messier's_elbow Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 And that's precisely it. The Canucks need bigger bodies right now and the future. Some players are better suited to specific lineups. We've seen this time and time again. A guy plays really well on one team and system. He then gets traded and loses it because he's not in a position to succeed. Ehlers, while he would have done well in Vancouver, would have entered a team that doesn't throw their weight around currently and gets outhit constantly. If both of them hit their projected ceilings, Ehlers will get more points, but Virtanen will be able to play a more physical game; something the Canucks will desperately need. The Jets don't have a guy like Ehlers in their lineup right now. Ladd, Wheeler, Lowry, Trouba, Buff (if kept), Stafford (Jets trying to re-sign him), even Scheifele this year, and Thorburn all throw their bodies around and play hard. Perfect for Ehlers to succeed. But had the Canucks chosen him, he would have found it very difficult to succeed and be protected. Both Vancouver and the Jets got the players they needed.Ehlers may very well turn into a really good player but we already have Bartchi and got him at a decent price. If Virtanen can play like a bully in the AHL at 18 And translate that to the NHL he will be invaluable. Those kinds of guys are as hard to get as 1-2 dmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) Right, the problem was that the Jets did not have enough roster spots available to include him, just like Petan and Morrissey. The understanding is that Petan will slot in on the third line, being protected by Adam Lowry, and Ehlers will start out on the second line. Frolik and Tlusty aren't returning, so that leaves open spots on the wing. As for Morrissey, he's likely to have one year with the Moose. Unless they sort out the Byfuglien scenario prior to the start of the season, then he'll start the season with the Jets.Damn, I'm pissed the Canucks couldn't pick Virtanen and Ehlers. Loved them both. Jets look really good going forward imo Edited May 29, 2015 by Jiggs50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 So we're back to not worrying about his PPG in the WHL and on the verge of proclaiming him a bust, and instead proclaiming him as the next top 6 star for the team? Just wondering because I haven't checked my calendar of bi polar fan bases on prospect watch this week Horvat was receiving the same criticism during the World Juniors and his final OHL playoff performance. Flip flopper nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyLow_ Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) It never looks like he puts much effort into his hits either......players just seem to bounce off of him. The one the other day ?? where the other player lined him up and then just bounced off of him.....Jake barely budged....that was fun to watch. Well in fairness it was a huge dive on pulkinnen, who probably is hating life right now. Edited May 29, 2015 by FlyLow_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Horvat was receiving the same criticism during the World Juniors and his final OHL playoff performance. Flip flopper nation. Yeah the shoulda picked the russian was getting unbearable around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedCanuck Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Another hit http://gfycat.com/CanineNippyIrrawaddydolphin And another https://streamable.com/wcg6 Thanks bud. Really appreciate all the gifs you give us! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorvat Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) U may as well slot Baertschi and Virtanen into our next years lineup. Its basically gaurenteed. Sedin Sedin Burrows Baertschi Bonino VrbataVirtanen Horvat Kassian cant wait Dorsett Vey Hansen Higgins or Hansen will be traded. If hansen higgins would take dorsetts spot and dorsett would move to the RW Edited May 29, 2015 by Scorvat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I don't disagree that Virtanen is the best fit for Vancouver out of him or Ehlers, but you have to give the Danish kid some credit. Ehlers had the best point per game of any player in the regular season in the Q, and lead the league's playoff scoring despite playing about a series less than most other scoring leaders. The kid is special and he's going to be a first line player on most NHL teams, but the Canucks obviously wanted someone who may not produce as much offence, but can play with grit, and that's Virtanen. That's fine, but let's see what he does in the pros. In the couple games I saw of him in the WJC, he looked like Vrbata against Calgary -- a frightened kitten, and one that fell to the ice anytime someone got close to him. Even the fans were groaning. He'll have far less space in the AHL and NHL to dance around, like Shinkaruk and others have found out, so he'll have to adjust his game. As you can see though, Benning making a trade for Baertschi was one to address this team's lack of skill up front, especially on wing. He knows that we don't have that top-end talent at forward, with a bunch of good two-way forwards, and getting Baertschi fixed that. Alternatively we could have drafted Ehlers (or Nylander for that matter) and traded the 2nd round pick for a tougher forward around the league somewhere. There's no wrong answer to building a team, Benning just decided to draft tough and trade for skill. Probably the right call considering that it's far easier trading for a purely skilled guy than prying a team's tough potential top-6 forward off their hands. Fine, but who's going to trade you a big tough forward with skill for a second round pick? Players like Ehlers, Nylander, Shinkaruk, and Baertschi are far easier to come across and acquire than a Virtanen, Kreider, or Kane. Unless Ehlers projects to be a sure-fire PPG first-line player in the NHL, such are not comparable value-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I've always maintained that his game is better suited for a pro game. Some people were ripping my head off because of that statement, but who's laughing now..... That's just a straight-shooter with NHL written all over him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblix Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I don't disagree that Virtanen is the best fit for Vancouver out of him or Ehlers, but you have to give the Danish kid some credit. Ehlers had the best point per game of any player in the regular season in the Q, and lead the league's playoff scoring despite playing about a series less than most other scoring leaders. The kid is special and he's going to be a first line player on most NHL teams, but the Canucks obviously wanted someone who may not produce as much offence, but can play with grit, and that's Virtanen. As you can see though, Benning making a trade for Baertschi was one to address this team's lack of skill up front, especially on wing. He knows that we don't have that top-end talent at forward, with a bunch of good two-way forwards, and getting Baertschi fixed that. Alternatively we could have drafted Ehlers (or Nylander for that matter) and traded the 2nd round pick for a tougher forward around the league somewhere. There's no wrong answer to building a team, Benning just decided to draft tough and trade for skill. Probably the right call considering that it's far easier trading for a purely skilled guy than prying a team's tough potential top-6 forward off their hands. I'm not a huge fan of the point totals of the OHL and QMJHL leagues, it just seems that WHL is harder to score in general. But we've seen undersized dynamic forwards work in the NHL, however I think the smaller the player the greater their drive needs to be. Shinkaruk is small but he's a spitfire bulldog on the ice, you can see how hard he plays along the boards and that is where you need to excel in when you play in the Western Conference. I value character more than straight up skill and there's a lot more that a prospect has to do than just put up points in Junior's to prove to me that he is going to be good in the NHL. An example I'd bring up is Cassels, he's playing with heart and always seems to elevate his play when the team needs it most. **Note: I'm not trying to knock Ehlers, I've seen clips here and there but never actually seen him play shift by shift basis so I'm not really sure how "gritty" or how determined he is on the ice. Points are good stats to look at but are not stats that will guarantee a player to be able to make the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 U may as well slot Baertschi and Virtanen into our next years lineup. Its basically gaurenteed. Sedin Sedin Burrows Baertschi Bonino Vrbata Virtanen Horvat Kassian Dorsett Vey Hansen Higgins or Hansen will be traded. If hansen higgins would take dorsetts spot and dorsett would move to the RW i think that lineup is on the right track, but i'd prefer also trading vrbata for a 1st rounder and having: sedin-sedin-burrows/kassian baertschi-bonino-kassian/burrows virtanen-horvat-hansen kenins-cassels-dorsett vey the middle 6 could also get shuffled around a lot to give a variety of looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorvat Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) i think that lineup is on the right track, but i'd prefer also trading vrbata for a 1st rounder and having: sedin-sedin-burrows/kassian baertschi-bonino-kassian/burrows virtanen-horvat-hansen kenins-cassels-dorsett vey the middle 6 could also get shuffled around a lot to give a variety of looks. Dont break up the Virtanen Horvat Kassian line. They will be deadly. Ferlund will be scared to death Edit: Also i had vey there because he will for sure be on team. But would rather cassels/richardson/mccann there Edited May 29, 2015 by Scorvat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 U may as well slot Baertschi and Virtanen into our next years lineup. Its basically gaurenteed. Sedin Sedin Burrows Baertschi Bonino Vrbata Virtanen Horvat Kassian Dorsett Vey Hansen Higgins or Hansen will be traded. If hansen higgins would take dorsetts spot and dorsett would move to the RW Higgins would go, Hansen isn't going anywhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) ... Fine, but who's going to trade you a big tough forward with skill for a second round pick? Players like Ehlers, Nylander, Shinkaruk, and Baertschi are far easier to come across and acquire than a Virtanen, Kreider, or Kane. Unless Ehlers projects to be a sure-fire PPG first-line player in the NHL, such are not comparable value-wise. Patrick Kane? I agree, that level of player is very hard to come across - for a second round pick or otherwise! Oh, wait... you were talking about Evander Kane since he's a big tough forward, but trying to discount the availability of smaller, highly skilled players by choosing some who have yet to be exceptional. That can be said for big, tough forwards as well when they haven't quite panned out to the ceiling people were expecting. Nylander and Ehlers won't be available for the same value we spent on Baertschi unless something goes sideways. Certainly no one's projecting Sam Bennett's value - at 18 or otherwise - to drop from the level it's been at since the draft and he's a smaller forward. Meanwhile CBJ is pretty happy to part with Rychel right now (they might be wishing they'd picked Theodore now) and Mantha has had a less than exciting season in Detroit's system. So it's not all roses for the big guys. Edited May 29, 2015 by elvis15 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) i think that lineup is on the right track, but i'd prefer also trading vrbata for a 1st rounder and having: sedin-sedin-burrows/kassian baertschi-bonino-kassian/burrows virtanen-horvat-hansen kenins-cassels-dorsett vey the middle 6 could also get shuffled around a lot to give a variety of looks. We hang on to Vrbata until the deadline IMO. Sedin, Sedin, Burr/Kass Baer, Bonino, Vrbata Burr/Kass*, Horvat, Hansen Dorsett, Richardson/UFA/Cassels, Virtanen Vey When we move Vrbata Burr can move to the second and whichever winger in Utica earns it (Kenins/Gaunce/Grenier etc) or Vey slides in to the bottom 6. *If Kassian's on the third, Hansen swaps to LW. Edited May 29, 2015 by J.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyLow_ Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 i think that lineup is on the right track, but i'd prefer also trading vrbata for a 1st rounder and having: sedin-sedin-burrows/kassian baertschi-bonino-kassian/burrows virtanen-horvat-hansen kenins-cassels-dorsett vey the middle 6 could also get shuffled around a lot to give a variety of looks. Virtanen isn't very good on the left side, I don't think Cassels is close but a good summer working on his stride and adding muscle could change that. To be honest that's a really weak line-up, but that means a high pick so I'm in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Virtanen isn't very good on the left side, I don't think Cassels is close but a good summer working on his stride and adding muscle could change that. To be honest that's a really weak line-up, but that means a high pick so I'm in! did virtanen not play almost his entire junior career on the left side? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 did virtanen not play almost his entire junior career on the left side? Scored more from there too if I recall (off wing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I bet Benning has start to write Virtanen into his possible lineup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirensong87 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Virtanen isn't very good on the left side, I don't think Cassels is close but a good summer working on his stride and adding muscle could change that. To be honest that's a really weak line-up, but that means a high pick so I'm in! Scored 45G playing left wing almost full time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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