The "I would like to see Torts stay for at least one more year" thread.

[fanfor42]

And you're any better? Calling someone an idiot? Cowardly and gutless is what you are.

Oh come on Phil. Seriously, get a day job.

[Honky Cat]

I beg to differ. From what was reported today (Farhan Lalji) the core players he spoke to after their interviews with Linden stated they were very matter a fact about the whole thing. No knives and or high 5's. Just the facts so to speak. MOST of the players liked what he brought as far as knowledge, stategy, and hockey sense, but didn't like the drama that went with it. NONE demanded a trade if Torts was brought back, and ALL stated they would be OK playing another year with Torts as coach. Personally, I think the reason that it's taking so long is that it isn't as cut and dried as many thought it was, as there seems to be a genuine process going on here.

The executive decision will come from the new GM...Hopefully it's Benning..

[wallstreetamigo]

This team is in the playoffs with better coaching.

I'm not saying they would have done anything as they certainly have regressed the past few years and lack depth but they were a playoff team with better coaching.

Buffalo to Boston? No.

But from wrong side to right side of a playoff bubble team? Yes.

Let that sink in.

In the long run, we'll likely be the better for it with both a high pick and a longer summer for the team to recover and train. But I digress..

This thread isn't about the players or the GM, it's about the coach. He did a piss poor job, he's not current management's hire and I've yet to see a good reason to retain him.

You really look at the team we iced this season combined with the vast improvements of many of the other teams in the conference and think only coaching made the difference between the playoffs or not? Sorry man but that is just delusional. This team is one of the weakest depth-wise in the West. We have 3 top 6 players - the Sedins and Kesler - and Daniel's effectiveness is particularly debatable. The rest of the veteran forwards are tweeners who do not possess the consistent talent to provide secondary offense.

Our top 4 defence is possibly the most overrated in the entire NHL. Hamhuis and Tanev are a good shutdown pairing but none of Edler, Bieksa, or Garrison are good enough to carry the offensive load. Bieksa and Edler still have severe issues defensively unless paired with the right partner. Unfortunately Ehrhoff, Salo, and Mitchell are long gone. And Hamhuis is better with Tanev.

The reality is that this core group is stale and unable to ever get back to where they have been. Time for some big changes towards youth, speed, size, and scoring ability. Gillis' legacy of no tweener left behind needs to go. Jensen and Kassian look like they could be legit top 6 players. Construct a 3rd line with guys like Santorelli, Matthias, and Hansen. And for god sake get a 4th line that can do something resembling what St Louis 4th line does. Hits, agitates, and chips in offensively and defensively.

[SuperReverb2]

The reason its undecided is because it wont be until a GM is hired and it becomes his decision, plain and simple!

I beg to differ. Linden has already publicly stated that he wants to make a decision SOONER than later. Most are surprised it has taken this long. If the rumors are true and Benning is the GM Linden wants, then that process may not even begin until late may - early June (just before the draft) depending on how the Bruins fare in the playoffs. Again, Linden has already PUBLICLY stated that he won't make Torts wait that long for a decision. Not fair to him or the rest of the coaching staff for that matter as one has to assume the assistants, etc., will be gone if Torts is in fact fired. Besides. Adding - hiring a new GM just before the draft, especially in a year that we draft a VERY important 6th, (let alone all the player moves we are expecting) makes for a VERY hectic time. Don't think the Canucks organization wants to add a new coach into that mix as well. Torts will either be long gone by that time with the new GM and coach being hired pretty much simultaneously, or Torts will still be the coach when the new GM is hired with the knowledge that Torts will be the starting coach (at least in the interim) for the 2014-2015 season.

[SuperReverb2]

You sir, are an idiot. Torts is the best coach we have ever seen? 25th in the league this year. You are absolutely hilarious. Freakin Hilarious! Ha ha I love it.

I guess Kesler must ne an idiot as well as he had publicly stated that Torts is the best coach he has ever played for. Just saying.....

[SuperReverb2]

The executive decision will come from the new GM...Hopefully it's Benning..

If it is Benning (and I hope it is) then that process - decision may not even happen until late May - early June. I really don't think Linden will make Torts and the rest of the coaching staff wait that long, considering he has already gone on public record by stating that he wants the "Torts" decision sooner than later.

[tas]

I guess Kesler must ne an idiot as well as he had publicly stated that Torts is the best coach he has ever played for. Just saying.....

aside from the fact that, yes, kesler is kind of an idiot, everything a member of the team says to the media is moot.

[RUPERTKBD]

Well he attempted to coach his team that way by shot blocking and playing a conservative defensive system both on offence and defence but he doesn't actually play does he?

The team sucked. You guys act like a good coach could've been the difference between the Sabres finishing last and getting the president's trophy.

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OUR TEAM SUCKED !!!!

This team is nowhere near as bad as the Sabres, they actually looked good up until the Christmas break. Then they fell off a cliff.

Yes, the schedule got a lot tougher, but no level of increased competition can explain, or excuse the freefall that occurred in 2014. All teams endure slumps, but It's the coach's job to make sure those slumps don't turn into the worst in decades.

You said he attempted to minimize mistakes. I don't know if that was really part of his "system", because from what I saw his system went largely undefined. However, if you're correct, he failed miserably in that aspect.

Minutes is minutes right?

Not necessarily. Certain players see optimal performance with a certain amount of ice time. It's not the same for all players (regardless of age) and it's up to the coach to figure out what those are.

It's also a fact that the minutes are tougher in the West. The teams are generally bigger and more physical and the travel is far more grueling than in the East.

[aGENT]

I'm not saying they would have done anything as they certainly have regressed the past few years and lack depth but they were a playoff team with better coaching.

You really look at the team we iced this season combined with the vast improvements of many of the other teams in the conference and think only coaching made the difference between the playoffs or not? Sorry man but that is just delusional. This team is one of the weakest depth-wise in the West. We have 3 top 6 players - the Sedins and Kesler - and Daniel's effectiveness is particularly debatable. The rest of the veteran forwards are tweeners who do not possess the consistent talent to provide secondary offense.

Our top 4 defence is possibly the most overrated in the entire NHL. Hamhuis and Tanev are a good shutdown pairing but none of Edler, Bieksa, or Garrison are good enough to carry the offensive load. Bieksa and Edler still have severe issues defensively unless paired with the right partner. Unfortunately Ehrhoff, Salo, and Mitchell are long gone. And Hamhuis is better with Tanev.

The reality is that this core group is stale and unable to ever get back to where they have been. Time for some big changes towards youth, speed, size, and scoring ability. Gillis' legacy of no tweener left behind needs to go. Jensen and Kassian look like they could be legit top 6 players. Construct a 3rd line with guys like Santorelli, Matthias, and Hansen. And for god sake get a 4th line that can do something resembling what St Louis 4th line does. Hits, agitates, and chips in offensively and defensively.

You obviously missed the above part of my post so you may want to read it again

Simple facts are that without some of the boneheaded coaching mistakes made this year, this team has a few more points and squeeks in to the playoffs. Period. Whether they get blown out in the first round is irrelevant. They're a better team with better coaching. That is my sole and only point. Not whether they're as good as the top teams (they're clearly not) or would contend for the cup. Clear?

As for your off tangent rant re: the players and MG. Here's a pretty good look at next year's "likely" lineup with pretty much zero changes AKA: all MG's work:

Sedin, Sedin, Jensen

UFA/prospect, Kesler, Kassian

Burrows, Horvat, Santorelli

Higgins, Richardson, Matthias

That is already infinitely better than this year's lineup. Top contending team? Probably not. But at least a lot closer and with four actual, viable lines that can actually be played (with the right coach).

[Angry Goose]

Rangers blocked 28 shots the other nights vs Philly. Here's what AV had to say:

“Shot blocking is a skill, but it takes a lot of will and courage. Our guys have that,” Rangers coach Alain Vigneault said Wednesday during a conference call. “It has more to do with the willingness to find that lane and block that shot.

“You know it’s coming and you know it’s going to hurt. That’s just part of winning hockey. Teams that usually have that in their repertoire are usually good teams. We had to make some great defensive plays.”

[Guest]

AIm to be mediocre !! yea !!!!!!!!!! Sedins r still tha best we only need 3 top forwards that have suked for the past 3 years and have gotten bounced in the playoffs like there is no tomorrow!! lets keep forward with this same group for til they retire!!! they will come bak n win it all!!!!!!!!!! Stupid coaches fault that they r not winning and suking now the stupid coach dont know what to do with them they r still the best!!!!

[aGENT]

Rangers blocked 28 shots the other nights vs Philly. Here's what AV had to say:

FWIW, shot blocking is not even remotely one of the many reasons Torts should be fired.

[Me_]

We also need point men that can hit the net UNLIKE Garrison. I sure miss Salo sometimes.

So did Tampa Bay

[RUPERTKBD]

AIm to be mediocre !! yea !!!!!!!!!! Sedins r still tha best we only need 3 top forwards that have suked for the past 3 years and have gotten bounced in the playoffs like there is no tomorrow!! lets keep forward with this same group for til they retire!!! they will come bak n win it all!!!!!!!!!! Stupid coaches fault that they r not winning and suking now the stupid coach dont know what to do with them they r still the best!!!!

As weak an attempt at sarcasm as I've seen in a long time...

You may think that you're projecting childishness upon others, but you're not projecting at all.

[Me_]

AIm to be mediocre !! yea !!!!!!!!!! Sedins r still tha best we only need 3 top forwards that have suked for the past 3 years and have gotten bounced in the playoffs like there is no tomorrow!! lets keep forward with this same group for til they retire!!! they will come bak n win it all!!!!!!!!!! Stupid coaches fault that they r not winning and suking now the stupid coach dont know what to do with them they r still the best!!!!

So you're saying.... what are you saying?

[Angry Goose]

FWIW, shot blocking is not even remotely one of the many reasons Torts should be fired.

but alot of people here on CDC think it is one of the main reasons Torts should be fired

[aGENT]

but alot of people here on CDC think it is one of the main reasons Torts should be fired

First, I think "a lot" (there's a space there by the way ) is overstating things. There's been a few people complaining about it...certainly not the majority or "a lot".

Second, blocking shots is not the problem. The zero d-zone pressure while collapsing back (and blocking shots) is the issue. It's not that Tort's system includes blocking shots but how the shots are blocked that is the issue.

[oldnews]

Rangers blocked 28 shots the other nights vs Philly. Here's what AV had to say:

Blocked shots are a dubious statistic.

Who lead the NHL in blocked shots last year? Toronto. Why? Because they give up a boatload of shots is a large part of it.

New Jersey, Los Angeles, Ottawa, Chicago, Detroit and Boston were 6 of the 7 teams with the lowest shot block totals this year.

Last year, the Kings, Devils, Detroit, Canucks, Senators, Bruins and Blackhawks were all in the bottom 10 in the NHL in shot block totals.

Vancouver went from 27th to 11th. Does that mean they're a better defensive team? Yeah, not really.

Calgary, Toronto and Edmonton - all in the top 6 this year. Doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

Shot blocking totals do not really indicate whether a team is a good team, a gritty team, a defensive team - in some cases they are, in others, they're just bad hockey teams that give up a great deal of shots, period.

Judging by the fact that all the recent Stanley Cup Champions reside in the bottom 10 in NHL shot block totals the last couple years, one might conclude that preventing shots in the first place is far more effective than blocking them.

That would involve playing effective defensive hockey before the point of collapsing in one's own zone.

How did those teams remain relatively healthy? Well, minimizing the frequency with which they must get in front of a puck travelling 100 mph may have something to do with it - even in the case of the big, bad Boston Bruins.

[Honky Cat]

I beg to differ. Linden has already publicly stated that he wants to make a decision SOONER than later. Most are surprised it has taken this long. If the rumors are true and Benning is the GM Linden wants, then that process may not even begin until late may - early June (just before the draft) depending on how the Bruins fare in the playoffs. Again, Linden has already PUBLICLY stated that he won't make Torts wait that long for a decision. Not fair to him or the rest of the coaching staff for that matter as one has to assume the assistants, etc., will be gone if Torts is in fact fired. Besides. Adding - hiring a new GM just before the draft, especially in a year that we draft a VERY important 6th, (let alone all the player moves we are expecting) makes for a VERY hectic time. Don't think the Canucks organization wants to add a new coach into that mix as well. Torts will either be long gone by that time with the new GM and coach being hired pretty much simultaneously, or Torts will still be the coach when the new GM is hired with the knowledge that Torts will be the starting coach (at least in the interim) for the 2014-2015 season.

I think it would be unfair to the new GM to retain the coach from the previous regime....Everybody saw through that scenario ,when Burke became Canucks GM ,and Keenan was retained...The Canucks brand needs a complete overhaul,...

[Angry Goose]

Blocked shots are a dubious statistic.

Who lead the NHL in blocked shots last year? Toronto. Why? Because they give up a boatload of shots is a large part of it.

New Jersey, Los Angeles, Ottawa, Chicago, Detroit and Boston were 6 of the 7 teams with the lowest shot block totals this year.

Last year, the Kings, Devils, Detroit, Canucks, Senators, Bruins and Blackhawks were all in the bottom 10 in the NHL in shot block totals.

Vancouver went from 27th to 11th. Does that mean they're a better defensive team? Yeah, not really.

Calgary, Toronto and Edmonton - all in the top 6 this year. Doesn't take a genius to figure out why.

Shot blocking totals do not really indicate whether a team is a good team, a gritty team, a defensive team - in some cases they are, in others, they're just bad hockey teams that give up a great deal of shots, period.

Judging by the fact that all the recent Stanley Cup Champions reside in the bottom 10 in NHL shot block totals the last couple years, one might conclude that preventing shots in the first place is far more effective than blocking them.

That would involve playing effective defensive hockey before the point of collapsing in one's own zone.

How did those teams remain relatively healthy? Well, minimizing the frequency with which they must get in front of a puck travelling 100 mph may have something to do with it - even in the case of the big, bad Boston Bruins.

Sure, you can construe stats to fit the argument you want to make, but you missed the context of my point. AV said himself that blocking shots are a fundamental part of hockey, and that it is no surprise that winning teams know how to do it. Just because TOR wasn't exactly a playoff team this season doesn't mean they should give up blocking shots. They might have to play better defensive hockey in their own zone to minimize shots taken, yes, but that doesn't entail they should stop blocking shots. In other words, people shouldn't look at blocking shots out of context or heap all this criticism on Torts because he thinks that getting into shooting lanes to negate scoring chances is good, fundamental hockey. People who criticize him for that obviously don't play hockey. Do you?