To the people saying "trade Burrows" ....

[EV604]

You do have to look at when a deal was signed as cap limit at that times plays into a deal and whether it is a UFA deal or a RFA deal as ufa's tend to get more. Love how you cherry pick cap hit for some and actual salary for others in your attempt to make Burrows look bad.

Hansen is a quality third line player and his cap hit is very decent for that role. If he ends up on the fourth line it's due to good depth and would put him in the outstanding area of fourth liners. As you like to cherry pick your numbers he's only making 1.5m this season, 500k less than Dorsett. Btw, he has a modified ntc as opposed to a full ntc like Burrows.

Toews and Kane's new deal doesn't start till 2015. http://www.capgeek.com/player/246

UFA's tend to get more on July 1st when big name free agents find NEW homes. Burrows was never a free agent and never tested the market.... So what ever happened to the home town discount?

Cherry pick? It is what it is.... Compare his salary to others around the league it doesn't even come close.

Yeah Hansen makes 1.5 this year but in 2016-17 and 2017-18 he making 3 MILLION per year!!! Is Hansen a 3 million dollar player?

[Hairy Kneel]

The key player is Vey who will push the vets into producing because will be there to take a more prominent role in the top 9 ( ie if Burr/Higgy/Hansen/Kass can't score they'll be moved down). I think the 3rd and 4th line is where the dog fight will be for ice time. With an eye on a rook to step it up.

[higgyfan]

Toews and Kane's new deal doesn't start till 2015. http://www.capgeek.com/player/246

UFA's tend to get more on July 1st when big name free agents find NEW homes. Burrows was never a free agent and never tested the market.... So what ever happened to the home town discount?

Cherry pick? It is what it is.... Compare his salary to others around the league it doesn't even come close.

Yeah Hansen makes 1.5 this year but in 2016-17 and 2017-18 he making 3 MILLION per year!!! Is Hansen a 3 million dollar player?

Baggins was commenting on Toews/Kane original contracts; RFAs in 2008

Burrows was an impending UFA when he signed his current contract.

Your list was cherry picked. Name players that were signed recently and were not RFAs.

Hansen's cap hit is 2.5m. Again, any front loaded/back loaded money is the owner's concern; not the team salary cap.

[aqua59]

So many reactions from emotion. If JB sees a prudent move he'll make it concerning Burrows.

There's little debate concerning Burrows. At this point in his career he offers a lot in the room too for the younger players.

I noticed that the Sedins really started to pick their careers up after playing with Sundin. They took a lot away from that veteran.

Burrows can be that veteran for a lot of the younger players.

[GrogZilla]

Toews and Kane's new deal doesn't start till 2015. http://www.capgeek.com/player/246

UFA's tend to get more on July 1st when big name free agents find NEW homes. Burrows was never a free agent and never tested the market.... So what ever happened to the home town discount?

Cherry pick? It is what it is.... Compare his salary to others around the league it doesn't even come close.

Yeah Hansen makes 1.5 this year but in 2016-17 and 2017-18 he making 3 MILLION per year!!! Is Hansen a 3 million dollar player?

Actual salary is irrelevant, all that matters is cap hit.

In the last 5 years Burrows has scored 107 goals to place 40th in NHL goals over that time period, & that's including his miserable, injury plagued last season.

That puts him 3 behind Giroux & Vrbata, 1 behind Brad Richards, tied with Dustin Brown, ahead of Backes, Eriksson & Pacioretty.

Burrows is a very good hockey player. He has off the charts hockey sense. You can put him at any forward position on any line & he'll be what that line needs.

Need a shooter? He can be the guy to get open & get the shot.

Need a net presence? he can be the guy to crash the net looking for greasy goals.

Need a guy to dig the puck out & find the open shooter? He can do that.

Need a superstar shut down? He can do that.

No-one on the team comes close to having his combination of skill, speed, grit & versatility.

He has ofc benefited from playing with the twins, but that's not a 1 way street, the twins have benefited from playing with Burrows too.

He isn't overpaid, If he's playing on the 2nd line this year then he's going to be the best player on that line & will be a solid bet to score 20+ this year.

[Baggins]

Toews and Kane's new deal doesn't start till 2015. http://www.capgeek.com/player/246

UFA's tend to get more on July 1st when big name free agents find NEW homes. Burrows was never a free agent and never tested the market.... So what ever happened to the home town discount?

Cherry pick? It is what it is.... Compare his salary to others around the league it doesn't even come close.

Yeah Hansen makes 1.5 this year but in 2016-17 and 2017-18 he making 3 MILLION per year!!! Is Hansen a 3 million dollar player?

Again with the cherry picking. Ignore what Toews and Kane will make in 2015 but complain what Hansen will make in 2017. And you cherry pick whether you compare actual salary or cap hit throughout your post.

When a deal is signed does make a difference. As it's signed accorded to the current cap limit. You're comparing Toews and Kanes expiring RFA deal to Burrows first and second year of a ufa deal.

There's little difference between signing a pending ufa and an actual ufa. I you want to keep your pending ufa's it's best to sign them prior to seeing what the open market is going to offer as it could well drive the price up. GM's, agents, and players are well aware of open market values but there are always those that will offer more to get a player. RFA's don't tend to have the same clout in negotiations as UFA's. Even in arbitration the players side can't use UFA deals as a comparison.

If you want to make contract comparisons to any deal you need to select players signed the same year under the same circumstances (ufa's/pending ufa's).

[TheSecretIsMe]

If you want to make contract comparisons to any deal you need to select players signed the same year under the same circumstances (ufa's/pending ufa's).

Exactly, it's an extremely unfair comparison if you ignore the circumstances behind the signing.

Also, Burrows is a lot better than EV is giving him credit for. Not to mention, even the players he listed above have had bad years and on that note the previous season was Burr's poor year.

Plus, anyone who watched Burr play last season would be able to identify that he played the same way he always had. He just wasn't hitting the back of the net and to add to his woes he was constantly injured. How can you even judge a player like Burr based on those circumstances...cut the guy a break!

[JCM7]

Your kidding right?!? Burrows is a 4.5 Mill cap hit but he actually made 6 MILLION last year and 5 this year!!!! 5-6 MILLION for a 3rd liner who scores 15 goals and your happy with that??? OMG u got to be freaking kidding me!!!!! Dane Fox, Hunter Shinkaruk or Horvat could score 15 goals on the 3rd line for 900k, heck we could have even brought back Mason Raymond to do that for a fraction of the price.

Players in the league making 4.5 million cap hit;

David Backes

Vincent Lecavilier

Jacob Voracek

Max Pacioretty

James VanRiemsdyk

Loui Erikson

Players in the Nhl making 6 Million 2013-2015 seasons :

Jonathan Toews 6.5

Patrick Kane 6.5

John Tavares 6

Patrick Sharp 6.5

Marian Gaborik 6.075

Milian Lucic 6

Taylor Hall 6

Evander Kane 6

RNH 6

Logan Couture 6

ALEX BURROWS 6

Your telling me Burrows is in this caliber of players??? With these Olympians and NHL all stars?!?!? For someone making that amount of money, you have to be able to do something on your own!!!!! Can't just say "oh I play well with the twins." That's like anyone else saying I can only play with Crosby and Malkin or Ovechkin.

This is the difference between us and other teams, we have way to many overpaid players. And the worst part is almost all of CDC falls in love with our players and are to blind to see the real picture. We need bang for buck in order to succeed, especially in a salary cap era, we need to make every dollar count.

Janick Hansen is also on the list. 2.5 Million with a NO TRADE CLAUSE FOR A 4TH LINER!!!

I should make something clear. I agree with everything that you are saying. As much as I defend Alex Burrows, I firmly believe that Mike Gillis is an idiot and that it would be hard for a GM to damage a team as much as he has damaged this one if he were trying to do so. Alex Burrows is a very good player, not an elite player, but a very good player. If he made half as much as he does I think that would be a good deal for the Canucks. The point is that his contract is signed and there is nothing that Jim Benning, Trevor Linden, or you or I can do about it. If he has a strong year another team could possibly take him on at the deadline. If that situation were to arise and Burr was willing to waive then I think JB should definitely consider it.

Right now, Burrows is a 4.5M dollar gamble and the return for him would reflect that. Since there is nothing on the market worth spending that money on right now and we have no buy-outs available and we don't have a lot of extra guys with the ability to fill a top 6 spot, the best thing that JB can do is keep him and hope for a bounce back year. Right now, the Canucks would be lucky to get a late round draft pick for Burrows. He needs a much better season and nobody knows that more than burrows himself.

If there was an excellent top 6 guy on the market and the Canucks were in a solid position to sign that forward and the only thing standing in there way was needing 4.5M in cap space, then they should do whatever it takes to get him to waive and trade him for a bag of pucks. Not because he is a bad player, but because he has a terrible contract (thank you MG). This is not the case.

We are better off to keep him right now and take the hit in the wallet than to ditch him for nothing. He is an incredibly hard working player and I think he will have a much better year. It probably won't be worth the value of his contract, but he will be one of our best 6 forwards.

Forget about the money. It's already gone.

[JCM7]

Exactly, it's an extremely unfair comparison if you ignore the circumstances behind the signing.

Also, Burrows is a lot better than EV is giving him credit for. Not to mention, even the players he listed above have had bad years and on that note the previous season was Burr's poor year.

Plus, anyone who watched Burr play last season would be able to identify that he played the same way he always had. He just wasn't hitting the back of the net and to add to his woes he was constantly injured. How can you even judge a player like Burr based on those circumstances...cut the guy a break!

Exactly. I agree that 4.5M is too high based on the last 2 years. That said, 2012-2013 was not terrible and it was a lock-out shortened season so it's tough to cast judgement on that. Last year was a nightmare, but while he was in the line up he played the same way he always has. Pucks weren't finding the net, but he was still making plays. As soon as things started to come together he was injured again.

There is a misconception from some posters in this thread about injuries. Some people have said things like Burrows shouldn't have returned to the line up if he wasn't healthy. There is a difference between being healthy and being in game shape.

When a player gets injured he is assessed by medical professionals. The player then follows their direction. The doctors will always try to allow them to try and keep in as good a condition as possible. If a player has an injured shoulder, they will most likely be able to keep on lower body workouts.

Once it is safe to do so, they begin rehabilitation of the areas affected by the injury. Progress is closely monitored and as improvement is shown the rehabilitation will intensify. At some point, rehabilitation will be complete and the doctor(s) will advise that no further damage should occur by the player resuming regular workouts. the player can then resume taking part in full practices, etc.

A player can take part in as many full practices and game simulations, lift weights, run, swim, and climb mountains until he is better physical shape than he was prior to the injury but he will still not be accustomed to the pace and physicality of NHL games. The only thing that will get him there is playing in NHL games.

Once a player and his team have received advisement that no further damage is likely to be done by resuming the full level of activity that the player was used to prior to the injury, it is up to those parties to determine when the player is in good enough shape to play.

I think that Burrows was in good enough physical shape to play. He wanted very badly to come back into the line up and make a big impact. His first few games he came very close to scoring a number of times, but pucks weren't finding the net. I think that he kept working extremely hard and generally played very well, but he probably did start to have confidence issues when nothing was going in the net.

Burrows is well aware that he is expected to produce offencively and probably put a lot of pressure on himself to do so. It took forever, but as soon as one finally went in the net for him he scored 5 in 4 games and then got injured again.

After Burr scored his first, Henrik said in a post game interview "I think you're going to see a lot different Alex Burrows over the next few games". Sure enough, we did. All of the guys who play with him know that he is an excellent player who was having a lot of trouble getting his confidence back... Not a washed up player who has lost his ability to score.

Burrows will be a lot better this year.

[EV604]

I should make something clear. I agree with everything that you are saying. As much as I defend Alex Burrows, I firmly believe that Mike Gillis is an idiot and that it would be hard for a GM to damage a team as much as he has damaged this one if he were trying to do so. Alex Burrows is a very good player, not an elite player, but a very good player. If he made half as much as he does I think that would be a good deal for the Canucks. The point is that his contract is signed and there is nothing that Jim Benning, Trevor Linden, or you or I can do about it. If he has a strong year another team could possibly take him on at the deadline. If that situation were to arise and Burr was willing to waive then I think JB should definitely consider it.

Right now, Burrows is a 4.5M dollar gamble and the return for him would reflect that. Since there is nothing on the market worth spending that money on right now and we have no buy-outs available and we don't have a lot of extra guys with the ability to fill a top 6 spot, the best thing that JB can do is keep him and hope for a bounce back year. Right now, the Canucks would be lucky to get a late round draft pick for Burrows. He needs a much better season and nobody knows that more than burrows himself.

If there was an excellent top 6 guy on the market and the Canucks were in a solid position to sign that forward and the only thing standing in there way was needing 4.5M in cap space, then they should do whatever it takes to get him to waive and trade him for a bag of pucks. Not because he is a bad player, but because he has a terrible contract (thank you MG). This is not the case.

We are better off to keep him right now and take the hit in the wallet than to ditch him for nothing. He is an incredibly hard working player and I think he will have a much better year. It probably won't be worth the value of his contract, but he will be one of our best 6 forwards.

Forget about the money. It's already gone.

Well said!

[EV604]

Exactly, it's an extremely unfair comparison if you ignore the circumstances behind the signing.

Also, Burrows is a lot better than EV is giving him credit for. Not to mention, even the players he listed above have had bad years and on that note the previous season was Burr's poor year.

Plus, anyone who watched Burr play last season would be able to identify that he played the same way he always had. He just wasn't hitting the back of the net and to add to his woes he was constantly injured. How can you even judge a player like Burr based on those circumstances...cut the guy a break!

All I'm saying is in the salary cap era, we need bang for buck. And Burrows for 4.5 is not worth it. We already got someone else better to play with the twins. He is ineffective without them and tops out at 10-15 goals max... 4.5 mill for 10-15 goals sounds like Booth to me.

I seriously think Jensen could easily take his spot and produce the same type of numbers or better then him. Not to mention Horvat and Shinkaruk could possibly be ready as well. Time to change the culture and get some new faces on board.

Jensen cap hit 864k - Horvat 894k - Shinkaruk 894k, I'm not saying just give one of these kids a spot, I know they have to be ready and earn it. If they show good in camp Burrows is expendable and all 3 kids have way higher offensive upside then Bur ever did.

Not to mention he is blacklisted by every referee in the game and is power play waiting for the other team.

I just don't think he's a JB type of player and don't forget he was the one that bit Bergeron's finger in the SCF.

[higgyfan]

All I'm saying is in the salary cap era, we need bang for buck. And Burrows for 4.5 is not worth it. We already got someone else better to play with the twins. He is ineffective without them and tops out at 10-15 goals max... 4.5 mill for 10-15 goals sounds like Booth to me.

I seriously think Jensen could easily take his spot and produce the same type of numbers or better then him. Not to mention Horvat and Shinkaruk could possibly be ready as well. Time to change the culture and get some new faces on board.

Jensen cap hit 864k - Horvat 894k - Shinkaruk 894k, I'm not saying just give one of these kids a spot, I know they have to be ready and earn it. If they show good in camp Burrows is expendable and all 3 kids have way higher offensive upside then Bur ever did.

Not to mention he is blacklisted by every referee in the game and is power play waiting for the other team.

I just don't think he's a JB type of player and don't forget he was the one that bit Bergeron's finger in the SCF.

Much of what you say is speculation.

Burr brings +++ more than just scoring goals; not the sort of skills that rookies start out with.

Pls listen to what Dejardins has to say about Burrows.

[Mcfly]

Everyone's all about "what've you done for me recently"

It hurts me to say, but with the proper return I'd let him go, as it was with anyone. Even though Burr is my favorite Nucklehead

...You could say that about any player no matter how good they are or were for us. It's fans attitudes that tick me off. Namely I get tired of our own fans.

...I remember a few years back with the "retire Linden already!" threads. ...fans showing their appreciation by making unsupportive comments in the off seasons.

Yeah, it's nice to win, but let's have some respect for those who have been able to put us there and try to recognize a few of the sacrifices they've made.

These guys are people with families, before they are athletes.

Pretty sure some folks will harp on about "well they are athletes and they make millions blah blah"... but bullocks to that attitude.

What Canucks fans need to realize is that their qualities as a fan ARE NOT dependant on HOW MUCH you want the cup, but what you do as a fan to support your team to getting one. No matter how good they are, or bad they are.

[JCM7]

All I'm saying is in the salary cap era, we need bang for buck. And Burrows for 4.5 is not worth it. We already got someone else better to play with the twins. He is ineffective without them and tops out at 10-15 goals max... 4.5 mill for 10-15 goals sounds like Booth to me.

I seriously think Jensen could easily take his spot and produce the same type of numbers or better then him. Not to mention Horvat and Shinkaruk could possibly be ready as well. Time to change the culture and get some new faces on board.

Jensen cap hit 864k - Horvat 894k - Shinkaruk 894k, I'm not saying just give one of these kids a spot, I know they have to be ready and earn it. If they show good in camp Burrows is expendable and all 3 kids have way higher offensive upside then Bur ever did.

Not to mention he is blacklisted by every referee in the game and is power play waiting for the other team.

I just don't think he's a JB type of player and don't forget he was the one that bit Bergeron's finger in the SCF.

It will be interesting to see how burrows performs this year. You might be right. He might score 15 goals. I think he will end up in the 20 - 25 range, but I could be wrong. I do think that he brings more to the table than just scoring goals and I think that if he can bounce back with a decent season that his experience could be an asset to some of the younger guys. As I mentioned before, I think that he knows that he has to have a much better season and I think that he will come to camp in great shape and will work his ass off to prove that he can be a big part of this team.

I remember watching Burrows as a rookie and thinking that I had rarely seen a guy put in the kind of effort that he did. He didn't score a lot back then, but you had to feel like if he kept doing all of the little things that he did so well and working as hard as he did that goals would start to come. Obviously the Sedins contributed to his numbers, but he also vastly improved every year and worked very hard to do so. I don't think that desire to succeed is gone.

This is probably the most important season of AB's career. I think that he will be the hardest working player on the team and whether he scores 10 goals or 30 goals he will put in a noticeable effort. He will keep doing a lot of little things very well and he will help more than he will hurt the team.

I still believe that AB has the ability to be a good top 6 guy and score 20+ goals. I admit that this is partially because I want to believe it, but it is also because even through last year I could still see him doing a lot of the things that made him successful.

[EV604]

Much of what you say is speculation.

Burr brings +++ more than just scoring goals; not the sort of skills that rookies start out with.

Pls listen to what Dejardins has to say about Burrows.

Ineffective without the twins = fact

Blacklisted by referees = fact

Not a JB type of player = fact

I don't see dejardins comments....

[EV604]

It will be interesting to see how burrows performs this year. You might be right. He might score 15 goals. I think he will end up in the 20 - 25 range, but I could be wrong. I do think that he brings more to the table than just scoring goals and I think that if he can bounce back with a decent season that his experience could be an asset to some of the younger guys. As I mentioned before, I think that he knows that he has to have a much better season and I think that he will come to camp in great shape and will work his ass off to prove that he can be a big part of this team.

I remember watching Burrows as a rookie and thinking that I had rarely seen a guy put in the kind of effort that he did. He didn't score a lot back then, but you had to feel like if he kept doing all of the little things that he did so well and working as hard as he did that goals would start to come. Obviously the Sedins contributed to his numbers, but he also vastly improved every year and worked very hard to do so. I don't think that desire to succeed is gone.

This is probably the most important season of AB's career. I think that he will be the hardest working player on the team and whether he scores 10 goals or 30 goals he will put in a noticeable effort. He will keep doing a lot of little things very well and he will help more than he will hurt the team.

I still believe that AB has the ability to be a good top 6 guy and score 20+ goals. I admit that this is partially because I want to believe it, but it is also because even through last year I could still see him doing a lot of the things that made him successful.

Without the twins on his line he's not getting anywhere close to 20

Burrows as a rookie, that was almost 10 years ago, I remember booth as a rookie in Florida too.

[Gurn]

"Ineffective with the twins = fact"

The twins have had their best seasons with Burrows on the line-truth.

[JCM7]

Without the twins on his line he's not getting anywhere close to 20

The WD comments that the other poster was talking about are from a radio interview that is posted on another thread. It seems that WD plans on Burrows playing a big role with the team, possibly even playing with the Sedins.

Time will tell how many goals he scores this year. I agree with you on much of what you're saying, but I still think that Burrows is better than you are giving him credit for.

I will say that you are putting yourself in a good position. If Burrows does have another bad year you can say I told you so. On the other hand, if I am right and he has a rebound year you can be pleasantly surprised.

[RUPERTKBD]

Ineffective with the twins = fact

quote]

Fact? According to whom?

How do you think he got that contract in the first place?

[EV604]

Sorry I meant ineffective WITHOUT the twins

He got the contract by riding the twins coats tails. Much like Anson Carter