So can we assume A V wasn't the problem?

[Honky Cat]

Aw....Poor widdle baby.

What are you ..9 years old..?..I've noticed with your posts that you like to come across as the 'hardline' guy..You can obviously dish it out pretty good..too bad you can't take it..just bottom feed and start calling names..Get well soon Phil..

[Riviera82]

NHL meddling with contracts; lower cap hit; goalie controversy; changing divisions: all of these ensured that the Nucks could not bring in some new talent or depth. Yeah, Gillis got what he could, but not anything that would make the team contenders. Being in the Pacific Division demanded change, but MGs hands were tied. A great number of people around here could see that this season was going to be mediocre at best

Significant injuries, new coaching staff/systems; Olympics; too many back to back games: this combination wore out the players.

The team managed to hang on until Christmas, but then the wheels fell off.

Things will be much better next season.

MG tied his own hands by hitching his wagon and padlocking it to a group of players who'd become too old, complacent, and had diminishing or not that much talent to begin with.

[Riviera82]

On the AV front, he's one game away from being eliminated in the first round tomorrow. He also now has the benefit of playing in the Metro division which in terms of just making the playoffs is a cakewalk compared to the Pacific.

[PhillipBlunt]

What are you ..9 years old..?..I've noticed with your posts that you like to come across as the 'hardline' guy..You can obviously dish it out pretty good..too bad you can't take it..just bottom feed and start calling names..Get well soon Phil..

Right. Miserable dick isn't name calling? I can take it. What makes you think to the contrary?

You really are a whiny little bugger. That's okay, Honky. Learn to accept your inadequacies.

[PhillipBlunt]

I don't know what ideas could have made up for the loss of Hamhuis, and then Rome.

Game 7 - Bieksa plays over 28 minutes, Edler 26, Ehrhoff is wounded and plays almost 21, Tanev was a 21 year old who'd played 29 games in the NHL playing 14 minutes, with Alberts, who has improved considerably since then, but imo you're just not going to beat an elite team at that point without your best defenseman and another top 6 out. Competition is too tight.f They needed more than 8 minutes out of their best defenseman in that series.

I'm not so sure how lucky AV has been landing in NY. The word on how good the Rangers roster is wasn't quite as flattering at the end of last season. I think he has his share of responsibility for the perception that the team in now stacked - they weren't quite perceived that way after being ground down to the state they were in.

Certainly the loss of Hamhuis was a blow that was hard to come back from. I'm of the mind, if he had not tried to bench press Lucic, the outcome of the Finals would have been different.

That being said, Game 7 could have gone better. Yes there were vast injuries but to be shut out on home ice was embarrassing. AV had an opportunity to make a final stand and the team went out with a whimper.

That game was the beginning of the slow decline. The mental frailty began to creep in and essentially stayed there. AV had a role in getting the team to refocus, but it never happened.

His message grew stale as did the team.

[aGENT]

Certainly the loss of Hamhuis was a blow that was hard to come back from. I'm of the mind, if he had not tried to bench press Lucic, the outcome of the Finals would have been different.

That being said, Game 7 could have gone better. Yes there were vast injuries but to be shut out on home ice was embarrassing. AV had an opportunity to make a final stand and the team went out with a whimper.

That game was the beginning of the slow decline. The mental frailty began to creep in and essentially stayed there. AV had a role in getting the team to refocus, but it never happened.

His message grew stale as did the team.

The year after those 2011 finals where we were - according to you - "mentaly fragile" we won the second President's trophy in a row and looking to head deep in to the playoffs. The only things that derailed that season were a broken Kesler and Duncan Keith's elbow to our leading scorers melon. Not "mental fragility"

[PhillipBlunt]

I disagree, but that's the beauty of CDC.

Whether Daniel was healthy or not, the team still lacked the killer instinct at that point. A fracture had begun to appear in façade.

Even if the team was fully healthy, I doubt they would have beaten either the Kings or Sharks. The mojo was lost, and the team chemistry was gone.

Also, the Presidents Trophy is nice and all, but not indicative of a championship team

[CrippledCanuck]

The decline since 2011 is the responsibility of 3 groups - Players, Coach, GM, every one of them have not lived up to their pay cheques. Since we have already replaced 1 coach and left the new one with the same group of fail players and GM(until recently), Linden needs to find a competent GM after SCF and convince what players they can to waive no trade clauses and build for the future. I have been watching the canucks since 81 and will be sticking with them through rebuild/retool, this situation is neither then end of the world or any worse than they have been through in the past.

[oldnews]

Certainly the loss of Hamhuis was a blow that was hard to come back from. I'm of the mind, if he had not tried to bench press Lucic, the outcome of the Finals would have been different.

That being said, Game 7 could have gone better. Yes there were vast injuries but to be shut out on home ice was embarrassing. AV had an opportunity to make a final stand and the team went out with a whimper.

That game was the beginning of the slow decline. The mental frailty began to creep in and essentially stayed there. AV had a role in getting the team to refocus, but it never happened.

His message grew stale as did the team.

I don't know if AV failed entirely in refocusing the team after the Game 7 loss.

They won the President's Trophy the following season, but faced a very similar situation to the SCF.

They weren't rewarded whatsoever for their dominant season. They wound up with a first round date with the next SCChampion, this one going on one of the more dominant rolls in SC history.

The Canucks drew LA in the first round and were without Daniel, and once again had a hobbled Kesler. What were their chances of taking out LA with those two guys at a fraction?

Daniel returned for game 4.... they absolutely dominated LA, leading Sutter, when asked what happened, to respond "the Sedins happened." They're nowhere near as soft as people like to project. For frack sakes, Henrik was absolutely steam-rolled by Brown and returned to give one of the most impressive and dominant performances I've seen in a playoff game, against a team with a beast of a back end.

All-in-all, I think the quality of the team is vastly underplayed over those two seasons.

Last year, again, I was pretty impressed with what AV managed through the regular season - and the playoffs - were a fracking joke imo. That SJ series is an embarrassment to zebras everywhere. Playoff standards were entirely turned on their head - in the Boston series, the Canucks had to live with leniency. In the SJ series, a gawdamn basketball game broke out. It was a disgusting spoon feeding like I've never seen in the playoffs.

[aGENT]

They're nowhere near as soft as people like to project. For frack sakes, Henrik was absolutely steam-rolled by Brown and returned to give one of the most impressive and dominant performances I've seen in a playoff game, against a team with a beast of a back end.

I honestly don't comprehend how this sentiment even persists...yet it's still there

[youngdad]

Canucks in his tenure >>>> NYR

He had the sedins in their prime (Art Ross, Hart), Kesler in his prime (40g, selke), Edler on top of his game (50+ points), Ehrhoff, good depth on D (just lacked that true #1), and good bottom 6. He also had Luongo

And I suppose he had nothing to do with any of that individual success?

AV's time was up here in Vancouver. Not because he lost the room or he somehow forgot to coach well or because he couldn't make necessary adaptations. No, his time was up because the team needed to go in a different direction. Turns out we took an aging core and chose to go down the Torts hole... But that's a topic for another thread.

Make no mistake, AV is and always will be a fantastic coach. He trusts his best players to lead in the way they know how. He gives them the freedom to make a lot of game play decisions. That's a hard skill and it takes a lot of patience and humility for a head coach (typically type A personalities) to give up that much control.

I have no doubt that the success of many players under AV was due to his style of coaching. Especially the Sedins. Lots of set plays, time outs (when used haha), and game tactics seemed to be run by the Sedins. And boy did it work. What a novel idea! Let the twins, who have some if the brightest hockey minds and best vision run things a bit on the ice.

I don't think Torts gets this. Torts seems to think of himself as a teacher on every little aspect in the game. The Sedins, bless them, tried hard to do what Torts wanted this year. It sort of worked... For about 6 weeks. I wonder if it ever occurred to Torts that maybe, just maybe, the former Hart trophy winner might know more than he does about how to run the offence?

Anyway, the AV ship has sailed and the core is aging. We should be grateful for the years when AV's style matched perfectly with a talented core in its prime. It was without a doubt the most exciting, inspiring, entertaining, and altogether dominant hockey I have ever seen the Canucks or any other team play in the past decade.

Thanks AV.

Summary for rant challenged:

- AV great coach

- Trusted best players. This = individual success for core players

- AVs time was up bc team needed new direction

- Team chose to go down The Torts hole

- Torts can't seem to let star players run things

- AVs style + core in its prime = perfect match

- thx AV

[Honky Cat]

And I suppose he had nothing to do with any of that individual success?

AV's time was probably up here in Vancouver. Not because he lost the room or he somehow forgot to coach well or because he couldn't make necessary adaptations. No, his time was up because the team needed to go in a different direction. Turns out we took an aging core and chose to go down the Torts hole... But that's a topic for another thread.

Make no mistake, AV is and always will be a fantastic coach. He trusts his best players to lead in the way they know how. He gives them the freedom to make a lot of game play decisions. That's a hard skill and it takes a lot of patience and humility for a head coach (typically type A personalities) to give up that much control.

I have no doubt that the success of many players under AV was due to his style of coaching. Especially the Sedins. Lots of set plays, time outs (when used haha), and game tactics seemed to be run by the Sedins. And boy did it work. What a novel idea! Let the twins, who have some if the brightest hockey minds and best vision run things a bit on the ice.

I don't think Torts gets this. Torts seems to think of himself as a teacher on every little aspect in the game. The Sedins, bless them, tried hard to do what Torts wanted this year. It sort of worked... For about 6 weeks. I wonder if it ever occurred to Torts that maybe, just maybe, the former Hart trophy winner might know more than he does about how to run the offence?

Anyway, the AV ship has sailed and the core is aging. We should be grateful for the years when AV's style matched perfectly with a talented core in its prime. It was without a doubt the most exciting, inspiring, entertaining, and altogether dominant hockey I have ever seen the Canucks or any other team play in the past decade.

Thanks AV.

Pretty much this...!

[The Kassassin Train]

Philly figured out how to beat them like with all AV teams...soft n play with no heart but entertaining.

I have been a Philly fan since LOD days so people who think I am hating I am it's simply the truth. We saw it here and we are seeing it now.

[PhillipBlunt]

I don't know if AV failed entirely in refocusing the team after the Game 7 loss.

They won the President's Trophy the following season, but faced a very similar situation to the SCF.

They weren't rewarded whatsoever for their dominant season. They wound up with a first round date with the next SCChampion, this one going on one of the more dominant rolls in SC history.

The Canucks drew LA in the first round and were without Daniel, and once again had a hobbled Kesler. What were their chances of taking out LA with those two guys at a fraction?

Daniel returned for game 4.... they absolutely dominated LA, leading Sutter, when asked what happened, to respond "the Sedins happened." They're nowhere near as soft as people like to project. For frack sakes, Henrik was absolutely steam-rolled by Brown and returned to give one of the most impressive and dominant performances I've seen in a playoff game, against a team with a beast of a back end.

All-in-all, I think the quality of the team is vastly underplayed over those two seasons.

Last year, again, I was pretty impressed with what AV managed through the regular season - and the playoffs - were a fracking joke imo. That SJ series is an embarrassment to zebras everywhere. Playoff standards were entirely turned on their head - in the Boston series, the Canucks had to live with leniency. In the SJ series, a gawdamn basketball game broke out. It was a disgusting spoon feeding like I've never seen in the playoffs.

All good points as usual oldnews. The zebras were an element of the series that affected the outcome most certainly.

[higgyfan]

Philly figured out how to beat them like with all AV teams...soft n play with no heart but entertaining.

I have been a Philly fan since LOD days so people who think I am hating I am it's simply the truth. We saw it here and we are seeing it now.

Ridiculous comment KT. Soft and no heart is:

2009 Lost in 2nd round to Chicago. Philly beaten out in 1st round.

2010 beaten by Chicago (who went to the SCF) in the 2nd round. Philly didn't manage to make the POs.

2011 beating out Chicago, Nashville, San Jose and going to game 7 of the finals. I believe Boston swept Philly in the 2nd round of the same year.

2012 the Canucks only won 1 game against SC champions LA. Philly only won 1 game against NJ who lost to LA 4-2.

2013 swept by SJ. Philly didn't manage to make the POs.

The most regular season and SC game wins of any coach/team in Vancouvers' history, but not good enough for you eh?

All I can say is...give your head a shake, man.

[Riviera82]

Ridiculous comment KT. Soft and no heart is:

2009 Lost in 2nd round to Chicago. Philly beaten out in 1st round.

2010 beaten by Chicago (who went to the SCF) in the 2nd round. Philly didn't manage to make the POs.

2011 beating out Chicago, Nashville, San Jose and going to game 7 of the finals. I believe Boston swept Philly in the 2nd round of the same year.

2012 the Canucks only won 1 game against SC champions LA. Philly only won 1 game against NJ who lost to LA 4-2.

2013 swept by SJ. Philly didn't manage to make the POs.

The most regular season and SC game wins of any coach/team in Vancouvers' history, but not good enough for you eh?

All I can say is...give your head a shake, man.

You make some good points but lets not forget that our Canucks team was an overtime goal away from perhaps the most epic collapse in playoff history in 2011.

It could be said that Burrows saved AV's job twice between 2009 and 2011, first with that shorthanded game winner to end the 9 game losing streak and of course the "dragon slaying" goal a couple years later. I guess Burrows ran out of miracles and the result was AV getting canned.

[aqua59]

He's going to move onto the 2nd round and we're sitting at home. Oh well.

Guess he gets the last laugh at Canucks mgmt.

AV was stale. Right along with management.

[higgyfan]

You make some good points but lets not forget that our Canucks team was an overtime goal away from perhaps the most epic collapse in playoff history in 2011.

It could be said that Burrows saved AV's job twice between 2009 and 2011, first with that shorthanded game winner to end the 9 game losing streak and of course the "dragon slaying" goal a couple years later. I guess Burrows ran out of miracles and the result was AV getting canned.

You make some good points but lets not forget that our Canucks team was an overtime goal away from perhaps the most epic collapse in playoff history in 2011.

It could be said that Burrows saved AV's job twice between 2009 and 2011, first with that shorthanded game winner to end the 9 game losing streak and of course the "dragon slaying" goal a couple years later. I guess Burrows ran out of miracles and the result was AV getting canned.

You make some good points but lets not forget that our Canucks team was an overtime goal away from perhaps the most epic collapse in playoff history in 2011.

It could be said that Burrows saved AV's job twice between 2009 and 2011, first with that shorthanded game winner to end the 9 game losing streak and of course the "dragon slaying" goal a couple years later. I guess Burrows ran out of miracles and the result was AV getting canned.

That's what SC playoffs are all about. That's what makes it exciting. In the end, the Canucks prevailed, despite being 'soft with no heart'.

The most wins for any Canuck coach. Only a younger fan can attempt to diminish this accomplishment. Those of us that sat though the horrible Canuck hockey of yesteryear are grateful for the exciting and highly skilled hockey we got to watch with AV and the current team.

[Neversummer]

Rangers advance ... OP was right, AV not the problem.

[RUPERTKBD]

Philly figured out how to beat them like with all AV teams...soft n play with no heart but entertaining.

I have been a Philly fan since LOD days so people who think I am hating I am it's simply the truth. We saw it here and we are seeing it now.

Didn't look like they had too much "figured out" last night.

The score flattered the Flyers. If not for Mason's stellar play, that game is a blowout.

Speaking of blowouts, I love it when these armchair coaching experts have their theories blown out of the water. I'll bet there are quite a few of them eating crow in the Philly vs. NYR thread right now.....as well they should.