A NEW BEGINNING Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 OK, I checked the Vrbata/Hamhuis proposals and didn't see this one, and since there are so many, I hope I can get your attention on this one. Many have said that Vancouver can not get any firsts for either Hamhuis or Vrbata, but I disagree Here is the trade Vancouver Vrbata,Hamhuis (50% cap retained) + 2016 3rd Pittsburgh 2016 2nd and 2017 1st + salary dump Here is my reason why Pittsburg does this. At this moment, Pitts is about $500,000 below the cap, With Vrb and Ham being $9,500,000 and about 28% of that at the cap deadline = $2,710,000 Deadline(Roughly), which means at 50%= $1,355,000 cap hit to the Penguins I think this is very easily obtainable and with Malkin, Crosby and Kessel taking up such a bite of the cap, this is the best, and probably the closest roster they are going to get to a Stanley Cup winning team For Vancouver, they stand the chance of resigning Hamhuis in the off season because Pittsburg will not be able to resign him, and get an improved pick in the 2nd (from a 3rd), while most likely getting a improved 1st rounder in 2017, as Pittsburgh will have to move salary, because of contracts....Pittsburgh I believe will be weaker in 2017 This is the best result Vancouver can hope for, and Pittsburgh gets 2 veterans that are starters ( 2nd line albeit) This makes them contenders or at least challengers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Im giving you a rep point you knowing that the cap is increased at the deadline since it is about 70% of the way though the season, good job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Should get 1st and B grade level prospect for Hamhuis alone, some will say that's overvaluing but I disagree. Dmen, particularly of Hammers ilk are worth a ransom at the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Hmm interesting idea to trade for a 1st in a season after a team potentially wins a championship, as they'll likely need to dismantle the roster and become weaker. Good call if that does happen. Depending on who they choose to dump, that may be a good deal since we could be in a transitioning period still. Wouldn't mind getting Scuderi, he'll be a UFA after next season and if he's still good and our team's still crappy we can trade him to a contender for another pick. At worst he can handle some of the tough minutes Hammer would leave behind. That being said, the overall return is still slightly underwhelming as both are quality veterans. Though they're having off-years of sorts they can still contribute when it counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 If Pittsburgh is the contender you think they'll be, that would mean the Canucks dealt Hamhuis, Vrbata and assuming the Canucks will be as bad as you're likely assuming, a high 3rd round pick - for the 25-30th and 55-60th overall picks. Sorry, but that is not the 'best result they can hope for' - and folks who think both these guys aren't worth a late 1st have their heads up their 'we suck' arses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Goblin Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 2 first rounders at the deadline minimum for those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I'd like to think Hamhuis + Vbrata + Higgins can snag us two 1st round picks. I don't think Hamhuis and Vbrata can do it alone though, we'll have to add a tertiary scorer like Higgins/Burrows or a 2nd/3rd rounder to get that value. Instead of picks I'd much rather make a package for a top defenceman, because God knows Benning isn't going to draft one when he really should, and they'll take far too long to develop properly while the rest of our young core speeds along. For whatever reason Pouliot is still in the AHL right now. He's the Penguins' first call up and is ripping up the AHL offensively. TO PIT: Hamhuis + Higgins + 2nd or 3rd round pick TO VAN: Derreck Pouliot Pittsburgh aren't using Pouliot, he's not cracking that defence so their current team loses nothing. This trade though gives them a veteran defenceman they've coveted for a long time, someone who can play 20 minutes as well as a great 3rd line grinder/PKer to help out their defensive game. The pick is just there to cover future losses. Vancouver get a puck moving lefty to play ahead of Hutton as a top defenceman. Pouliot is being developed the right way, nice and slowly, and is developing a better, all-rounded defensive game right now in the AHL. With Edler, Hutton, Sbisa and Pouliot our left side is 100% set for the next decade and the hand-over can begin perfectly. Edler and Hutton slowly exchange minutes over the next season, Pouliot exchanges minutes with Sbisa, hopefully Sbisa can play the right side and this defence is suddenly a lot better. We're maybe 1 top-4 right handed UFA signing off a Cup contending defence and that's not an exaggeration. Edler - Tanev Hutton - UFA Pouliot - Sbisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 54 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: TO PIT: Hamhuis + Higgins + 2nd or 3rd round pick TO VAN: Derreck Pouliot Canucks need a young defenceman like a Pouliot in their system badly, but this would be an overpayment by us I believe, not a massive overpayment, but an overpayment nevertheless. Perhaps worth it though since our organization doesn't currently have an asset like Pouliot right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A NEW BEGINNING Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 3 hours ago, Green Goblin said: 2 first rounders at the deadline minimum for those two. My thought to this trade is that, as of now Pittsburgh is 9th in their Conference, and 15th OA, with a lot of teams that are ahead of them playing very well. There is risk in what Vancouver does, but a calculated risk, Pittsburgh has a lot of Contracts to negotiate in the next 2 years, and will not want to be putting it into aging vets, depending on Hamhuis's mind set, he could easily come back, and my bet is he does. On the flip side of that that, Pittsburgh has a lot of money tied up in 5 players, and, my money is that they can't compete against the top clubs because of that.......I think moving up from a 2016- 3rd (68OA-a guess) to a 2016-45 OA-a guess), is a good move, and the same thing can be said of the 2017-1st, where it would be somewhere from 16 OA to 22OA, and I believe that gives the Penguins the benefit of the doubt. Like I said their current standings is 15 OA. To me, a 2017-15 OA + 2016 45 is > that 2 late 2016 24OA-30OA 1st rounders, if they can get that much If Benning can get more...great! But I was trying to split the middle of the opinions on here and give a reasonable trade value, with sound reasons why..... Vrbata's hat trick last night is a good sign, but it was Buffalo they played.....lets hope he keeps going My fear is we will push in a lame Pacific Division, does nothing but confuse the fact we should be a rebuilding team, and no way Vrbata resigns for 2 million less here, and there is serious question of Hamhuis's high end defensive abilities....I don't think we can wait, regardless of how close we come to a playoff spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I think we could get a better deal with a different team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyhee Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 11 hours ago, A NEW BEGINNING said: ... Here is the trade Vancouver Vrbata,Hamhuis (50% cap retained) + 2016 3rd Pittsburgh 2016 2nd and 2017 1st + salary dump ... So far nobody has commented on the "salary dump part of the proposal, which is not detailed. In this age cap management is relevant.. Without details on that salary dump it's hard to form a complete opinion about the proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 3 hours ago, Fanuck said: Canucks need a young defenceman like a Pouliot in their system badly, but this would be an overpayment by us I believe, not a massive overpayment, but an overpayment nevertheless. Perhaps worth it though since our organization doesn't currently have an asset like Pouliot right now. lol you actually think that's an overpayment? A declining d-man on an expiring contract, an over-the-hill bottom 6 forward and a 2nd or 3rd for one of the better young d-men with one of the highest ceilings in the game...and this is an overpayment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 28 minutes ago, Wild Sean Monahan said: lol you actually think that's an overpayment? A declining d-man on an expiring contract, an over-the-hill bottom 6 forward and a 2nd or 3rd for one of the better young d-men with one of the highest ceilings in the game...and this is an overpayment? Talk about LOL, you are implying that Pouliot is the best d-prospect in all of hockey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 ONE OF the highest ceilings, which indicates that no I don't think he's the best d prospect. Learn to read. He is absolutely without a doubt a hell of a lot better than you seem to valuate him at. take it with a grain of salt, but there's this. http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2015/11/03/rumors-kings-penguins-and-coyotes/ Quote Either a trade or a sudden realization of his immense talent by Derrick Pouliot would need to happen for this team for it to reach its ultimate goal Hamhuis would help their team, but there's not a chance in hell you'll see Pouliot in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 9 minutes ago, Wild Sean Monahan said: ONE OF the highest ceilings, which indicates that no I don't think he's the best d prospect. Learn to read. He is absolutely without a doubt a hell of a lot better than you seem to valuate him at. take it with a grain of salt, but there's this. http://www.mynhltraderumors.com/2015/11/03/rumors-kings-penguins-and-coyotes/ Hamhuis would help their team, but there's not a chance in hell you'll see Pouliot in return. heres the full quote for anyone who is interested On the Penguins … Seth Rorabaugh of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: (chat) Asked if barring any major injuries, does he see GM Jim Rutherford making any trades before the deadline? I would be shocked if Rutherford doesn’t pursue some sort of top four defenseman between now and the trade deadline. Asked if an upgrade to their defense is even necessary at this point. Either a trade or a sudden realization of his immense talent by Derrick Pouliot would need to happen for this team for it to reach its ultimate goal. They made the right move to allow Paul Martin to walk as a free agent but they miss a lot of what he offered and they have not replaced it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Yeah, provided the link and addressed the part on Paul Martin too. Yes, Hamhuis would help their team but the central point of this argument is that the proposed deal will not land you Pouliot. He's much more valuable than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlanB Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 There is no guarantee at this point that Puliot wouldn't turn out to be another Schultz. Who, while not a terrible player, isn't exactly a superstar. Werenski, Theodore, Nurse, Morrisey, Sanheim, Provorov, Hanifin......all as good or better prospects than Pouliot at this point. Maatta is the reason people think Puliot is expendeble and I'm not so sure they aren't wrong. Still haven't heard a single realistic reason why Hammer would waive his NTC to go anywhere else (other than our team isn't good and another team is better) considering it is common knowledge that he left a LOT on the table to sign here in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Monahan Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I still think his potential is too great for them to ship him out for that proposed return. Maybe 2 years ago it could've worked. edit: unless they really decide to go all in and win now. During the Kesler saga, rumours were gillis insisted on Maatta or Pouliot but Rutherford wouldn't do it. 2013-14 kesler probably had more value than current hammer IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 First the penguins 2nd round pick may not be in play as it was a conditional pick part of the Kessel deal. Unless were taking back our pick (which originally belonged to the ducks) On top of that the penguins first overall in 2017 may also not be in play as it was a conditional pick part of the Kessel deal. Second In the last 3 years the pens have only made 4 selections in the first 3 rounds. That’s 3 out of a possibly 9 picks. One of those picks was Kapanen (22nd overall) who they traded for Kessel) This year they’ve already giving up their first, conditional 2nd (gurantee if it goes to us) and their 3rd. Plus their next year first overall. That means in the span of 5 years (2013-2017) they’d have a total of zero first round pick, (3x) 2nd round picks, and (3x) 3rd round picks. And that’s not with a single pick before selection 44. The penguins are in a must win, but they also aren’t stupid enough to completely gut their entire future even more than they already have. And if you’re Vancouver. You trade them separately, don’t retain any cap space and get more in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretzky to Lemieux Posted December 9, 2015 Share Posted December 9, 2015 17 hours ago, A NEW BEGINNING said: OK, I checked the Vrbata/Hamhuis proposals and didn't see this one, and since there are so many, I hope I can get your attention on this one. Many have said that Vancouver can not get any firsts for either Hamhuis or Vrbata, but I disagree Here is the trade Vancouver Vrbata,Hamhuis (50% cap retained) + 2016 3rd Pittsburgh 2016 2nd and 2017 1st + salary dump Here is my reason why Pittsburg does this. At this moment, Pitts is about $500,000 below the cap, With Vrb and Ham being $9,500,000 and about 28% of that at the cap deadline = $2,710,000 Deadline(Roughly), which means at 50%= $1,355,000 cap hit to the Penguins I think this is very easily obtainable and with Malkin, Crosby and Kessel taking up such a bite of the cap, this is the best, and probably the closest roster they are going to get to a Stanley Cup winning team For Vancouver, they stand the chance of resigning Hamhuis in the off season because Pittsburg will not be able to resign him, and get an improved pick in the 2nd (from a 3rd), while most likely getting a improved 1st rounder in 2017, as Pittsburgh will have to move salary, because of contracts....Pittsburgh I believe will be weaker in 2017 This is the best result Vancouver can hope for, and Pittsburgh gets 2 veterans that are starters ( 2nd line albeit) This makes them contenders or at least challengers. Can someone explain to me why he divided the combined salary of Vrbata and Hamhuis by just 28 percent? I've searched online about the salary cap during the deadline but I couldn't find anything that says the salary gets reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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