Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Odd.]

43 minutes ago, Alflives said:

These three all showed elite skill early on, as evidenced by their point totals.  Jake had a 20 game run last Jan/Feb where he showed he can dominate.  Hopefully he gets fit enough to be consistent that way.

Sedins, Naslund, Bertuzzi, when you first saw these players young nobody would have ever thought they would go on to become 100 point players and become superstars. People would say yes they're good and skilled, but not that good to the point where they become superstars, or 100 point players that is. That's the point he was trying to make. Too early to judge players at 20. Now not saying Virtanen's gonna be putting up 100 points a season but if he does become anywhere close to his potential, surely you can't be mad at that pick. 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2017 by Odd.

[Toews]

This was a post made on HF about Virtanen from the poster "Bad Goalie" who watches the Comets regularly. Do not read if it is going to affect your sensitivities as he/she doesn't sugarcoat anything.

 

Quote

Technically, if you add his 10 games in the 2015 AHL playoffs and 2 GP last season to the 19 this year, he totals 8 points in 31 AHL GP. He has looked as clueless in every one of them.

I have stated repeatedly that Jake's development course was not the right one. He should have done Jrs last season and the AHL this year and had no sniff of the NHL yet other than preseason camps. If his greatness was showing, he should've have had the fan base drooling by now for his addition to the team next year along with the arrival of Boeser and his team mate in Utica, McCann. However, that's a whole other discussion.

His demotion this season was warranted, but the tool box hasn't revealed much in Utica. His speed is only seen on an occasional shift. His shot only once or twice a game and from too far out. He does not hit like the dump truck mentioned a few posts back. His hitting has barely been what you would call hitting. It's more bump and run. He coasts all over the place and hangs out on the periphery of all the action. It's like he thinks the puck will be acquired by others and then delivered to him.

He has to cover the points, but approaches the point man like he's skating on mica thick ice and it will break if he pushes too hard and thus never gets to the point and never blocks the shot. Even his attempts at interfering with passes in the neutral zone are ill completed half assed reaching dangles with his stick on a coasting half circle somewhat in the direction the pass might go. He never touches the puck in these efforts. I don't think he has broken up or intercepted a single pass.

He does muck along the half boards in his own end. I wouldn't strongly define it as battling, but he holds his own there. At least he doesn't blind backhand the puck into the field of play to be intercepted and become scoring chances like Gaunce used to do and Grenier still does several times a game.

Speaking of Grenier, I do so wish I could report having seen this high NHL level hockey IQ I'm reading about here this morning, but I have seen little evidence of it from Jake's play. Right now he is rivaling Grenier for the bottom of the list of Utica players and that's not good. I mean that's really not good. It's the #1 reason a player with all the natural tools of an NHL player remains mired in the AHL.

I will say that the so called feeling of entitlement has not been evident here. I think what many are calling his lack of humility is his lack of IQ. He's been a hockey player all his life, not a top notch academic. He isn't skilled in public speaking and doesn't understand the concept of giving the right answer and keeping what you really think to yourself. He's a kid who wants to be an NHL player and I don't really think he knows just how that will happen. He's stated here that he has lots to learn. I firmly agree. I, for one, hope it works out for him.

As a huge fan of a minor league team, I wish every one of these kid's achieves their dream, but also realize most of them won't and the reasons are as numerable as the number who fail. I hope Jake figures it out, but it won't happen overnight. This isn't going to be a 30-day refresher course and then a retake of the exam. I think he is the kind of player who can be lost due to mismanagement. BO was the type who could fight through the brasses BS. Jake wasn't. What it will take for him to catch up will be a tough climb. I will continue to factually describe his progress or lack of it, but realize I'm in his corner, even if it at times it may not sound it.

 

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=126221881&postcount=65

[ice orca]

1 hour ago, Toews said:

This was a post made on HF about Virtanen from the poster "Bad Goalie" who watches the Comets regularly. Do not read if it is going to affect your sensitivities as he/she doesn't sugarcoat anything.

 

 

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=126221881&postcount=65

Sounds like he is just going through the motions figuring he will get called back up soon. He keeps up that kind of play Green will have him riding pine and get raked across the coals for doing it.

[Phat Fingers]

14 hours ago, Alflives said:

Skille was drafted top 10 too.  He's in his draft + 11 year.  Guys who are going to be difference makers show signs pretty quick.

 

So Bertuzzi had it all figured out?  Naslund put it all together in Pitsburg with Jagr and Lemieux?  

 

Blanket statements are often wrong and make the poster look close minded or certain about the future. 

 

If Jake doesn't put it together by the end of next year, then I would be willing to say 'career third liner.'  

 

Utica is on a nine game losing streak and lacks playmakers. Everyone on that team, save Subban is not producing. 

[Phat Fingers]

15 hours ago, Alflives said:

Skille was drafted top 10 too.  He's in his draft + 11 year.  Guys who are going to be difference makers show signs pretty quick.

 

So Bertuzzi had it all figured out?  Naslund put it all together in Pitsburg with Jagr and Lemieux?  

 

Blanket statements are often wrong and make the poster look close minded or certain about the future. 

 

If Jake doesn't put it together by the end of next year, then I would be willing to say 'career third liner.'  

 

Utica is on a nine game losing streak and lacks playmakers. Everyone on that team, save Subban is not producing. 

[Phat Fingers]

11 minutes ago, ice orca said:

Sounds like he is just going through the motions figuring he will get called back up soon. He keeps up that kind of play Green will have him riding pine and get raked across the coals for doing it.

 

I occasionally slum on HF boards, but it is a toxic sespool of haters. Our trolls are timid and reasonable compared to what exisists there. I have read posts from Bad Goalie before and don't find them revealing or insightful.  He/she sounds like a bitter hater of most things Canucks from my POV.   Bad Goalie is not a source I would depend on for player evaluations. IMO

[ice orca]

19 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

 

I occasionally slum on HF boards, but it is a toxic sespool of haters. Our trolls are timid and reasonable compared to what exisists there. I have read posts from Bad Goalie before and don't find them revealing or insightful.  He/she sounds like a bitter hater of most things Canucks from my POV.   Bad Goalie is not a source I would depend on for player evaluations. IMO

Well i don't slum on there but who do you go to to get the right info on Virtanen? is it a hater as you say or a homer who only sees some tidbits on a game forum?

[vancan2233]

1 hour ago, Toews said:

This was a post made on HF about Virtanen from the poster "Bad Goalie" who watches the Comets regularly. Do not read if it is going to affect your sensitivities as he/she doesn't sugarcoat anything.

 

 

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showpost.php?p=126221881&postcount=65

Why would you post a post made by a clueless fan. Go and watch the game yourself and then post your opinion and do not take the word of someone who has the name " Bad Goalie". Is this fan actually watching Virtanen as a scout and only his play I think not. Fans do not know how or what to look for when scouting.

[ShakyWalton]

1 hour ago, ice orca said:

Sounds like he is just going through the motions figuring he will get called back up soon. He keeps up that kind of play Green will have him riding pine and get raked across the coals for doing it.

I think he would probably be riding the pine now if it was up to Green..but he is a top 10 pick and the Canucks want him to play...he has been almost invisible in 90% of the games he has played in the AHL from most reports...not a great sign.

 

Granted he is only 20 but there are 18 year olds playing in the NHL and showing well....I have a feeling if he doesnt show something soon he could be thrown in on a trade..but this is coming from just me..I havent see/heard many Comet games this year.

Edited January 1, 2017 by ShakyWalton

[Toews]

58 minutes ago, vancan2233 said:

Why would you post a post made by a clueless fan. Go and watch the game yourself and then post your opinion and do not take the word of someone who has the name " Bad Goalie". Is this fan actually watching Virtanen as a scout and only his play I think not. Fans do not know how or what to look for when scouting.

I don't know about you but I come to this thread to read about Jake's play. Whether he is improving or not? What his strengths are? What is his effort level like on a nightly basis? What does he still need to work on? What I don't come here to read about is whether Horvat is better than Linden or whether the Canucks made the right pick or not. The reason why I decided to make that post is because it actually addressed everything that I was looking for.

 

I find your last statement to be quite awful. It makes me wonder why you are even here if you don't respect the opinions of fans who take the time to watch the games and post their opinions. There are some intelligent posters on CDC who do take the time to sit down, watch the games and post informed opinions. There are many posters on CDC whose opinion I take seriously because they have displayed knowledge of the game. I am still a young fan myself so I still consider myself to be learning the ropes. There are posters here though who have watched the game for decades. You do them a disservice by disregarding their years of dedication as fans and students of the game.

 

1 hour ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

 

I occasionally slum on HF boards, but it is a toxic sespool of haters. Our trolls are timid and reasonable compared to what exisists there. I have read posts from Bad Goalie before and don't find them revealing or insightful.  He/she sounds like a bitter hater of most things Canucks from my POV.   Bad Goalie is not a source I would depend on for player evaluations. IMO

I respect your opinion and I do agree with you that HF is a cesspool of hate right now. The Canucks fans over there also seem to think of themselves as superior to the average fan. There is a hive mentality there where if your opinion doesn't support the consensus then you are likely to be pilled on. I don't know if I agree with you calling them trolls though. The purpose of trolling is to incite, the fans on HF are definitely still fans, they are just snooty and over the top. But that is just my perspective.

 

The reason why I copied that post was so that we could actually have a discussion on Jake's play. Maybe those that regularly watch the Comets can find something in that post that they can dispute. I cannot put my stamp of approval or disapproval on that post because I haven't watched Jake play which is why I am relying on posters on CDC to dispute or validate the statements made in that post.

 

@UticaHockey Maybe you can expose yourself to the firing squad and give us your honest opinion on Jake? I don't want to put you on the spot, so disregard this if you want.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Toews

[Toews]

49 minutes ago, ShakyWalton said:

I think he would probably be riding the pine now if it was up to Green..but he is a top 10 pick and the Canucks want him to play...he has been almost invisible in 90% of the games he has played in the AHL from most reports...not a great sign.

 

Granted he is only 20 but there are 18 year olds playing in the NHL and showing well....I have a feeling if he doesnt show something soon he could be thrown in on a trade..but this is coming from just me..I havent see/heard many Comet games this year.

Sometimes I feel like the Canucks haven't done as much as they could have for Utica. I know there is a serious lack of prospects at that level so there is only so much you can do but I feel like the farm system is an integral part of the organization. The roster down in Utica is unimpressive to say the least which is why I wish the Canucks had signed a few more skilled AHL vets to 1 year one way contracts. These vets help keep the team competitive so that a player like Jake has some decent talent to play with down there. You end up stretching the budget a little which I am not sure the ownership would be happy with but hopefully once the farm system actually starts to receive some picks from the recent few drafts we will get to see some of those moves. I am looking at whats happening in Tampa and they have a talent laden system and it almost seems like anyone they send down comes back improved and hungry. I believe that when you are developing kids at the farm level, having talented players around other talented players can help their development.

[Canucks Curse]

2 minutes ago, Toews said:

Sometimes I feel like the Canucks haven't done as much as they could have for Utica. I know there is a serious lack of prospects at that level so there is only so much you can do but I feel like the farm system is an integral part of the organization. The roster down in Utica is unimpressive to say the least which is why I wish the Canucks had signed a few more skilled AHL vets to 1 year one way contracts. These vets help keep the team competitive so that a player like Jake has some decent talent to play with down there. You end up stretching the budget a little which I am not sure the ownership would be happy with but hopefully once the farm system actually starts to receive some picks from the recent few drafts we will get to see some of those moves. I am looking at whats happening in Tampa and they have a talent laden system and it almost seems like anyone they send down comes back improved and hungry. I believe that when you are developing kids at the farm level, having talented players around other talented players can help their development.

Next year, Boesser, Olsen, Brisebois, Jasek, Zhukenov, and Neil could all join the Comets, hopefully that gives them a boost and the 1-2 years after that Juolevi, Lockwood and Gaudette, so  this is probably the last year they will be hurting for canucks prospects/bodies.

[Westcoasting]

23 hours ago, drummerboy said:

Nope they didn't.  It was never a rumour. 

I've read nothing but garbage from you since I started noticing you on here.  

You have now joined Alf in the elite ranks of posters who I have blocked.  

Bye!

 

Lol this has to be the funniest thing I've seen, someone claims a rumor or "cdc hogwash" that no trade was ever mentioned and when you tell them it did they freak out and block you! Hahaha unreal!

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

Next year, Boesser, Olsen, Brisebois, Jasek, Zhukenov, and Neil could all join the Comets, hopefully that gives them a boost and the 1-2 years after that Juolevi, Lockwood and Gaudette, so  this is probably the last year they will be hurting for canucks prospects/bodies.

We are going to need young forwards on the Canucks, aren't we?

[Westcoasting]

20 hours ago, gurn said:

Thanks- imagine how much easier this would have been if those that made the assertion of media saying this, had actually linked to this.

It was pretty easy to google "Lebrun horvat for drouin" I apologize but I was on the road at the time and my wife's driving was more concerning than trying to figure out how to copy and paste on my phone.

[ShakyWalton]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We are going to need young forwards on the Canucks, aren't we?

with WD behind the bench...don't count on it...he will probably push for Megna and Chaput to be resigned.

[UticaHockey]

31 minutes ago, Toews said:

I don't know about you but I come to this thread to read about Jake's play. Whether he is improving or not? What his strengths are? What is his effort level like on a nightly basis? What does he still need to work on? What I don't come here to read about is whether Horvat is better than Linden or whether the Canucks made the right pick or not. The reason why I decided to make that post is because it actually addressed everything that I was looking for.

 

I find your last statement to be quite awful. It makes me wonder why you are even here if you don't respect the opinions of fans who take the time to watch the games and post their opinions. There are some intelligent posters on CDC who do take the time to sit down, watch the games and post informed opinions. There are many posters on CDC whose opinion I take seriously because they have displayed knowledge of the game. I am still a young fan myself so I still consider myself to be learning the ropes. There are posters here though who have watched the game for decades. You do them a disservice by disregarding their years of dedication as fans and students of the game.

 

I respect your opinion and I do agree with you that HF is a cesspool of hate right now. The Canucks fans over there also seem to think of themselves as superior to the average fan. There is a hive mentality there where if your opinion doesn't support the consensus then you are likely to be pilled on. I don't know if I agree with you calling them trolls though. The purpose of trolling is to incite, the fans on HF are definitely still fans, they are just snooty and over the top. But that is just my perspective.

 

The reason why I copied that post was so that we could actually have a discussion on Jake's play. Maybe those that regularly watch the Comets can find something in that post that they can dispute. I cannot put my stamp of approval or disapproval on that post because I haven't watched Jake play which is why I am relying on posters on CDC to dispute or validate the statements made in that post.

 

@UticaHockey Maybe you can expose yourself to the firing squad and give us your honest opinion on Jake? I don't want to put you on the spot, so disregard this if you want.

I saw some improvement in Jake's play after the first two weeks here but that improvement has not continued. The quote from Bad Goalie on HF I agree with 100% and is hard to add anything to. Jake just kind of floats around waiting for the play to come to him. Right now I wish Vancouver would call him up and give the Comets back someone else.  But that wouldn't be the right thing to do for his development. I'm just looking at it from a selfish point of view.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, ShakyWalton said:

with WD behind the bench...don't count on it...he will probably push for Megna and Chaput to be resigned.

And Skille.  He will only be 30. 

[Canucks Curse]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We are going to need young forwards on the Canucks, aren't we?

Aside from Boeser and Virtanen which ones look ready?

 

[vancan2233]

2 minutes ago, Toews said:

I don't know about you but I come to this thread to read about Jake's play. Whether he is improving or not? What his strengths are? What is his effort level like on a nightly basis? What does he still need to work on? What I don't come here to read about is whether Horvat is better than Linden or whether the Canucks made the right pick or not. The reason why I decided to make that post is because it actually addressed everything that I was looking for.

 

I find your last statement to be quite awful. It makes me wonder why you are even here if you don't respect the opinions of fans who take the time to watch the games and post their opinions. There are some intelligent posters on CDC who do take the time to sit down, watch the games and post informed opinions. There are many posters on CDC whose opinion I take seriously because they have displayed knowledge of the game. I am still a young fan myself so I still consider myself to be learning the ropes. There are posters here though who have watched the game for decades. You do them a disservice by disregarding their years of dedication as fans and students of the game.

 

I respect your opinion and I do agree with you that HF is a cesspool of hate right now. The Canucks fans over there also seem to think of themselves as superior to the average fan. There is a hive mentality there where if your opinion doesn't support the consensus then you are likely to be pilled on. I don't know if I agree with you calling them trolls though. The purpose of trolling is to incite, the fans on HF are definitely still fans, they are just snooty and over the top. But that is just my perspective.

 

The reason why I copied that post was so that we could actually have a discussion on Jake's play. Maybe those that regularly watch the Comets can find something in that post that they can dispute. I cannot put my stamp of approval or disapproval on that post because I haven't watched Jake play which is why I am relying on posters on CDC to dispute or validate the statements made in that post.

 

@UticaHockey Maybe you can expose yourself to the firing squad and give us your honest opinion on Jake? I don't want to put you on the spot, so disregard this if you want.

Then take this advise my young fan if you what to learn the game volunteer your time to help a coach out at a practice. Take the time to go to games and in between periods ask questions. You will find that their are only a few who actual know what their talking about. As soon as you hear the coach should do this!, this player sucks! walk away and start the questions with someone else.  The poster you quoted seems to me, to be the one you walk away from. A knowledgeable poster, with a post that long would have writing some good about a young player developing. Not just his negative bias opinion on what he thinks he is seeing.

Here another piece of advice very few fans are actually students of the game. Most love the game, but few understand the game within the game. They like goals, big hits and fights( who does not) but the true student see the little plays to be just as important. What "Bad Goalie" seems to have total lacking in his post is the little things Jake is starting to learn, like not going out of his way to make the big hit.

I know the kid is not developing at the pace people want and this is the problem, because when he has make mistakes people over react.