Canucks Player Depth Gone (Discussion)

[tyhee]

Virtanen earned his spot during the pre-season and is only sitting because of injury. If the young guns are not ready they will be sent down.

Source, please? I'm aware of his ugly looking eye and that he might do well to deflect shots with his stick in the future, but not of any injury actually keeping him out of the lineup.

If he's sitting because of injury it's strange that it wasn't mentioned in the Province article here http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ewen+virtanen+hopes+canucks+will+play/11425304/story.htmlabout Virtanen not playing.

[c00kies]

Source, please? I'm aware of his ugly looking eye and that he might do well to deflect shots with his stick in the future, but not of any injury actually keeping him out of the lineup.

I must have missed that.......I knew he had a couple of stiches around the eye, but didn't think it was enough to keep him out of a line up......can anyone confirm this

Thanks for the update..

Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to his eye injury.

[canuckledraggin]

This is the year we find out. Management and coaching has decided that we have NHL talent in our system. JB didn't go all in on free agency and the team didn't offer anyone a PTO. WD said at the prospects camp that he saw 6 future NHL caliber players.

With the contracts that we have, we'll be able to sprinkle in the young talent from the minors over the next few years. If it's an insane year for injury like the '13-'14 season, then we'll get a look at what we have a bit earlier than expected.

Where all of the "concerned" and "worried" Canucks fans feel as though our cupboards are still bare, our management and coaches feel they have good prospects and they're willing to promote from within to challenge these young players.

I like the direction that we're heading and if there's a glaring hole that presents itself in the off-season, there's always free agency.

[Crabcakes]

It's a transition year and next year will be too. This is something the Canucks and their fans haven't had to go through since the Sedin group transitioned from the Naslund group. There will be a few mediocre years but the prospect pool is starting to look good and the future looks bright.

[J.I.A.H.N]

_{As usual Tyhee, ......I love your comments and evaluations!}

_{I guess, I have not made my point clear enough. I do love our rookies, and if they stick, I am good with that, as long as they get sufficient minutes to continue to develop (I would, for our long term future rather have them sent back "if" they are not going to get enough minutes or be put in the wrong situations. And I do yield to Benning on that, I am just expressing my opinion on that one.}

_{My point is, I need to see more out of Baertschi, I don't think Vey is an answer to anything as the rookies are better than him already, Gaunce is NHL ready for NHL minutes and just got caught in a numbers game, From what I am hearing Pedan will be interchangeable with Sbisa at his apex, the Russian is a long ways away in more ways than one, Cassels had a lot of help shutting down McDavid ( and yes I like him, but look at his prospects camp report ), Subban is small and a defensive liability at this point and I have no idea why anyone does not know that.}

_{Both Broeser and Demko are ranked in the top 10 NCAA talents this year, and I like that, but are still years away from really helping the Canucks}

_{And after saying all that, it isn't my point.............my point is there is no one ready to really help the Canucks this year, if injuries start to stock pile.......mostly because they are already here! All the good one are here!}

_{Take in point, the 2011 year when we went to the Stanley Cup Finals..............how many defense men did we use?.......cause we just don't have that many bonified Dman................matter of fact...most of CDC can't and won't get past Sbisa..........}

_{All I am saying is we have a very shallow depth pool of veterans and rookies on the farm for emergency call up or promotion.................not that I don't like our prospects or our rookies}

[Z Hockey]

You're seriously under rating Shinkaruk if you think his ceiling is Mason Raymond...

[Crabcakes]

Jan......Patience.....Rome wasn't built in a day. You will find the answers to most of your concerns in Benning interviews of which there are many. My point is that management is well aware of the shortcomings of the team and are working on it.

The Naslund core group peaked at about the lockout year, 2004. The Sedin group, 2011. Benning has said that it will take 5 years of drafting well to build a solid group of prospects coming up. He considers the first good year to be the Horvat year, 2012.

You might be chewing your finger nails in the meantime but smart people are in charge.

[Frazzy Desjardins]

you do realize that theres a draft next year right? and the one after that... and the one after that, and the one after that, and the one after that...

theres also things called trades, we also happen to have expiring contracts to vets this year that will be translated into picks and jb has stated before that he was eyeing the 2016 draft and that excites me cause he seems to have a very good eye for talent, all of a sudden this team can scout.

plus i dont think you mentioned sven baertschi either..

disagree

[BCNeil]

An other wonderful thread by the genius. Yes with a handful of our prospects making the team (for the time being at least), will conversely reduce the number of prospects NOT on the team.

[Baggins]

Actually our forward depth is better by adding Virtanen and McCann. For them it's here or junior with no recall. If not for their preseason performance it would be Vey and Gaunce on the team. Two bodies that can now be recalled from Utica to cover injuries. Honestly, how many teams can call up a farm player that is as good or better than the injured player being replaced? They are on the farm team for a reason.

Really we're 2 whopping games into the season. More than half our team is veterans. We're nothing like Edmonton at all. There's absolutely no reason to panic at this point.

[SamJamIam]

With the promotion of Horvat, McCann, Virtanen, and Hutton, it makes it abundantly clear, just what we have in depth of young players, ready to take their place in the Canuck lineup over the next couple of years.

Sitting on the farm are possible additions of Gaunce, Kenins, and Jansen, all of which are 3rd and 4th liners.

Now maybe Shinkaruk(Mason Raymond light), Cassels(slow by all reports), and Subban(small and defensively weak) can join the group but between the 6 AHL players, we will be lucky if any of them make more than 3rd line/or #5/6 Dman on the big club, this asks the question of where the top line players will come from.

Well, Demko and Broeser are 2 that will have a good chance, but looking at this by the numbers, it looks very thin.

Looking at our older players Hank and Dank, Burrows, Vrbata, Burrows, Hamhuis,Miller,and even Edler to a lesser extent, we really must ask ourselves, who will take these players spots in the up coming years?

So why state the obvious? Well aside from Tanev , Bo and Hutton we have few young top end players, one of which is just developing, on the big club.....we are thin

Looking at our roster, we are 1 or 2 injuries short of a very tough season, if we can dodge the injury bug, we can stay competitive and push for a playoff spot, but I wonder if any one of 7 were lost long term, we may be in a heap of trouble. (Hank, Dank, Horvat, Edler, Tanev, Hamhuis, Miller).

I am not trying to throw cold water on the early season, but there are 82 games and a lot of injuries to come.

It truly makes me wonder if we are ready? Hutton has been a nice surprise, McCann has some great potential, but we are using rookies because we have no real depth.

This makes me question the moving of Garrison, Matthais, Richardson and to a lesser extent Kassian.

(I only say Kassian, as if you really look at it, if Kassian was that bad, than maybe we should have moved him into stage 2 rehab ourselves, and crossed our fingers...it seems his potential is worth more than the return, or the replacement with a 4th line UFA)

We have definitely weakened since the 2013 -2014 season

Agree or Disagree?

Seems like your entire argument hinges on this. It amazes me how you can hold a belief like this and never examine it. If you did, you'd come to the conclusion that what you just stated implies that rookies can't play on a good team. You're telling me that Tarasenko and Filip Forsberg got to play on their respective teams because of lack of depth?

[bigbadcanucks]

First off BIGBADCANUCK, I love what I have seen from our rookies, and have not said anything other than that, and they may all turn out exactly as we hope. I HOPE!

But the mere fact that we are playing 3 rookies, a unproven 2nd liner, and a young unproven goalie, says a lot about depth.....I am not saying anything bad about these guys, only pointing out that teams with depth do not rely on so many young players, unless your team is Edmonton.

"IF" these guys are rushed, or just as bad "sat" aka Virtanen, too much it could change our future path a lot. I am not saying that will happen, but I ask you. Are we doing the right thing relying on these young players so heavily?

And if we are now, I wonder what will happen when we do run into injuries....as what happened with Edler getting sick.....Hutton was the player that was elevated, and that is because he is truly the only one that can play top 4.

As for Shinkaruk , and Cassels, well if you read the fans comments down in Utica, you may get an understanding of what I am talking about.......not that it hasn't been talked about up here.....their best player was Jensen for the first game, and that says a lot to me........

Our brightest prospects are in the NCAA, and one is a goalie..............

But I digress, as this post was about depth, I merely posted about the youth as an indication as to why I thought that.

Again, when you look past the players on this club, do you see any NHL ready players ready to help us win a cup ?

And that is why I question depth!

PS.............just look at who our goalie is tomorrow if Miller goes down!

I'm assuming your questions are rhetorical, but I'll do my best to humor you with a response.

"Are we doing the right thing by relying on these young players so heavily?" -- have you seen the ice time that McCann and Baertschi are getting? Baertschi - 13:10; McCann - 10:53; Hutton - 18:09 (over inflated because of Edler's illness in Game 2). This is still a Canucks team that relies HEAVILY on the Sedins, Burrows, Vrbata, Sutter, Edler, Tanev, Hamhuis and other vets. Horvat is being spoken of as a vet by management and coaches only because he's earned it with his play on the ice.

"...NHL ready players ready to help us win a cup?" -- if you honestly think that this team is primed to win the cup now, you really are lacking hockey DNA. How about you give the kids 1-2 years to mature into bona-fide NHL players? And yes, the prospect core that is currently in Utica and in juniors/college are more than capable of developing into NHL players that will help the Canucks challenge for the cup in 3-4 years time. The Canucks are going to contend for the no. 8 seed in the WC this season.

The rest of your post...you're opinion/assessment and conjecturing of injuries made me laugh. Thanks for that. Because Jensen was the best Comets player said something to you? What makes you think he was the best Comets player? You might want watch the game and before making comments -- Comets outplayed the Amerks and ran into a white-hot goalie.

You should really pay attention to what is going on, rather making a bunch of assumptions. I'm sure you would enjoy your experience as a Canucks fan much more.

[bigbadcanucks]

Virtanen earned his spot during the pre-season and is only sitting because of (eye) injury. If the young guns are not ready they will be sent down.

I don't think that means what you think it means.

I'm guessing that you haven't read the Nut's other posts.

[tyhee]

_...

_{And after saying all that, it isn't my point.............my point is there is no one ready to really help the Canucks this year, if injuries start to stock pile.......mostly because they are already here! All the good one are here!}

_...

Thanks Jan. I had missed your point.

Do you consider there is much difference between, say

C-Vey, Jones

W-Gaunce, Kenins, Jensen, Grenier, Shinkaruk

D-Biega, Fedun, Pedan

G-Bachman

and the 2013-14 versions of

C-Dalpe, Schroeder

W-Jensen, Archibald, Lain, Zalewski, Ferreiro, Welsh

D-Diaz, Corrado, Sauve

G-Markstrom?

[J.I.A.H.N]

Thanks Jan. I had missed your point.

Do you consider there is much difference between, say

C-Vey, Jones

W-Gaunce, Kenins, Jensen, Grenier, Shinkaruk

D-Biega, Fedun, Pedan

G-Bachman

and the 2013-14 versions of

C-Dalpe, Schroeder

W-Jensen, Archibald, Lain, Zalewski, Ferreiro, Welsh

D-Diaz, Corrado, Sauve

G-Markstrom?

In hind sight no, but at the time, Jensen was still one of our top prospects, Schroeder was still thought of as a possibility, Corrado had just missed the Canadian National team, and Markstrom was "the best Goalie" not playing in the NHL.

At that time, yes that is what we thought.......what will we think of the current bunch in 2 years, just look how fast Jensen fell out of favor.

But I do agree Gaunce and Shinkaruk do have potential.........

And I knew you got my point even if you didn't agree with it!

[erkayloomeh]

Here's what we have to be excited about as far as our future goes.

McCann virtanen boeser Hutton pedan

And Shink and bear

Gaunce Tryamkin subban I don't find too exciting at least not yet.

I don't remember having that many rookies to be excited about at the same time

[Canuck Surfer]

With the promotion of Horvat, McCann, Virtanen, and Hutton, it makes it abundantly clear, just what we have in depth of young players, ready to take their place in the Canuck lineup over the next couple of years.

Sitting on the farm are possible additions of Gaunce, Kenins, and Jansen, all of which are 3rd and 4th liners.

Now maybe Shinkaruk(Mason Raymond light), Cassels(slow by all reports), and Subban(small and defensively weak) can join the group but between the 6 AHL players, we will be lucky if any of them make more than 3rd line/or #5/6 Dman on the big club, this asks the question of where the top line players will come from.

Well, Demko and Broeser are 2 that will have a good chance, but looking at this by the numbers, it looks very thin.

Looking at our older players Hank and Dank, Burrows, Vrbata, Burrows, Hamhuis,Miller,and even Edler to a lesser extent, we really must ask ourselves, who will take these players spots in the up coming years?

So why state the obvious? Well aside from Tanev , Bo and Hutton we have few young top end players, one of which is just developing, on the big club.....we are thin

Looking at our roster, we are 1 or 2 injuries short of a very tough season, if we can dodge the injury bug, we can stay competitive and push for a playoff spot, but I wonder if any one of 7 were lost long term, we may be in a heap of trouble. (Hank, Dank, Horvat, Edler, Tanev, Hamhuis, Miller).

I am not trying to throw cold water on the early season, but there are 82 games and a lot of injuries to come.

It truly makes me wonder if we are ready? Hutton has been a nice surprise, McCann has some great potential, but we are using rookies because we have no real depth.

This makes me question the moving of Garrison, Matthais, Richardson and to a lesser extent Kassian.

(I only say Kassian, as if you really look at it, if Kassian was that bad, than maybe we should have moved him into stage 2 rehab ourselves, and crossed our fingers...it seems his potential is worth more than the return, or the replacement with a 4th line UFA)

We have definitely weakened since the 2013 -2014 season

Agree or Disagree?

I disagree.

I have not thrown Gaunce and certainly not Cassels into the doghouse first.

2knd we're just incorporating three first rounders in Baer, Jake & McCann into our forward line up. They are not as seasoned but have vast amounts more talent than those they replace. Also Hutton who looks much better than a 5th rounder. And we have Gaunce & Grenier close to ready. Shinkaruk and hopefully still Jensen cooking. We could have signed a Mathias, or a Santorelli. The fact we did not have to suggests we actually have depth versus the opposite.

The next step will be to use cap space next year to get better? Instead of buying "depth."

So no I am not disappointed we no longer have Garrison (am disappointed what we traded him for, Vey, did not turn out), Mathias, Richardson.

I am curious as hell? By memory you were among the loudest of all tanking posters last year? Calling for a sheer cull of such players. Sell them for something, anything & also the bigger names like Hamhuis, Higgins, Burrows in the name of acquiring futures.

[The Lock]

Disagree...

1. It's pretty evident already that we're a faster team on the ice.

2. It's also pretty evident that we have more grind, at least in the 1st 4 games.

3. We actually have like.... rookies!... and they're actually on this team! Not just one rookie either!

4. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices to get where you truely want to go. Get rid of what's blocking you, no matter how much the obstacle may dazzle you.

If we do have less depth, it's for a better long run. I'm a firm, believer that we needed this change and this also proves that tanking is not the only option.

[J.I.A.H.N]

I disagree.

I have not thrown Gaunce and certainly not Cassels into the doghouse first.

2knd we're just incorporating three first rounders in Baer, Jake & McCann into our forward line up. They are not as seasoned but have vast amounts more talent than those they replace. Also Hutton who looks much better than a 5th rounder. And we have Gaunce & Grenier close to ready. Shinkaruk and hopefully still Jensen cooking. We could have signed a Mathias, or a Santorelli. The fact we did not have to suggests we actually have depth versus the opposite.

The next step will be to use cap space next year to get better? Instead of buying "depth."

So no I am not disappointed we no longer have Garrison (am disappointed what we traded him for, Vey, did not turn out), Mathias, Richardson.

I am curious as hell? By memory you were among the loudest of all tanking posters last year? Calling for a sheer cull of such players. Sell them for something, anything & also the bigger names like Hamhuis, Higgins, Burrows in the name of acquiring futures.

Ultimately Surfer, I am still a tanker, but am watching the beginning of the season with some interest. And I am enjoying watching Virtanen, McCann, Hutton and Horvat to a lesser extent, I love the energy. I have been reading a lot on Broeser's early season play, and he and Demko look to be in the same class as the other 4. Not a bad start.

With the Canucks playing so well right now, and teams like the Kings and Calgary not, I might be forced to change my early season prediction, but it is still early, and we shall see????

Maybe I have jumped the gun a little, but it is vey uncommon to have 3 rookies join the line up in a single season (it happens, but not often), and as the season progresses, I surely hope they don't fall off, but if they do, or if they get sent back, or any combination of the above, we will be let with the same replacement players, to cover of injuries.

This is what I think Benning faces is the question of who replaces the rookies, if they are sent back to junior, because they will not be available if they are sent back, and there does not seem to be the same caliber of player that can come up if those injuries occur, otherwise they would already be here, and Virtanen and McCann would have already sent back.

Again, McCann and Virtanen have given them depth, but there is no one on the farm that is remotely close to the same level as them.

Hence my post ..................

As for the Tank........I never said "Tank", or at least not for the reason of getting a lower pick, rather just to move players like Vrbata, while they were high...........(I wonder his value now?)

As for Garrison and the 2nd rounders traded........hey, it was worth the risk and if one paid off, Benning would have looked like a genious................and the season is early!