Sven Baertschi | LW

[Mattrek]

Chronic irrational negativity seems like a Canadian franchise fan disease.

Especially Canucks fans.

[Mattrek]

Zetterberg and Datsyuk agree with you.

Oh god if we just traded a 2nd round for a future Datsyuk that'd be one of the steals of the decade.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Mattrek

[bigbadcanucks]

I'm not saying he will become a first line centre. I'm saying he has the potential. Right now, I don't see the point in thinking negative about it simply because nothing has happened yet. While it's easier for human nature to be negative about it, positive vibes tend to go farther.

I hope I didn't come across as negative on Baertschi...the sky's the limit for this kid and I'm glad JB was able to get him.

But like all prospects with a lot of promise, they haven't done squat in the NHL until they do it with regularity (to parrot Willie). Baertschi has shown glimpses of what he can be (and maybe that was part of the problem for him in Calgary...that is, he showed snippets of brilliance and the management/coaching staff thought that that is what he should be doing every single shift...i.e., sort of like the Kassian situation).

I'm with you on your bold prediction for Baertschi. He has all the tools to be a top flight forward in the NHL. Hopefully he's given the chance to show his wares and when given the chance he makes the most of it.

[snizzle_]

Svensational Barcheezy.

Yes... Just yes

[Mattrek]

Think about this one...Baertschi can just as easily be a waste of a second round pick...Baertschi can just as easily be a guy who struggles to land a spot on the Canucks roster as a second-line wannabe...and as you say, Baertschi can easily be the first line player. Anything is possible.

What Baertschi is is a high end prospect with a lot of untapped potential and a high ceiling. He obviously failed to live up to expectations of the Flames management, and being moved further down their depth chart precipitated a trade request. For what JB gave up, he got a very good prospect. I hope you're right with your bold prediction.

A 2nd rounder has like a 30% chance of getting to the NHL, this guy is NHL ready next year and even if he doesn't get to top 6 form he still is a NHL player. Every single commentator has said how much of a steal we got. I trust the hockey experts over one Canucks fan on the Internet. Calgary yo-yo'd him back and forth between the AHL and NHL and that's a one way ticket to screwing up a player's development. A young prospect needs consistency to be able to grow and even with all of the turbulence he still put up good points in the NHL for a rookie. Something tells me we're going to look back at this in 5 years as one of the best trades we've made.

[VegasCanuck]

So, for a 2nd rounder who may or may not ever have an impact in the NHL, (as stated above, 30% chance) we get a kid who was a #13 first round pick who has tons of upside, but may need a little attention from Travis Green to get his career back on track.

Having trouble understanding what people aren't liking about this, especially all those who wanted us to draft a small, kind of undersized player over Virtanen in the 2014 draft!

Looking forward to seeing how this kid does in our system!

[2SKATES1STICK]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/burkes-first-blast-aimed-at-baertschi/article14610874/

True to his word, Brian Burke kept a low-profile during his first fortnight with the Calgary Flames.

After joining the NHL team as president of hockey operations, he promised general manager Jay Feaster and head coach Bob Hartley would do most of the talking. Burke was in and out of town during September. He had a few charitable obligations to meet, bought a house and a pickup truck.

But on the eve of the 2013-14 season, Burke gave a progress report on what’s happened since he took over – and after suggesting a lot of people had assembled for not much news, he was his usual, predictably candid, self.

By far and away his most interesting observations came in relation to left winger Sven Baertschi, who, before this summer’s NHL entry draft, was the No. 1 prospect in the Flames organization.

Burke spent some time Monday evaluating the Joe Colborne trade – made last Saturday with his former team, the Toronto Maple Leafs – and gave a largely favourable report on the play of Sean Monahan, Calgary’s top pick in 2013. Then came an innocent question about Baertschi – and he got it from both barrels.

Clearly, the winger didn’t win over the new boss with his training camp performance.

Baertschi, the Flames’ first pick in the 2011 draft, has played parts of two seasons in the NHL. There were some people who thought the 20-year-old took too much for granted this September, and, as a result, didn’t compete nearly hard enough to earn his place. Baertschi did survive the final cuts, but the jury is still out on how much and how well he will play this year.

Burke is not above sending a message through the media and so, when asked what he’s learned thus far of Baertschi, he answered: “That I don’t know. That I don’t know. I’m not sure. … All I’ve seen so far is flashes of brilliance. Flashes of brilliance are fine if you’re working in the university, but they’re not much good to people in an NHL building.

“There are three zones in the ice surfaces in this league. I don’t see that he’s learned to play and compete in two of them. He’s got to learn there’s a clock in this league and there’s so many minutes in the game and that you’ve got to compete through all of it. I see this is a guy who’s focusing on one area [scoring] and even then, sporadically,” Burke said. “So I don’t know what we have.

“I’m not ready to quit on a young kid. I’m not ready to throw him under the bus here today and rip him, but I think you can tell from my comments that I see big holes and I see a lack of commitment that’s not going to get him anywhere in my books.”

It was vintage Brian Burke – all measured, not angry, just stating the facts as he sees them. If that doesn’t fire a light under Baertschi, it is hard to know what will.

Burke also had some interesting thoughts on Colborne, who came over to Calgary for a fourth-round pick. It was Burke, in his former role as Maple Leafs GM, who originally brought Colborne to Toronto (acquired from Boston in a package for defenceman Tomas Kaberle).

Burke said the Flames prize Colborne’s size – six-foot-five, 213 pounds – because they were too small a team across the board, but they were also well aware the 23-year-old isn’t “a black-and-blue” player.

This, by the way, can be a unique perspective in the industry of hockey, where teams almost always insist that if a player has size, he use it to play a crash-and-bang style. There are of course other ways of capitalizing on being that tall; being able to fend off checkers with your reach is one. (For example: David Steckel used his six-foot-five, 217-pound size and strength to evolve into one of the NHL’s best faceoff men for close to a decade.)

Burke wants Colborne to undergo what he described as a “religious conversion” and change his style to a checking role. If Colborne does so – and it wasn’t immediately clear if he knew that was what was expected of him – Burke predicted a long career ahead for the former first-round pick (16th overall in 2008).

It wasn’t a surprise the Flames kept Monahan on the NHL roster when they got down to numbers Monday – the 23-man squad doesn’t include Michael Cammalleri, who is on injured reserve because of a hand injury. Burke indicated Monahan’s stay would be predicated on how many minutes Hartley was prepared to play him.

He used, as an illustration, how the Maple Leafs handled prospect Morgan Rielly last year. Rielly didn’t stick because coach Randy Carlyle was only prepared to use him about eight minutes per night. That, according to Burke, wasn’t enough to enhance his development. Returning him to junior, where he could play constantly and in every situation, was the better choice for Rielly – and it may be for Monahan as well.

“There are two good outcomes,” Burke said, “and Sean’s going to dictate with his play early on … if he can justify the minutes in situational ice time that we would need to keep him here. … He hasn’t been as physical [in the preseason] as he was in junior, but that isn’t unusual for an 18-year-old. I was impressed. I am impressed.”

Edited March 3, 2015 by 2SKATES1STICK

[Erik Karlsson]

He's our best prospect behind Virtanen easily imo. I think this will really wake Shinkaruk up too.

This guy was a top 10 prospect a few years ago and has put up elite numbers everywhere he's played. He has way better numbers then Jensen and people still think he will become a top 6 player.

Still don't understand why people are whining about giving up a pick. We have a ton of players to get rid of during the trade deadline and we have to trade a goalie, which should get us some draft picks.

[Gstank29]

This might be an over evaluation but i kind of see Baertschi in the same boat as Seguin, to a degree. Both didn't fit what the organizations play style and have so called "attitude issue" But they both have high end skill. I think a trade is what baertschi needed and it will get him on the path to becoming a regular NHL'er.

Seguin has been quoted as saying that being traded out of Boston was the best thing that happened to him. Because it made him mature as a person and as a player. Not saying Baertschi is the next Seguin but i can see him becoming a 40-50 point producer in the NHL and maybe even 60+. But thats a bit of a stretch

[Hunter.S-Kerouac]

I found this article though a bit old to be enlightening.

He's had a significant amount of expectations placed on him for many reasons - being the team's "best" first round draft pick in a decade, his 5-game call up, the 2PPG draft+1 season, etc.

But there's an increasing amount of concerns for the 2011 draftee coming from fans and management alike. Should we be worried?

The Issues

There seems to be three big problems with Baertschi: first, his injury problems. People love to throw around the term "injury-prone" without basis in reality, and I believe this is one of those cases. Since being drafted in 2011, these are his injuries:

Concussion

Neck Injury

Hip Flexor Strain

"Lower Body Injury"

So, a muscle strain and two dirty hits (especially the one he suffered last year while with the Heat) makes Sven Baertschi injury-prone. I find that asinine. Hip flexor strains happen to everyone and concussions/neck injuries are very rarely the fault of the player who sustains them. Certainly, there's an understanding about how one concussion leaves you vulnerable to more going forward but every player in the NHL has that to worry about.

To me, the above list doesn't really make me think that you have to view his time missed in an overly negative light. I'm thinking the tag "injury-prone" is mostly because of his size and how people equate that with toughness/health in the NHL more than anything.

The second issue is that some, most notably Brian Burke, are disappointed with his defensive play. As everyone knows, the best defense usually includes a significant amount of offence - and no, I don't mean points. Producing shots (or, rather, possessing the puck) makes it easier to prevent goals - and Baertschi's positive Corsi Rel suggests that the team prevents goals better when he's on the ice rather than when he's off it.

In terms of traditional "defending", sure, maybe he doesn't hit or block shots and sometimes during the preseason he got lost in the defensive zone. But he's playing against the best players in the world as a 20-year old and basing a player's defensive quality in preseason games seems like it would be difficult for a number of reasons (sample size, quality of opponents and teammates, adaptation to new situations).

Lastly, his scoring pace seems to be lacking to some. Let's take a look at his comparables for his 20 year old season (i.e., last year).

First, his draft comparables - forwards picked within +/-10 spots of Baertschi who played in the CHL and scored within .1PPG since 2007. This is to find out what players with Baertschi's pedigree did in their 20 year old season.

DY NHLE

20 NHLE

Matt Duchene 34.0 39.6

Zach Hamill 33.2 22.2

Angelo Esposito 32.4 9.0

Scott Glennie 31.3 19.1

Brayden Schenn 30.9 27.3

Cody Hodgson 30.8 20.8

Brett Connolly 29.2 37.8

Mikkel Boedker 29.0 36.0

Average 31.4 26.7

Sven Baertschi 31.7 39.9

Not only does Baertschi do better than the average in his draft season (despite the fact that 6 of the 8 players listed were top-10 picks), he had the best 20 year old season of any of his comparables. That doesn't exactly scream "worry!" to me.

Second, his NHL comparables - these are guys who have all of the above qualifications, except instead of Draft Year CHL PPG we'll use 20YO NHL PPG.

20 PPG

Jordan Staal .60

Brandon Saad .60

Milan Lucic .59

Jeff Skinner .57

Brandon Sutter .56

Sergei Kostitsyn .52

Jamie Benn .50

Peter Mueller .50

Josh Bailey .48

Gabriel Landeskog .47

Bobby Ryan .43

Nazem Kadri .41

Average .51

Sven Baertschi .50

Baertschi is a little below average here but 8 out of 12 of these guys are or will be first liners in the NHL, so that's not much to be worried about.

Regardless, once again, Baertschi is right where his peers are and were.

Conclusion

In short, no need to worry. He's only 20 (21 this weekend) and here's a list of players who have scored better at the NHL level in their 20-year old seasons. That, along with what's above, tells me that he's right on track. Hell, he might even be a little ahead without considering his lateish birthday.

Baertschi is basically in the same boat as most blue-chip prospects: significant offensive skills that have peeked through, a harsh adjustment to the defensive realities of the game and questions about being physically NHL-ready. Every blue-chipper has been described that way at some point and all blue-chippers to come will be described that way.

I think there are two main thought processes for most people when it comes to forward prospects: there's the "if the guy hasn't scored or doesn't score well, he's generally a project and deserves a couple years at a lower level to figure it out" type of thinking and the "if the guy has and does score well he should be able to translate that into NHL-level scoring because all of these other first rounders did it'" type. Both reek with confirmation bias among other things but neither are correct. Baertschi has rough edges that need smoothing, but so does every other youngster in the game, to one degree or another.

Be patient with this guy, Flames fans.

http://flamesnation.ca/2013/10/2/should-we-be-worried-about-sven-baertschi

Edited March 3, 2015 by Hunter.S-Kerouac

[Honeydew]

So much for not trading draft picks, but I guess again, Benning is fast forwarding these picks into more ready players. He seems to be trending in the wrong direction though.

Benning said if there's a prospect that matches his profile who's been developed a bit but stuck in a logjam will be considered for a trade with our picks. We're not trending the wrong direction by stock piling up more prospects for ourselves to ensure our future. Benning is addressing the fact that our LW/RW positions are very low and we require more prospects to bump them up into respective numbers.

I am definitely looking forward to what Sven brings to the Canucks especially having experience already in the West makes him understand what he needs to do to succeed within the western conference. Green will mould him into the proper top 6 winger that plays with skill into our type of system and we'll probably see him sooner then we think.

[VegasCanuck]

He's our best prospect behind Virtanen easily imo. I think this will really wake Shinkaruk up too.

This guy was a top 10 prospect a few years ago and has put up elite numbers everywhere he's played. He has way better numbers then Jensen and people still think he will become a top 6 player.

Still don't understand why people are whining about giving up a pick. We have a ton of players to get rid of during the trade deadline and we have to trade a goalie, which should get us some draft picks.

I'm not sure I'd say that Shinkaruk isn't awake. He's being taught the same things that they need Baertschi to learn, 200 foot game, not just playing in the offensive zone.

That is the focus that Green is teaching all our guys down there. If he can get that message through to SB, we may have a good future first liner.

Would love to see in September, a test line of McCann centering Virtanen and Baertschi. That would be a lot of speed and power up front and McCann and Virtanen's nasty streaks might really open up the ice for Baertschi.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

I know that he's not as small as some idiots have claimed, but I like "Little Baer."

[Robongo]

He's our best prospect behind Virtanen easily imo. I think this will really wake Shinkaruk up too.

This guy was a top 10 prospect a few years ago and has put up elite numbers everywhere he's played. He has way better numbers then Jensen and people still think he will become a top 6 player.

Still don't understand why people are whining about giving up a pick. We have a ton of players to get rid of during the trade deadline and we have to trade a goalie, which should get us some draft picks.

McCann says hello

[tyhee]

Question for those in the know...are Jensen, Corrado and Baertschi subject to waivers next season? Man, I miss capgeek.

If this has been answered yet I haven't noticed it.

Baertschi-Yes, subject to waivers in 2015-16.

Jensen-No, exempt for 2015-16; subject to waivers for 2016-17.

Corrado-This one is interesting. People have posted on other threads that Corrado would be eligible for waivers next season but I am not seeing why he would be. He signed in Sepember, 2011 as an 18 year old (source http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=589591)%C2'> would have 5 exempt seasons (CBA s. 13.4) which would make him exempt through 2015-16. However, s. 13.4 oif the CBA also says:

"For purposes of Regular Waivers, the five (5) year exemption for an 18 year old

skater and the four (4) year exemption for a 19 year old skater shall both be reduced to three (3)

years commencing the first season that the 18 or 19 year old skater plays in eleven (11) NHL

Games or more. The next two (2) seasons, regardless of whether the skater plays any NHL

Games in either season, shall count as the second and third years toward satisfying the

exemption."

So, the 5 years gets reduced to 3 years commencing the 1st season Corrado plays in 11 or more NHL games.

According to hockeydb Corrado played 3 regular season and 4 playoff games in 2012-13, not enough to shorten his eligiblity. He played 15 NHL games in 2013-14, but 3 years from that season still takes him through 2015-16.

Corrado's page at hockey-reference.com shows the same number of games in 2012-13, 3 regular season and 4 playoff.

Unless there's an error in the number of games listed for Corrado, it seems to me he's exempt from waivers next season.

[VegasCanuck]

I know that he's not as small as some idiots have claimed, but I like "Little Baer."

Exactly, 5'11" 190 lbs Patrick Kane is 5'11" 181 lbs, he doesn't seem to have much of a problem doing damage against us in the league.

Everyone seems pretty excited about Shinkaruk at 5'11" 175 lbs.

St. Louis at 5'8" 180 lbs doesn't seem to have much problem competing.

If he was center, you might want a little bigger size, but his job is to make plays and score goals. Put him out there with size and he should be fine! We have lots of size in the system, we need more guys who can skate and score in the space our size guys create!

[Maniwaki Canuck]

Going over the many pages of posts on the Calgary section of HF Boards, the concerns raised about his defense seemed to be about not always getting back or taking a direct line to his assignment when he's caught up ice, turning up-ice prematurely, cherry-picking, etc. Assuming that there is at least some validity to these concerns, I think being reunited with Green is a great first step in addressing them, given the previous relation they've had and how he's treating everyone else in Utica. Realistically, Baertschi has to be aiming for a 3rd line role on the Canucks, one that will have defensive responsibilities but offensive opportunities too. Since Baertschi played an offensive role for Green when they were in Portland, they can resume that part of their relationship, build his confidence back up, but also add on whatever system- and defensive-remedial coaching he needs.

[Maniwaki Canuck]

He's been known as an emotional player, and apparently he wasnt as happy in Calgary anymore. I think that could have something to do with the point production. He could really breakout with a fresh start here in Utica/Vancouver. With the Benning comments on him, I think this kid will be special for us.

This looks like it could be true. If so, being around our vets on the big club should help him deal with the emotional valleys that come with the game. But the youthful peaks can help the vets too. Kassian's effect on the twins (protection factor aside) is an example of this. It's all part of the ecology of a successful club, and why injecting youth into our lineup has been a good thing this year.

[aGENT]

Exactly, 5'11" 190 lbs Patrick Kane is 5'11" 181 lbs, he doesn't seem to have much of a problem doing damage against us in the league.

Everyone seems pretty excited about Shinkaruk at 5'11" 175 lbs.

St. Louis at 5'8" 180 lbs doesn't seem to have much problem competing.

If he was center, you might want a little bigger size, but his job is to make plays and score goals. Put him out there with size and he should be fine! We have lots of size in the system, we need more guys who can skate and score in the space our size guys create!

In his prime he'll likely be around 195-205lbs too.

Not worried about his size at all.

[TimberWolf]

I'll bet they call him 'Barts' or 'Barty'. We'll find out soon enough!