the last few years. His cap hit may be questionable, but he is sort of like a Raffi Torres with a stronger offensive upside. The strongest quality Booth brings to our team is that with him, we have 3 solid lines that are offensive threats. Going into the wear and tear of the playoffs, this is absolutely necessary if we want to go far.

Many people are suggesting that we trade him at the deadline for whatever we can get. That is absolutely insane because we will be leaving a hole in our lineup that cannot be easily filled. When the 1st and 2nd lines don't produce, we are able to rely on Booth/Richardson/Kassian to provide a spark and they haven't let us down.

I say we give it until the end of the playoffs and realistically assess Booth's performance and go from there. I he produces solid numbers and helps the team, keep him (cap is going up and he only has one more year left), otherwise look at the market, see if there is an adequate replacement available and consider a trade or a buyout.

[13231]

no buy him out or trade him in the offseason

sign Callahan 6 x 6mil

Sedin Sedin Bur

Cally Kes Santo

Higgy Horvat Kassin

Hasn Richardson Ses

I don't know whether you or all the other people who suggest signing Callahan are trolls or are actually being serious. You do realize he is the captain of the Rangers and he is extremely valuable to them. They aren't just going to let him go. Even if he does make it to free agency, there will be an abundance of teams trying to sign him.

[CanucksJay]

Schroeder has YET to PROVE he can be a regular NHL'r. With all his injuries who knows where he'll even be once he's ready to play. I mean Jensen is still in the AHL. I'm not sold at all on any of those 2 guys yet. Schroeder too small for 3rd line on a PLAYOFF contender. He will get eaten up by the LA's Blues, Bruins,etc.. & Jensen is not a Torts player, he's a softie and just has not shown any level of consistent scoring on the American Ice.

Booth maybe playing better but is not worth 4+ mill per year. I'd take another couple of Higgy's at 2 mill each than 1 Booth anyday.

We do need a Booth like guy but one that is a legit top 6 producer especially for that money.

We are also in need of an Ott for our 3rd line. centre which will give us that added grit toughness depth scorer for the deep playoff run we are going to be on this year if the proper pieces are put in place by Mr. GMMG.

We are close yet those last few pieces are the hardest to find. We do have some guys that can be traded to get those pieces though. Players that we have shown we can still win without. Edler, Burrows, Booth, Jensen, Schroeder, Lu, just some expandable players in my eyes but only if you get back something that will help (improve) our team. (eg. Ladd, E.Kane, Ott, Matthias, Callahan,)

It's all about having the right pieces cause without them you can't solve the puzzle.

We haven't seen what Schroeder can do to already write him off.

Yes he is small but he is quick and strong on his skates. We've seen small guys play tough when there is team toughness and I think that is how Schroeder will play. If he is playing with Booth and Kassian, there is enough size on the line to make up for Schroeder's lack of size. Look at a little punk like Marchand when he has the Goons watching his back, he plays bigger. In fact when Schroeder became the all time scoring leader for USA in World Juniors, he was playing alongside JVR who had size.

Last year, on a short leash with AV, Schroeder proved he was not a defensive liability. In fact while playing it ultra safe, he still managed to put up some critical points during a stretch (while surrounded by lack of talent).

I think we really owe it to both Schroeder AND our scouting department before we write him off and essentially trade him for a bag of pucks.

In fact, I just re-looked at his stats.

AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE?

He started off with a bang by scoring 9 pts in 11 games in the AHL after finishing his college season

Then,

In his first full year in the AHL, he was scoring at 0.46 pts/game

2nd year in the AHL, he was scoring at 0.58 pts/game

3rd year, he was scoring at 0.79 pts / game

In his first year as an NHLer last year, he put up 0.29 pts per game while playing on a tight 3rd line defensive role playing with grinders.

He's had success at every stage of hockey in his career and has always shown improvement and you guys really wanna give up on this kid?

Even if he tops at puts up 0.5 pts /game as a 3rd line centre (which by looking at this past performance is definitely within reach), that's pretty solid.

Sometimes I really feel like CDC has short term memory and forgets a players value when they either get injured or in a slump.

I'm against guys that are on perennial slumps for 2-3 year stretches but Schroeder has never come close to anything like that during his career with Vancouver so I am still a proponent of keeping him and giving him a chance to succeed.

If he still cannot put up 0.5 pts / game in 2 years while playing with guys like Booth and Kassian, I say he's done but until then, give the little guy some support.

[EagleShield]

We haven't seen what Schroeder can do to already write him off.

Yes he is small but he is quick and strong on his skates. We've seen small guys play tough when there is team toughness and I think that is how Schroeder will play. If he is playing with Booth and Kassian, there is enough size on the line to make up for Schroeder's lack of size. Look at a little punk like Marchand when he has the Goons watching his back, he plays bigger. In fact when Schroeder became the all time scoring leader for USA in World Juniors, he was playing alongside JVR who had size.

Last year, on a short leash with AV, Schroeder proved he was not a defensive liability. In fact while playing it ultra safe, he still managed to put up some critical points during a stretch (while surrounded by lack of talent).

I think we really owe it to both Schroeder AND our scouting department before we write him off and essentially trade him for a bag of pucks.

In fact, I just re-looked at his stats.

AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE?

He started off with a bang by scoring 9 pts in 11 games in the AHL after finishing his college season

Then,

In his first full year in the AHL, he was scoring at 0.46 pts/game

2nd year in the AHL, he was scoring at 0.58 pts/game

3rd year, he was scoring at 0.79 pts / game

In his first year as an NHLer last year, he put up 0.29 pts per game while playing on a tight 3rd line defensive role playing with grinders.

He's had success at every stage of hockey in his career and has always shown improvement and you guys really wanna give up on this kid?

Even if he tops at puts up 0.5 pts /game as a 3rd line centre (which by looking at this past performance is definitely within reach), that's pretty solid.

The problem with Schroeder is that we don't have space for him on this team. He's not a bad player at all, but as far as centremen go, our top 3 next year will be Henrik, Kesler and Horvat. Schroeder is not suited to playing the 4th line role. If he can come back and play good this year, I'd hope we could get a 2nd for him.

This might work next year:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows

??? - Kesler - Santorelli

Higgins - Horvat - Kassian

Gaunce - Schroeder - Hansen

Richardson

but there is a lot of inexperience there, and a lot riding on what kind of top 6 forward we could get in free agency, and looking at having a 3a and 3b line rather than a traditional 4th line.

[canucksnihilist]

After living with the pain for so long... of course you hold onto him when shows signs of actually becoming a good player.

[Canada Hockey Place]

I feel VAN should trade him as he's not in a position to succeed here.

Booth is an offensive top 6 forward. Would fit better on other teams. He's under utilized on this team.

He's a prime candidate for a change of scenery resurrection. He's looking healthy. Kept up a good attitude. I think if other teams are looking, Booth is on their radar.

[Sergei Shirokov]

The problem with Schroeder is that we don't have space for him on this team. He's not a bad player at all, but as far as centremen go, our top 3 next year will be Henrik, Kesler and Horvat. Schroeder is not suited to playing the 4th line role. If he can come back and play good this year, I'd hope we could get a 2nd for him.

This might work next year:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows

??? - Kesler - Santorelli

Higgins - Horvat - Kassian

Gaunce - Schroeder - Hansen

Richardson

but there is a lot of inexperience there, and a lot riding on what kind of top 6 forward we could get in free agency, and looking at having a 3a and 3b line rather than a traditional 4th line.

I don't know if Horvat is really above Schroeder on our depth chart. Junior to professional hockey is a huge step. Over the last few years, there's been so many times I've seen our prospects out right fail in the AHL. Schroeder, in the least, has proven he can play very well in the AHL. He's a lot of more polished than any of our prospects currently in Junior or the AHL.

So many people are writing off Schroeder. I don't think he'll be a star player in the league, but I do think he can become a solid NHL player...kind of like Mason Raymond. Maybe not as fast, but more skilled, and stronger on the skates.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

He doesn't make that much, and bidding in the madhouse that is free agency will likely leave us with something much much worse. Look at freakin Clarkson.

I don't know whether you or all the other people who suggest signing Callahan are trolls or are actually being serious. You do realize he is the captain of the Rangers and he is extremely valuable to them. They aren't just going to let him go. Even if he does make it to free agency, there will be an abundance of teams trying to sign him.

My thoughts. Booth provides an aspect to this team that we are missing come playoffs. Some one to drive the net and create havoc in front of the goalie. Every year our players get held to play perimeter hockey and we get a tone of shot with little actual scoring chances.

[Snake Doctor]

He's starting to look really good

4 million dollars worth? Not really.. I don't know if I could justify keeping booth for the price

I agree, we should be selling him at the deadline. We have not been sellers for a long time and I feel it's time to at least let a young guy take this third line role rather than an expensive gamble on Booth. Either way, yes he has improved his game in the last few weeks. But "Do we really want him?"

[aqua59]

Before I start, can we agree to keep any extravurrilcular activities he enjoys out of this thread. This is about him as a hockey player.

15 games into this season I was aboard the Buyout David Booth train. He was slow, he didn't seem motivated and he didn't have JT's trust, obviosuly. No brainer buyout at 4 and change right?

But now as we enter the second half of the season I think we should reconsider this.

I am very happy about his dedication to coming back, maybe not at a 30 goal pace, but at a point where he is a good player and can contribute. He has regained at least some of his speed, and while his balance may not be completely there, he looks dangerous at least a couple times a game. And he is working hard on the forecheck and laying the body

He is also one of the few canucks who can just bury their head and drive the net. He hasn't converted, on a few of them but they are glorious chances and refreshing to see from the cycle along the boards.

People forget that in his first year here, he scored 16 goals in just 56 games thats good for a 25 goal pace.

If you rewind to the playoff series against LA, true he didn't score, but neither did a bunch of the Canucks (there was this guy named Quick...). However, he was an absolute horse, hitting everything he could and it was fun to watch.

Obviously if he regresses or gets injured again, then the tune will change, but if he can keep up this level of play, with the cap going up to 71. If we can integrate lower salary young players like Horvat and Corrado, and maybe move Edler, I think it'd be in our best interest to keep the guy.

Inflation. Cap goes up salary for potential signings go up. David only has a year left after this one, if it doesn't work out then you can let him go

I think one has to ask one's self if this short term of improvement warrants inflation in Booth's trade value? Vancouver, if you have been listening to what management has been saying, is in the business of using Booth for the reasons they traded for him in the first place.

If they were, or could trade him, he has to play better for more than a batch of games.

[djlegere]

Booth is certainly more valuable to us on our team (whether playing or eventual trade) than he is being bought out which does nothing for us. The potential is there and he seems to be getting healthy again as well as gaining more confidence and chemistry with Kassian....if we buy him out who do we replace him with?

Also, I'm sick of people saying that we should trade Edler. He will turn it around... God Canuck fans are the worst at giving up on our players...

[djlegere]

Booth is certainly more valuable to us on our team (whether playing or eventual trade) than he is being bought out which does nothing for us. The potential is there and he seems to be getting healthy again as well as gaining more confidence and chemistry with Kassian....if we buy him out who do we replace him with?

Also, I'm sick of people saying that we should trade Edler. He will turn it around... God Canuck fans are the worst at giving up on our players...

[canucklehead44]

Booth is 3rd on the team in even strength goals per 60 minutes and 6th in points. While he isn't putting up huge numbers, he is contributing in the limited ice time he has. Considering he was abysmal in his first 14 games this number is solid.

He has 7 points in his last 13 averaging around 13 minutes per night with limited PP. If the Kassian/Booth/Richardson line keeps playing like they have I can see their ice time increase and potentially get more powerplay time.

The cost to buy out booth would be (please correct me if I am wrong) 1.42 million in cap space over the next 4 years.

So, that means we could replace him for a free agent signing between 2.75-3 million over 4 years.

What would that have gotten us?

Damien Brunner - 13 points 32 games

Mikhail Grabovski - 29 points 35 games

Boyd Gordon - 11 points 33 games

Tyler Kennedy - 12 points 36 games

Victor Stalberg - 11 points 31 games

Cal Clutterbuck - 6 points 32 games

Outside of Grabovski I would rather take my chance on Booth over any of those players. I would like to revisit this thread at the end of the year, as I predict a healthy Booth will put up around 40 points vs 25-30 for most of these guys.

I know it is a different offseason but this just illustrates how buying out Booth isn't the obvious decision. I think we have suffered through more of his downside than his upside. I know he is a gamble, but I would take it on the off chance he becomes the player he once was. Five seasons ago he was a player Canucks fans were drooling over to get.

[riffraff]

[bobopan]

Still a buyout for me.

[canucklehead44]

I guess really there are two camps: one who believes this is just a stretch of good games for Booth before he sucks or gets injured again and the other who believes he is finding his game and is on the uptrend.

Extrapolate his last 13 games and you have 25 goals, 44 points in 82 games. Given his minutes it is worth paying him 4.25 million on the third line to balance out scoring.

I guess my criteria for keep vs buy-out would be "30" points. If he can hit 30 points this year it is worth keeping him (or if he scores at a pace better than .46 ppg).

If he gets injured for 10+ games, but still puts up around 26 points he would still be worth keeping. Any more than 10 games missed I would say buy him out unless he scores at some sort of rapid pace (like 17 points in 20 games or something).

[bobopan]

Booth is 3rd on the team in even strength goals per 60 minutes and 6th in points. While he isn't putting up huge numbers, he is contributing in the limited ice time he has. Considering he was abysmal in his first 14 games this number is solid.

He has 7 points in his last 13 averaging around 13 minutes per night with limited PP. If the Kassian/Booth/Richardson line keeps playing like they have I can see their ice time increase and potentially get more powerplay time.

The cost to buy out booth would be (please correct me if I am wrong) 1.42 million in cap space over the next 4 years.

So, that means we could replace him for a free agent signing between 2.75-3 million over 4 years.

What would that have gotten us?

Damien Brunner - 13 points 32 games

Mikhail Grabovski - 29 points 35 games

Boyd Gordon - 11 points 33 games

Tyler Kennedy - 12 points 36 games

Victor Stalberg - 11 points 31 games

Cal Clutterbuck - 6 points 32 games

Outside of Grabovski I would rather take my chance on Booth over any of those players. I would like to revisit this thread at the end of the year, as I predict a healthy Booth will put up around 40 points vs 25-30 for most of these guys.

I know it is a different offseason but this just illustrates how buying out Booth isn't the obvious decision. I think we have suffered through more of his downside than his upside. I know he is a gamble, but I would take it on the off chance he becomes the player he once was. Five seasons ago he was a player Canucks fans were drooling over to get.

HUH? A whole lotta effort in that post for nothing. Still 1 more compliance buyout..

[riffraff]

Ok in all seriousness.....take the gamble and roll with it as the third line chemistry seems to be growing.

Its not "our time" but that said, assuming we make the playoffs, see if he can produce along with his linemates.

If he gets injured again or disappears before the deadline; buyout.

If he noshows in the playoffs; buyout.

[dank.sinatra]

I still currently say try to dump him just because of his cap hit. Although he has been the perfect third line winger lately, I wouldn't mind keeping him but 4.25 is steep for a third liner... even a really good one.

[Canuck Surfer]

And I keep asking why Edler is going to waive his ntc within a year of getting it for taking less than market value.

The few times I've heard of it happening it was the player asking to be moved because he wasn't happy in his current situation. Like Pronger asking to be moved out of Edmonton after one season because his wife absolutely hated it there. The majority of waived ntc's are players who are pending ufa's on non-playoff teams or players who are unhappy in their situation and actually ask to be moved. Neither scenario applies to Edler. Add in MG's public statement that he won't ask players to waive their ntc and Edler proposals become completely pointless.

LOL; Pronger had a kid with a hot blonde local beat reporter who did the weather, but also interviews in the Oiler dressing room. Prongers wife wasn't so keen on him continuing to "hang out..."