[Official] Toronto Blue Jays Major League Baseball thread

[Down by the River]

12 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said:

I've watched the dugout and how players interact alot this year. Bo is a complete outsider in terms of the vibe in that dugout. No fun zone for him, Vladdy seems to sidestep him as well whenever they celebrate a run / homer ect. 

 

I'm only really on year 2 of watching this team so don't take my word for it lol.. just an observation I've had

You're right about Bo's approach. But to me, I have zero issue with a guy who takes the game of baseball really seriously.

 

The problem I have with Bo is whether he takes baseball seriously or his image seriously. For someone who puts on a serious face he has some obnoxious approaches at the plate. 

 

I found the Donaldson/Bautista/Encarnacion era more enjoyable because they (especially Donaldson and Bautista) were such students of the game. 

[Brad Marchand]

1 hour ago, Down by the River said:

You're right about Bo's approach. But to me, I have zero issue with a guy who takes the game of baseball really seriously.

 

The problem I have with Bo is whether he takes baseball seriously or his image seriously. For someone who puts on a serious face he has some obnoxious approaches at the plate.

 

I found the Donaldson/Bautista/Encarnacion era more enjoyable because they (especially Donaldson and Bautista) were such students of the game. 

This is what drives me nuts about Bo. Just today, the Jays had a rally going in the bottom of the third, two runs already scored and runners at the corners with one out, what does he do? Ground into an inning-ending double play on the first pitch.

 

Dude tries to be a hero way too much, both at the plate and on the field. People might think of Vlad as a goofball, but he doesn't put himself above the team, he'll work walks or slap singles to get a rally going. Bo doesn't do that nearly often enough, which is why he belongs lower down the order.

 

To be clear, I don't think Bichette's bad or the sole reason the Jays are struggling, it's just that he's one of the more frustrating guys on the team to watch when things aren't going well.

[shiznak]

I don’t know if this has anything to do with Bo’s struggles this season, but apparently he’s dealing with some personal issues within the family. 
 

I don’t want to start any rumours nor is it my business, but it is out there on the internet. Started by his own brother, Dante Jr.

[RUPERTKBD]

17 hours ago, Brad Marchand said:

They oughta keep White and Stripling in the rotation and either demote Kikuchi to the bullpen or DFA him, but I figure they won't because management still believes they can fix him.

 

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion, but I'm also open to moving Bichette before giving him a big contract. He pretty much encapsulates why this team is so inconsistent (no plate discipline, not a great contact hitter, below-average defence).

I think at this point, the obvious decision is for White to be in the rotation and Kikuchi goes to the pen as a long reliever, or against an opponent with lefties coming up.

 

I don't think they can afford to wait for him to turn it around any more. It's a bit of a miracle that they're still in the Wild Card race, but that will change pretty quick if they don't right the ship....

[RUPERTKBD]

17 hours ago, Brad Marchand said:

This is what drives me nuts about Bo. Just today, the Jays had a rally going in the bottom of the third, two runs already scored and runners at the corners with one out, what does he do? Ground into an inning-ending double play on the first pitch.

 

Dude tries to be a hero way too much, both at the plate and on the field. People might think of Vlad as a goofball, but he doesn't put himself above the team, he'll work walks or slap singles to get a rally going. Bo doesn't do that nearly often enough, which is why he belongs lower down the order.

 

To be clear, I don't think Bichette's bad or the sole reason the Jays are struggling, it's just that he's one of the more frustrating guys on the team to watch when things aren't going well.

Apparently John Schneider has been thinking along with you guys....according to Shi Davidi, Bichette has been moved to the 7th spot in the order. Teo has also been demoted, moving to the #6 slot.

 

Chapman has moved up to 5th, hitting behind Springer, Vladdy, Gurriel and Kirk....Espy and JBJ (who gets the start in Center) are at the bottom of the order.

 

Alek Manoah starts against Dean Kremer, who has a decent ERA of 3.69, but the WHIP is pretty high at a bit under 1.5....

[Gurn]

Funny, all the line up/batting order stuff that can go on.

Shouldn't they just bat in order of who has the best  %  that week/  or month?

Get the guy, most likely to get on, on; then the next best chance to advance that guy?

 

 

[Ralph.]

9 minutes ago, gurn said:

Funny, all the line up/batting order stuff that can go on.

Shouldn't they just bat in order of who has the best  %  that week/  or month?

Get the guy, most likely to get on, on; then the next best chance to advance that guy?

 

 

This is baseball, man. You've gotta consider at least eight different kinds of stats / fancy stats before making such a decision.

 

 

I see where you're coming from. I think a lot of it also has to do with batter's tendencies to hit different types of pitches, where they typically end up, and similarly the tendencies of the defence (pitchers and outfielders). But then again I still feel pretty new to baseball myself; I would indeed defer to Rup for these kinds of takes.

 

That said, yikes guys. I had such high hopes for this team this year. I am pretty well done with this front office, barring some sort of miracle turnaround.

[Pears]

29 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Apparently John Schneider has been thinking along with you guys....according to Shi Davidi, Bichette has been moved to the 7th spot in the order. Teo has also been demoted, moving to the #6 slot.

 

Chapman has moved up to 5th, hitting behind Springer, Vladdy, Gurriel and Kirk....Espy and JBJ (who gets the start in Center) are at the bottom of the order.

 

Alek Manoah starts against Dean Kremer, who has a decent ERA of 3.69, but the WHIP is pretty high at a bit under 1.5....

Maybe this will help get Bo to stop swinging at sliders 4 inches off the plate…

[RUPERTKBD]

14 minutes ago, Pears said:

Maybe this will help get Bo to stop swinging at sliders 4 inches off the plate…

i think the idea is to get him out of a big RBI spot, so he can concentrate on getting on base, rather than going yard all the time.

 

I read an excellent article recently, (unfortunately I can't remember the author) about how Bo has had a difficult time with high velocity pitches this season. (95 MPH and higher) It seems counterintuitive for a guy who generates so much bat speed, but it does seem like he's going off field a lot lately. That's likely because he's waiting too long to swing, or the swing itself has gotten too long.

 

In any event, the 7 spot is better suited for working your way out of a slump.

[RUPERTKBD]

Bats remain ice cold....

 

When I looked online and saw that the Jays had 2 runs after 2 batters, I thought maybe they were turning it around.....now 5 innings later, they're down 3-2....

[van_ws]

This looks like a team that won't win another game this season. Can't score more than 2 runs a game, sloppy fundamental baseball with the errors and baserunning mistakes. If they don't turn it around soon then the season is over. Tough to watch, this is just ugly.

[Brad Marchand]

5 minutes ago, van_ws said:

This looks like a team that won't win another game this season. Can't score more than 2 runs a game, sloppy fundamental baseball with the errors and baserunning mistakes. If they don't turn it around soon then the season is over. Tough to watch, this is just ugly.

The lineup just has too many of the same type of hitter: right handed, power-focused, not so great at drawing walks or making consistent contact. It's great when everyone's going, but you get nights like this when they aren't. Not an accident that the team is so streaky given the way the roster was built.

 

I'd give a serious thought to moving on from one of Bichette, Hernandez or Chapman. Chapman provides good value as a defensive 3B so I think he's worth keeping short-term, but both Bichette and Hernandez are below average fielders who need new contracts sooner rather than later. Sell one or even both of them high, have Moreno and Espinal fill the infield and overhaul the team's plate approach during the offseason.

[Mustard Tiger]

Toronto Trash Bandicoots

[King Heffy]

2 hours ago, Brad Marchand said:

The lineup just has too many of the same type of hitter: right handed, power-focused, not so great at drawing walks or making consistent contact. It's great when everyone's going, but you get nights like this when they aren't. Not an accident that the team is so streaky given the way the roster was built.

 

I'd give a serious thought to moving on from one of Bichette, Hernandez or Chapman. Chapman provides good value as a defensive 3B so I think he's worth keeping short-term, but both Bichette and Hernandez are below average fielders who need new contracts sooner rather than later. Sell one or even both of them high, have Moreno and Espinal fill the infield and overhaul the team's plate approach during the offseason.

I'm not sure I trust this management group to do it though.  First move should needs to be cleaning house in the front-office/

[UnkNuk]

21 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I'm not sure I trust this management group to do it though.  First move should needs to be cleaning house in the front-office/

Admittedly, I don't follow baseball all the closely.

 

But aren't the Blue Jays in a playoff position?

 

Why is there so much criticism of the team and the front office?

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

Admittedly, I don't follow baseball all the closely.

 

But aren't the Blue Jays in a playoff position?

 

Why is there so much criticism of the team and the front office?

Same issues as the Oilers.  Great offence but awful pitching, with management seeming to be unwilling to fix it.

[RUPERTKBD]

14 hours ago, Brad Marchand said:

The lineup just has too many of the same type of hitter: right handed, power-focused, not so great at drawing walks or making consistent contact. It's great when everyone's going, but you get nights like this when they aren't. Not an accident that the team is so streaky given the way the roster was built.

 

I'd give a serious thought to moving on from one of Bichette, Hernandez or Chapman. Chapman provides good value as a defensive 3B so I think he's worth keeping short-term, but both Bichette and Hernandez are below average fielders who need new contracts sooner rather than later. Sell one or even both of them high, have Moreno and Espinal fill the infield and overhaul the team's plate approach during the offseason.

i mentioned this before the trade deadline.....I think Bo is the one I'd choose.

 

As you say, he's below average defensively, but he's still considered a top offensive SS. I think he'd have the most value in a trade and the Jays are going to have to fork over big money to him if they decide to keep him. The fact that it coincides with Vladdy's contract situation compounds the money issue....

 

The Jays have a highly touted SS in the system in Orelvis Martinez. Although he's dropped to #90 in prospect rankings, he's only 20 and playing in AA. By all accounts he is expected to hit for power.

 

From Bluejays Nation:

Quote

Orelvis Martinez has 14 home runs in 165 plate appearances as a 20-year-old in Double A. While there are concerns about Martinez’s game, his power could be classified as generational. His swing is a thing of beauty.

Espy can keep the spot warm until Orelvis is ready fro prime time, or the jays could sign a journeyman as a placeholder in the off season....

[RUPERTKBD]

12 hours ago, UnkNuk said:

Admittedly, I don't follow baseball all the closely.

 

But aren't the Blue Jays in a playoff position?

 

Why is there so much criticism of the team and the front office?

They are, but what was a comfortable position, is now one they are barely hanging on to. Terrible time to be slumping, because there are a half dozen teams within striking distance and you can't expect all of them to play poorly as well. Ironically, the only team slumping at the same level as the Jays right now are the Yankees....

 

People are upset with management because the issues that have led to this losing streak were evident before the trade deadline, but management did the bare minimum to address these shortcomings, while the teams around them in the standings went in much harder.

 

We're now seeing the consequences of that lack of action and it's looking like a repeat of last year's wasted season....

[van_ws]

1 hour ago, RUPERTKBD said:

They are, but what was a comfortable position, is now one they are barely hanging on to. Terrible time to be slumping, because there are a half dozen teams within striking distance and you can't expect all of them to play poorly as well. Ironically, the only team slumping at the same level as the Jays right now are the Yankees....

 

People are upset with management because the issues that have led to this losing streak were evident before the trade deadline, but management did the bare minimum to address these shortcomings, while the teams around them in the standings went in much harder.

 

We're now seeing the consequences of that lack of action and it's looking like a repeat of last year's wasted season....

I think most fans would like to see Shatkins replaced with a proven winner. It's not like they built anything to write home about in Cleveland.

 

Competitive windows are short so they can close abruptly with enough wasted years. If you aren't winning and making the playoffs then why would star players want to even stay with the Jays? Honestly if I was a player then I would jump to a perennial contender like the Dodgers, Yankees, Astros, etc. any day.

[King Heffy]

13 minutes ago, van_ws said:

I think most fans would like to see Shatkins replaced with a proven winner. It's not like they built anything to write home about in Cleveland.

 

Competitive windows are short so they can close abruptly with enough wasted years. If you aren't winning and making the playoffs then why would star players want to even stay with the Jays? Honestly if I was a player then I would jump to a perennial contender like the Dodgers, Yankees, Astros, etc. any day.

The problem with this management group is that they're very willing to take a risk on a potential bargain reclamation project but they won't take a risk on bringing in a high end guy.  The window is open now and we really need a guy like AA or Gillick who is willing to go all-in.

Edited August 17, 2022 by King Heffy