Standing_Tall#37 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 $1.55/litre? Yah, I'll complain. That ain't bad. Everything's proportional, gas was .70/L back when a good wage was 22 or 23/hr. Hopefully we don't pay the $4+/L prices that the European nations do too soon. But it's not really that big of a deal either way. Hakuna Mattatta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 I dont have a problem paying for gas or insurance, what I have a problem with are the sky-high prices of these things. Not so much insurance because I have the highest discount but when the price of fuel jumps 14 cents per liter in a heartbeat but takes weeks to come back down that's when I get pissed off. I live in a place where having a vehicle is necessary. The transit here sucks and it doesn't run during my work hours anyways and I wont be walking or cycling the 9 kms to get there. Not to mention, if your'e not alone in life, if you have a family, carting them around on transit isn't very practical at all. It seems to me that the people who dont have a problem with being gouged either dont drive or have so much money that they dont notice how badly they're being ripped off. The bottom line in my opinion is that insurance and fuel are indeed 2 costs of operating a vehicle, you cannot go without either of them and the prices are unnecessarily high. It's just a money grab typical of BC. I think you just outlined a couple of great points here. 1) Upset about fuel costs in today's world yet still feel the need to drive? Downsize to something more economical, or buy an electric. 2) 9km!? Why can't you ride or walk 9kms to your destination? Do you know how quickly you can ride or walk 9km? 3) If you're not alone in life and you're thinking about starting a family then it's your responsibility to think about these costs of living before having any kids. Granted, maybe it isn't convenient to transit children around to the proper destinations, but not everything in life is convenient. Plus, I see families on the bus all the time, so apparently it can be done. Lots of people in life make sacrifices to deal with the changing world, while others continue to dream of the good ol' days when gas prices and insurance were much cheaper and complain when a decade later their costs have gone up. I used to make less than $20/hr, and paying for a vehicle to get the 10km one way up and down hills was killing me financially. I bought a bike and sold my car. I wasn't thrilled about riding a bike 20kms a day and still not making enough money to get ahead. I quit my job and went back to school. When I'm done and looking for the career that should pay me around 60-80k a year I will probably buy a vehicle again, and yes, I probably won't complain about prices because I will be able to afford it. My point is that rather than complaining about rising prices and doing nothing about my income, I did something about it. The choices are out there for us to make, It just all depends on who is willing to make the necessary sacrifices to remedy their grievances and who isn't. We live in the Western world, not a fairytale land where everything is perfect. I think this might fall under the category of first world problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 A rant. Every time Translink or other groups propose things like a vehicle levy or a new bridge toll I always see comments like "That's so unfair, I already pay for gas and insurance, now you're asking me to pay ANOTHER cost for driving?" I've always found that very funny. Gas and insurance are NOT costs of driving. They are the costs of gas and insurance. Insurance is that thing you buy so that if you accidentally destroy your own car or someone else's or worse, you're not immediately in an irrecoverable financial hole. And the cost of gas is to pay for GAS, that thing that is taken out of the ground usually via great environmental damage, is highly processed and refined, transported by pipeline then by truck to your local gas station and put into a storage tank where it can conveniently come out of a nozzle directly into your car. Simply put, there IS no cost for driving except maybe taxes which we all pay whether or not we drive. On the other hand, if you want to talk about a different kind of cost, the true cost of driving is to our air quality, our healthcare system, the damage being done to our planet to get all that oil out of the ground, etc. I don't mind if drivers (myself included!!) start paying a true additional cost for that, especially if it funds things like transit which gets more people off the roads (to the benefit, ironically, of the drivers who choose to remain). Many of you will disagree with me but even if you do, please… stop complaining about the "high costs of driving." I'll stop complaining when Translink gives me a system I can count on and eliminates the need for me to drive. Currently, they don't. I don't need gas and insurance if I don't drive...so they very much ARE the cost of driving. And when gas prices are out of synch like they are, it's very much a reason to complain. Gouged at every turn. Here's the deal....my new boss worked for Translink and the inside scoop is that it is a fiasco and a huge money waster. So I have problems paying for upgrades when the money isn't being adequately diverted to where it needs to be/go. Why should I pay more because someone isn't doing a good job of budgeting and being responsible in that? Sure, if extra funding is needed, by all means, let's chip in. But I don't know that a little investigation into some of the waste and irresponsible spending wouldn't generate some of that extra money that's constantly being cried out for. To me, it's like people who apply for welfare while wearing bling and owning cars...try to do a little cutting back on some unnecessary expenses before expecting others to foot the bill. The transit funding is a joke. Guess what?...that new compass card that we're waiting for? Glitches that will likely see it delayed yet again...to the tune of $$$$$$$$$. Turnstiles wouldhave eliminated the fare evaders - so that was a complete disaster. Transit police do little but get paid far more than what they're worth. Etc. Try to get competent people running the show and earning the big bucks...currently, there are about 10 managers for every task. It's a system in dire need of attention and I don't want to fund a gong show. But keep complaining about complainers because that's fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-SN- Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 Amen Deb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Vancouver Connection Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 again, i'm going to ask. what the hell is the point of this thread? this columbo guy hasn't a clue of basic economics so why even bother discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhas Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 A rant. Every time Translink or other groups propose things like a vehicle levy or a new bridge toll I always see comments like "That's so unfair, I already pay for gas and insurance, now you're asking me to pay ANOTHER cost for driving?" I've always found that very funny. Gas and insurance are NOT costs of driving. They are the costs of gas and insurance. Insurance is that thing you buy so that if you accidentally destroy your own car or someone else's or worse, you're not immediately in an irrecoverable financial hole. And the cost of gas is to pay for GAS, that thing that is taken out of the ground usually via great environmental damage, is highly processed and refined, transported by pipeline then by truck to your local gas station and put into a storage tank where it can conveniently come out of a nozzle directly into your car. Simply put, there IS no cost for driving except maybe taxes which we all pay whether or not we drive. On the other hand, if you want to talk about a different kind of cost, the true cost of driving is to our air quality, our healthcare system, the damage being done to our planet to get all that oil out of the ground, etc. I don't mind if drivers (myself included!!) start paying a true additional cost for that, especially if it funds things like transit which gets more people off the roads (to the benefit, ironically, of the drivers who choose to remain). Many of you will disagree with me but even if you do, please… stop complaining about the "high costs of driving." That's a nice rant and all, and I'll let you keep going with it. Let's not let something like facts get in our way. Oh, speaking of facts: Roughly 50% of current pump fuel prices in the GVRD are some form of taxation - that is the cost of driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 A lot of misinformation here from both sides. Have a read here: http://www.vtpi.org/tdm/index.php Specifically these pages: http://www.vtpi.org/tdm/tdm82.htm http://www.vtpi.org/tdm/tdm66.htm http://www.vtpi.org/tdm/tdm96.htm Edumacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.DirtyDangles Posted June 21, 2014 Share Posted June 21, 2014 The problem isn't the "cost of gas". The problem is the cost of gas PLUS a bunch of taxes on top of it. The problem is the fact that Vancouver drivers pay the highest gas prices plus the taxes on top of it. Now Translink also keeps bumping up prices while carelessly spending stupid amount of that money on failed projects like the gates at skytrains stations that haven't been used for 2 years. I don't mind the high cost of driving if the cost is justified. Now if the gas prices gets bumped to $2/litre due to a bunch of taxes while other cities in North America paid half of that amount, would you still not complain? My cousin in Van said this to me nearly word for word over the phone the other day. Excellent points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I think you just outlined a couple of great points here. 1) Upset about fuel costs in today's world yet still feel the need to drive? Downsize to something more economical, or buy an electric. 2) 9km!? Why can't you ride or walk 9kms to your destination? Do you know how quickly you can ride or walk 9km? 3) If you're not alone in life and you're thinking about starting a family then it's your responsibility to think about these costs of living before having any kids. Granted, maybe it isn't convenient to transit children around to the proper destinations, but not everything in life is convenient. Plus, I see families on the bus all the time, so apparently it can be done. Lots of people in life make sacrifices to deal with the changing world, while others continue to dream of the good ol' days when gas prices and insurance were much cheaper and complain when a decade later their costs have gone up. I used to make less than $20/hr, and paying for a vehicle to get the 10km one way up and down hills was killing me financially. I bought a bike and sold my car. I wasn't thrilled about riding a bike 20kms a day and still not making enough money to get ahead. I quit my job and went back to school. When I'm done and looking for the career that should pay me around 60-80k a year I will probably buy a vehicle again, and yes, I probably won't complain about prices because I will be able to afford it. My point is that rather than complaining about rising prices and doing nothing about my income, I did something about it. The choices are out there for us to make, It just all depends on who is willing to make the necessary sacrifices to remedy their grievances and who isn't. We live in the Western world, not a fairytale land where everything is perfect. I think this might fall under the category of first world problems? I dont have time to respond to all of this in great detail but for a variety of reasons I need to drive a car. I will complain about the costs associated with that until they stop being unreasonably high, it's highway robbery and nobody should have to reorganize their whole life because something for them which is a necessity keeps getting more overpriced than it needs to be. It's nothing more than gouging and it's unfair. Your solution seems to be make more money to offset the cost of being ripped off, or just turn your whole life around. Now there's a fairy tale. Not everybody can just quit their job and go back to school and still make ends meet. For some people life is quite difficult and I for one have more than just myself to look after, having an extra first world problem like gas prices piled on top of everything else isn't something I'll ever just happily accept. Nobody really should because it isn't necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsedin33 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Actually it does cost you, to operate the pedals and controls consumes calories , to get calories you need food and food costs money. So there, suck on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 I'll stop complaining when Translink gives me a system I can count on and eliminates the need for me to drive. Currently, they don't. I don't need gas and insurance if I don't drive...so they very much ARE the cost of driving. And when gas prices are out of synch like they are, it's very much a reason to complain. Gouged at every turn. Here's the deal....my new boss worked for Translink and the inside scoop is that it is a fiasco and a huge money waster. So I have problems paying for upgrades when the money isn't being adequately diverted to where it needs to be/go. Why should I pay more because someone isn't doing a good job of budgeting and being responsible in that? Sure, if extra funding is needed, by all means, let's chip in. But I don't know that a little investigation into some of the waste and irresponsible spending wouldn't generate some of that extra money that's constantly being cried out for. To me, it's like people who apply for welfare while wearing bling and owning cars...try to do a little cutting back on some unnecessary expenses before expecting others to foot the bill. The transit funding is a joke. Guess what?...that new compass card that we're waiting for? Glitches that will likely see it delayed yet again...to the tune of $$$$$$$$$. Turnstiles wouldhave eliminated the fare evaders - so that was a complete disaster. Transit police do little but get paid far more than what they're worth. Etc. Try to get competent people running the show and earning the big bucks...currently, there are about 10 managers for every task. It's a system in dire need of attention and I don't want to fund a gong show. But keep complaining about complainers because that's fair. Agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offensive Threat Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 This is a stupid comment. A good kid will separate themselves from the bad. School ratings only mean so much...it's up to the kid to decide who they want to associate with. Parenting plays a role too but it's mostly up to the kid. Good kids come from all schools, same with the bad. North Surrey schools have a poor reputation but many schools above HWY 10 are also recognize are desired. South Surrey schools are usually seen to be above all but Earl Marriott and Elgin have lots of "gangsters" too. Same goes for all school districts. Point is a good child can be raised in any neighbourhood and school. Your calling my comment stupid? I was stating facts. Your stating what sounds like excuses for putting your kids in crapty schools. According to your statement it doesnt matter what type of learning environment a kids goes into, they will always come out the same. Very odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion Phaneuf Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Your calling my comment stupid? I was stating facts. Your stating what sounds like excuses for putting your kids in crapty schools. According to your statement it doesnt matter what type of learning environment a kids goes into, they will always come out the same. Very odd. You misread my post or didn't understand the message. I didn't say they come out the same, I said a good child can be raised anywhere. LOL I don't have kids. When I do have children they will be going to Southridge (if that means anything to you plus it's close by). Ratings are basically grade performance. Just make sure that the school you choose has lots of programs and clubs if you want them to explore in high school. Smaller class sizes help too and even a newer or renovated facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 There is a lot more to "driving" than just gas and insurance. In fact that is the most basic costs that you can't avoid. Routine Maintenance (Spark plugs, tires, oil, light bulbs, shocks, struts, filters, coolant). Cost of the vehicle Distance driven each year (The more km's the more wear and tear) Other costs like cleaning as well (Car washes, soap, armor all, fuzzy dice, air fresheners) Even my motorcycle needs a tune up and quick once over by a mechanic every so often. With my motorcycle there is wear and tear on riding gear, boots, jacket, pants. Helmets should be replaced every 5 years (at least according to the manufacturers). These costs do not include breakdowns like mufflers, replacing brake pads, heater cores, cv joints, fuel systems, batteries, I feel though it's far easier to get people using transit if it becomes more efficient, reliable, and convenient. Maybe what we should be doing is having jobs that have lots of affordable housing nearby, with parks, recreation, and shops so that people don't need to be in their cars. The other issue I find is why is everything shipped by Trucks? Can we just use more rail for cargo. Have it at a warehouse/roundhouse district. Then smaller trucks deliver to each store? Why are we reliant on 18 wheelers to handle all our freight? Those vehicles are heavy, they do more wear on the roads and highways. Our transportation systems need a complete re-think. But this is probably the reality: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobble Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Uh, I don't really understand the argument in this thread, but I would argue that gas, insurance, parking, etc. are all costs of driving.They aren't the cost of owning a car, but they are if you actually want to drive it. Without paying for fuel, insurance and potentially a place to leave it, all you'd have is a nice big paper-weight sitting in your driveway.Due to high costs of gas and parking at universities/downtown, I've started just buying a monthly bus pass and busing into town. I lose a little of the convenience (depending on the time of day, I may have to wait 20min or more for a bus), but I believe I save enough money to compensate. My gas tank now lasts me nearly 3+ weeks as I just need to drive to the Sobeys near my home to park and catch the bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Those who drive bear a lot of costs associated with driving. They pay for their cars, registration, taxation, insurance, fuel, and so much more. Hidden in the price of fuel are taxes used to fund public transportation, and highway infrastructure. Those who drive also pay taxation to drive. They pay taxes when a vehicle is purchased and in every litre of fuel they use. Further, you need infrastructure to move goods. Last time I checked bananas do not grow in BC. You need ships to bring in the bananas, and trucks to deliver it. You need roads for that. Everyone benefits from transportation--that is why everyone pays something into it, and that is why government builds roads. Those who drive pay more into it than the person who rides Translink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 That's a nice rant and all, and I'll let you keep going with it. Let's not let something like facts get in our way. Oh, speaking of facts: Roughly 50% of current pump fuel prices in the GVRD are some form of taxation - that is the cost of driving. Those who drive pay the taxation. Government does not pay taxation on its fuel. Those who ride Translink do not pay for the roads they are using through fuel taxation. They only pay indirectly for it through the price of goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 That ain't bad. Everything's proportional, gas was .70/L back when a good wage was 22 or 23/hr. Hopefully we don't pay the $4+/L prices that the European nations do too soon. But it's not really that big of a deal either way. Hakuna Mattatta. Just paid 3.20 a gallon here in Texas. Last month I paid 2.45 a gallon. At 3.8 litres per gallon, we paid 84-cents and 65-cents last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 A rant. Every time Translink or other groups propose things like a vehicle levy or a new bridge toll I always see comments like "That's so unfair, I already pay for gas and insurance, now you're asking me to pay ANOTHER cost for driving?" I've always found that very funny. Gas and insurance are NOT costs of driving. They are the costs of gas and insurance. Insurance is that thing you buy so that if you accidentally destroy your own car or someone else's or worse, you're not immediately in an irrecoverable financial hole. And the cost of gas is to pay for GAS, that thing that is taken out of the ground usually via great environmental damage, is highly processed and refined, transported by pipeline then by truck to your local gas station and put into a storage tank where it can conveniently come out of a nozzle directly into your car. Simply put, there IS no cost for driving except maybe taxes which we all pay whether or not we drive. On the other hand, if you want to talk about a different kind of cost, the true cost of driving is to our air quality, our healthcare system, the damage being done to our planet to get all that oil out of the ground, etc. I don't mind if drivers (myself included!!) start paying a true additional cost for that, especially if it funds things like transit which gets more people off the roads (to the benefit, ironically, of the drivers who choose to remain). Many of you will disagree with me but even if you do, please… stop complaining about the "high costs of driving." Disregarding the dubious logic that gas and insurance aren't "costs of driving", I'd like to point out that gasoline is one of the higher taxed/levied items people have the pleasure of paying for. You also seem to disregard maintenance, parking etc which all produce tax dollars to help support infrastructure we ALL use. I'm all for changing our transportation network for the better but let's not start the revolution based on a foundation of horse@#$%. The biggest problem that needs to be tackled IMO is the transportation "chicken and egg" problem. People want better transit but too many people see a bloated, wasteful system that's currently of no or little use to them. Nobody's paying even more of our already high taxes for a system they see no personal benefits in. Unfortunately, a system that benefits more people is unlikely to be built without more funding from those people. You find the solution to that and we all win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VMR Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Unless people drive regularly (Commuters) this should not even be a topic. The gas you say that comes from ground is taxed on taxed to pay for buses and the precious bike lanes 5 - 10 people use. What would be fair, people who bike on roads getting a license and insurance and obeying traffic laws my gas..... sorry taxed plus tax gas pays for. If you use the roads you should pay for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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