N4ZZY Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 40 minutes ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said: Virtanen was noticeable (in a good way) on the ice time he got. yah. good progress for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 53 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: Not watching the game. How's his game in the 2nd and 3rd periods? He played consistently well throughout but his ice time took a hit in second and due to PKs and shortening the bench a bit in the third Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bissurnette Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 1 hour ago, J.R. said: Just started watching, Jake is looking 'real good' in the first. Can't wait to see him and Etem playing in the same game. But then who would come out? Lord knows we can't survive without Higgins in the lineup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 1 minute ago, meh_wassup said: But then who would come out? Lord knows we can't survive without Higgins in the lineup Higgins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, Canorth said: He played consistently well throughout but his ice time took a hit in second and due to PKs and shortening the bench a bit in the third I'm happy for Jake tonight. Had a good game. Hope he builds on it, and continues to build his game with confidence. Good starting point tonight. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 8 hours ago, J.R. said: Higgins. That coach's fav got 10 minutes of TOI last night. Virtanen had a great game. what fans do not appreciate enough IMO is how much Virtanen pushes the opposing d-men back. They have to deal with his size and speed and physicality. That creates space for his team mates. It was his play that drew the penalty which resulted in the Baer goal I believe. Players like Virtanen don't always show up on the score sheet but that does not mean they cannot dictate the game to an extent. Excited to see Etem on the right side as well. Built like Virtanen. Vrbata will be gone by the end of February. RW: Hanson-Etem-Virtanen-Dorsett. Lots of potential there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHoneyBadger Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Boudrias said: That coach's fav got 10 minutes of TOI last night. Virtanen had a great game. what fans do not appreciate enough IMO is how much Virtanen pushes the opposing d-men back. They have to deal with his size and speed and physicality. That creates space for his team mates. It was his play that drew the penalty which resulted in the Baer goal I believe. Players like Virtanen don't always show up on the score sheet but that does not mean they cannot dictate the game to an extent. Excited to see Etem on the right side as well. Built like Virtanen. Vrbata will be gone by the end of February. RW: Hanson-Etem-Virtanen-Dorsett. Lots of potential there. I think we will see vrbata, Miller, Higgins and burrows moved by the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post McCannon Posted January 10, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) GREAT ARTICLE ON JAKE and how he's actually ALREADY improving the canucks Also, it uses some advanced stats to show most of those people saying he's a 'bust' really don't understand hockey http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/virtanen-shows-how-he-can-help-canucks-win-right-now/ Some interesting parts below: Though the goal-scoring touch that made Virtanen the CHL’s leading draft eligible player in 5-on-5 goals in his draft year hasn’t translated in the NHL, Virtanen’s peripheral performance in his rookie campaign has been enormously impressive. The fast, physical forward leads all Canucks players in shot-attempt differential, which indicates the things he does on the ice – and especially through the neutral zone – help to create an environment where the Canucks are more likely than not to outscore their opponents at even strength. Virtanen excels with his physical game and on the forecheck, two areas where the Canucks are otherwise lacking. Montreal-based analytics tracking firm Sportlogiq track hits that effectively separate opposing players from the puck. On a per 60 minutes basis, Virtanen is throwing four such hits, a rate that matches what players like Tom Wilson, David Backes and Brandon Dubinsky have done this season. Put simply, Virtanen may already be an elite physical forward. He’s also demonstrated the ability to disrupt the breakout on the forecheck, something the Canucks, as a team, have been woeful at. Sportlogiq tracks a stat they called “successful forechecking plays,” which includes successful blocked passes, stick-checks and body checks in the offensive zone. Virtanen leads the Canucks by this category, though as a team the Cancuks rank 23rd in the NHL. Virtanen is also the team’s best forward by loose-puck recoveries in the offensive zone, a metric that the Canucks rank 29th in as a team. That Virtanen individually excels in a variety of areas in which the Canucks are otherwise poor should be enough to keep Virtanen in the show. --------------------------------------------------- Hot damn sounds like a bust to me hey? Seems like he's fixing big holes in our team and yet all those people who know SOOO much about hockey say he's a bust Maybe he's focusing on the 'little' details the coaches have asked him to, and IS FRIGGEN EXCELLING AT THEM? And at 19! And don't give me 'he's a sixth overall he needs to score' - Baer is just starting to score and is 22/23. And the stats above are showing Jake is excelling at VERY IMPORTANT PARTS OF THE GAME that this team needs, that will make him a great 200 ft player and that he is LISTENING and developing the RIGHT WAY Argue those stats monkey bashers GO JAKE GO! Edited January 10, 2016 by McCannon 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 55 minutes ago, McCannon said: GREAT ARTICLE ON JAKE and how he's actually ALREADY improving the canucks Also, it uses some advanced stats to show most of those people saying he's a 'bust' really don't understand hockey http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/virtanen-shows-how-he-can-help-canucks-win-right-now/ Some interesting parts below: Though the goal-scoring touch that made Virtanen the CHL’s leading draft eligible player in 5-on-5 goals in his draft year hasn’t translated in the NHL, Virtanen’s peripheral performance in his rookie campaign has been enormously impressive. The fast, physical forward leads all Canucks players in shot-attempt differential, which indicates the things he does on the ice – and especially through the neutral zone – help to create an environment where the Canucks are more likely than not to outscore their opponents at even strength. Virtanen excels with his physical game and on the forecheck, two areas where the Canucks are otherwise lacking. Montreal-based analytics tracking firm Sportlogiq track hits that effectively separate opposing players from the puck. On a per 60 minutes basis, Virtanen is throwing four such hits, a rate that matches what players like Tom Wilson, David Backes and Brandon Dubinsky have done this season. Put simply, Virtanen may already be an elite physical forward. He’s also demonstrated the ability to disrupt the breakout on the forecheck, something the Canucks, as a team, have been woeful at. Sportlogiq tracks a stat they called “successful forechecking plays,” which includes successful blocked passes, stick-checks and body checks in the offensive zone. Virtanen leads the Canucks by this category, though as a team the Cancuks rank 23rd in the NHL. Virtanen is also the team’s best forward by loose-puck recoveries in the offensive zone, a metric that the Canucks rank 29th in as a team. That Virtanen individually excels in a variety of areas in which the Canucks are otherwise poor should be enough to keep Virtanen in the show. --------------------------------------------------- Hot damn sounds like a bust to me hey? Seems like he's fixing big holes in our team and yet all those people who know SOOO much about hockey say he's a bust Maybe he's focusing on the 'little' details the coaches have asked him to, and IS FRIGGEN EXCELLING AT THEM? And at 19! And don't give me 'he's a sixth overall he needs to score' - Baer is just starting to score and is 22/23. And the stats above are showing Jake is excelling at VERY IMPORTANT PARTS OF THE GAME that this team needs, that will make him a great 200 ft player and that he is LISTENING and developing the RIGHT WAY Argue those stats monkey bashers GO JAKE GO! These are things that seem to be missed by the 'he didn't earn his spot' (particularly over Gaunce) crowd. He brings things to this team that we are otherwise lacking and (until the Etem trade anyway) did not have available elsewhere in our lineup or prospects. Besides that, any alternatives are not head and shoulders above him in any other areas and moving him to Jr reduces organizational depth. 'Mystery' solved He does lack polishing though. That's where patience comes in. Something sorely lacking round these parts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCannon Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Just now, J.R. said: These are things that seem to be missed by the 'he didn't earn his spot' (particularly over Gaunce) crowd. He brings things to this team that we are otherwise lacking and (until the Etem trade anyway) did not have available elsewhere in our lineup or prospects. Besides that, any alternatives are not head and shoulders above him in any other areas and moving him to Jr reduces organizational depth. 'Mystery' solved He does lack polishing though. That's where patience comes in. Something sorely lacking round these parts. Well it shows those who think they are experts in hockey from their playstation experience (and therefore seem to believe that they are smarter than Benning, Linden, and Hockey Canada, the Canucks coaching and scouting staff.)..that playstation does not make you better experienced to make hockey decisions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nergish Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 59 minutes ago, McCannon said: Hot damn sounds like a bust to me hey? Seems like he's fixing big holes in our team and yet all those people who know SOOO much about hockey say he's a bust Maybe he's focusing on the 'little' details the coaches have asked him to, and IS FRIGGEN EXCELLING AT THEM? And at 19! And don't give me 'he's a sixth overall he needs to score' - Baer is just starting to score and is 22/23. And the stats above are showing Jake is excelling at VERY IMPORTANT PARTS OF THE GAME that this team needs, that will make him a great 200 ft player and that he is LISTENING and developing the RIGHT WAY Argue those stats monkey bashers GO JAKE GO! You're using advanced stats to prove that stats aren't everything when evaluating a young player? But, for me all of this has seemed pretty clear from day 1. He lacks smarts, and will probably never get them at this point (Sedins MIGHT help there)... but physically he is ready. His bull-in-a-china-shop approach to the game simply does not work unless you ARE built like Jake Virtanen. Newsflash: he is. The combined fastest player and hardest checker on your team makes the lineup. Period. There are going to be braincramps, illogical/questionable moments. This is not a "rookie" thing for him, this will persist throughout his career - but sometimes being blissfully ignorant on the ice can put you in positions that other players consider too risky. At present, Jake tries to use his speed to go outside on D, but by the time he's 25 he'll be going THROUGH them. Trust me, you're going to want to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCannon Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 1 minute ago, nergish said: You're using advanced stats to prove that stats aren't everything when evaluating a young player? But, for me all of this has seemed pretty clear from day 1. He lacks smarts, and will probably never get them at this point (Sedins MIGHT help there)... but physically he is ready. His bull-in-a-china-shop approach to the game simply does not work unless you ARE built like Jake Virtanen. Newsflash: he is. The combined fastest player and hardest checker on your team makes the lineup. Period. There are going to be braincramps, illogical/questionable moments. This is not a "rookie" thing for him, this will persist throughout his career - but sometimes being blissfully ignorant on the ice can put you in positions that other players consider too risky. At present, Jake tries to use his speed to go outside on D, but by the time he's 25 he'll be going THROUGH them. Trust me, you're going to want to see that. He's doesn't lack smarts, but he's not a playmaker. He's a shooter, a sniper and needs to be playing with a set up man. Not every player has every single skill in their arsenal. If they did, well they'd all be Eric Lindros Put him with McCann when they are both ready for taking over the offensive reigns and we'll see how good he is. Until then, evaluating his offensive game when he's been getting 8 minutes a night with Prust and Cracknell at 19 years old and having played 19 games is a bit ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoScorvat Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Hope to see more games like that from Virt for a long time to come. I think he has a higher ceiling then most do. He's got good hands and great size and speed. If he learn from the Sedins how to see the game I think he will be a really good player for us in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 2 hours ago, McCannon said: GREAT ARTICLE ON JAKE and how he's actually ALREADY improving the canucks Also, it uses some advanced stats to show most of those people saying he's a 'bust' really don't understand hockey Can you name the posters that have called him a bust? I have seen posters argue that he has limited upside offensively but aside from the occasional troll, not a single poster that posts in this thread regularly has referred to him as a bust. Maybe if you didn't use hyperbole and strawman arguments to prop up your posts, you would be worth taking seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCannon Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Toews said: Can you name the posters that have called him a bust? I have seen posters argue that he has limited upside offensively but aside from the occasional troll, not a single poster that posts in this thread regularly has referred to him as a bust. Maybe if you didn't use hyperbole and strawman arguments to prop up your posts, you would be worth taking seriously. Sadly my ratings on my posts suggest your view of me is in the minority. Perhaps you're offended that I smacked down the haters of Virt? Are you one? Not a single poster? lol...read between the lines in commentary bud. What does 'he was taken sixth overall and will only be a third liner at best suggest"? I've seen that all over the place - you want to play semantics, I can infer, as most educated people can, what that means As for my straw man arguments? really that data above is straw man? Interesting Edited January 10, 2016 by McCannon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 4 minutes ago, McCannon said: Sadly my ratings on my posts suggest your view of me is in the minority Not a single poster? lol...read between the lines in commentary bud. What does 'he was taken sixth overall and will only be a third liner at best suggest"? I've seen that all over the place - you want to play semantics, I can infer, as most educated people can, what that means As for my straw man arguments? really that data above is straw man? Interesting Sorry but I don't care about ratings. A third liner is not a bust. It's not semantics. Not every top 10 pick becomes a 1st line forward. Doesn't make them all busts. Filatov is a bust but Sean Couturier who regularly plays in the Flyers bottom 6 is absolutely not a bust. It is a pretty big distinction but you are free to strawman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCannon Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Toews said: Sorry but I don't care about ratings. A third liner is not a bust. It's not semantics. Not every top 10 pick becomes a 1st line forward. Doesn't make them all busts. Filatov is a bust but Sean Couturier who regularly plays in the Flyers bottom 6 is absolutely not a bust. It is a pretty big distinction but you are free to strawman. Go read my post - go try and argue against the stats LMAO you call that straw man yet you offer no retort other than me me mommy says I am always right so me me me I am right! LOL The point is he's not a bust, I have said that many many times, and regardless of his current offensive output its way to early to even evaluate where he'll end up offensively If you want to have an argument for the point of arguing, that's your issue because that's basically what you're trying to do here, to troll me...good for you, everyone else who's read this thread and countless others on Virtanen is well aware there are numerous posters whining about how he's a bust - good for you - you don't think there are....most of us can see them as I said maybe you're one of them Good luck in life trying to start arguments for no reason salty boy. You're creating a battle over the fact many of us see people calling him a bust and you think people aren't. Really? that's how you spend your Sunday? arguing online about the word bust and those potentially implying if their language means your interpretation of bust? really? Go find a hobby Edited January 10, 2016 by McCannon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 11 minutes ago, Toews said: Can you name the posters that have called him a bust? I have seen posters argue that he has limited upside offensively but aside from the occasional troll, not a single poster that posts in this thread regularly has referred to him as a bust. Maybe if you didn't use hyperbole and strawman arguments to prop up your posts, you would be worth taking seriously. Someone has not been paying attention. Sure people carefully avoid certain words like "bust" but when posters start comparing him to a monkey on skates or that he is the most one dementional player EVER (5th Line) or cherry pick and fabricate stats and straight up lie to make him look bad (DUC), it doesn't take a cryptology degree to read between the lines. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, McCannon said: Go read my post - go try and argue against the stats The point is he's not a bust, I have said many many times regardless of his offensive output its way to early to even evaluate where he'll end up offensively If you want to have an argument for the point of arguing, that's your issue because that's basically what you're trying to do here, to troll me...good for you, everyone else who's read this thread and countless others on Virtanen is well aware there are numerous posters whining about how he's a bust - good for you you don't think there are....most of us can see them as I said maybe you're one of them Good luck in life trying to start arguments for no reason salty boy Lol you felt the need to go back and edit your post with some stupid meme. The edit is also funny as you have been the one that seems to direct personal attacks at anyone who doesn't agree with you. You were also raging at posters caps, earlier in this thread. Again I ask you who has called him a bust, but you seem to have no answer. Yet I am the troll lol. 16 minutes ago, McCannon said: Go read my post - go try and argue against the stats LMAO you call that straw man yet you offer no retort other than me me mommy says I am always right so me me me I am right! LOL Good luck in life trying to start arguments for no reason salty boy. You're creating a battle over the fact many of us see people calling him a bust and you think people aren't. Really? that's how you spend your Sunday? arguing online about the word bust and those potentially implying if their language means your interpretation of bust? really? Go find a hobby I never said the stats were strawman genius. The word "bust" has a specific meaning in the hockey community. It applies to players who never end up making the show or never have any impact at the NHL level. It also applies to prospects that end up being only marginal NHL players. Lol aren't you doing the same. We can add hypocrite the list of things that you are. Edited January 10, 2016 by Toews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, Canorth said: Someone has not been paying attention. Sure people carefully avoid certain words like "bust" but when posters start comparing him to a monkey on skates or that he is the most one dementional player EVER (5th Line) or cherry pick and fabricate stats and straight up lie to make him look bad (DUC), it doesn't take a cryptology degree to read between the lines. 5th line goes overboard with his criticism, I will give you that. He started out as a fairly reasonable poster but constant criticism for his perceived negativity has pushed him to make his posts more extreme I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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