Goal:thecup Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: He was ready on one of the weakest d cores in the league last year. JB has went out and filled this team with more depth adding three UFA’s (two of which are legit NHLers) add in our superstar prospect. And that’s 4 rosters spots added where as we really only subtracted Hutton. (Schenn wouldn’t really count) training camp isn’t long enough to show a player is fully ready, that’s why junior players get the 9 games. Just look at what happened to McCann who earned his way on the team. By Christmas time is was clear he should have went back. If Canucks keep OJ over someone else and we lose that player to waivers Canucks just lost depth that we WILL need when injuries start to hit. Joulevi needs ice time. Without injuries he’s not getting more TOI than Myers, Tanev, Hughes, Edler, Stecher which means he’s getting bottom pairing depth TOI and that’s not a place you want a developing player to learn. No players has every been hindered by over cooking in Juniors. Based on what. Joulevi’s played 18 games in the AHL and missed the last 10 months. You’re making a presumption that he will be ready and that’s a lofty presumption. The goal and decision on what canucks do with OJ after training camp is with his long term development in mind, this seems to be forgotten by many. Yes, the presumption I am making is that OJ will be ready and will outplay the competition. (See above for "The Big If".) The point I am making is that "if" Juolevi is ready and outplays his competition, that I think (aka imo) it would be wrong, and it could send the wrong message to send him to Utica. If he earns a spot on the roster, I say, 'Don't ice an inferior team because we might lose a Biega or Schaller or some other player that has NOT outplayed his competition'. Hold every player to a new, higher standard, and if they get beat out for a position, so be it. We're not going to get very much in trade for anybody who can't make the Canucks anyway, so why undermine genuine roster competition? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said: Yes, the presumption I am making is that OJ will be ready and will outplay the competition. (See above for "The Big If".) The point I am making is that "if" Juolevi is ready and outplays his competition, that I think (aka imo) it would be wrong, and it could send the wrong message to send him to Utica. If he earns a spot on the roster, I say, 'Don't ice an inferior team because we might lose a Biega or Schaller or some other player that has NOT outplayed his competition'. Hold every player to a new, higher standard, and if they get beat out for a position, so be it. We're not going to get very much in trade for anybody who can't make the Canucks anyway, so why undermine genuine roster competition? I agree, he is 21 and only six players drafted in the first round in 2016 havent played an NHL game. If he earns a top 6 spot give it to him. I wouldnt mind even giving him 5 games with the big club even if they do plan on sending him down. Hanging out with guys like Petey/Hughes and seeing their work ethic will only help him. Edited September 10, 2019 by Bure_Pavel 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 54 minutes ago, spook007 said: The positivity in this thread is catchy.... Great to see so much joy with OJ being back playing. One would assume that after nearly a year out and yet to play in the NHL, OJ would be starting in AHL . On top of getting back to game fitness, the NHL is still a step up from where he was... RJ said it best in one of his tweets, that OJ was phenomenal, when there was no pressure on him... Why then throw him before the wolves, before he has asserted himself, that he is capable of playing 100% with confidence.... He'll start in the AHL. Doesn't matter how long he plays in the AHL, as long as he progresses to become, what everyone hopes for. He is still only 21 years old, and should hopefully play on our defence the next 10+ years. Only issue I have is that it seems to be swapping from one extreme (terrible pick, bust, etc) to the other extreme (he's going to get a spot out of camp, it's time for him to make it to the NHL, etc). I haven't kept track if it's the same people, but it just seems to be setting themselves up for disappointment from the other end. People are going to start complaining about how the team isn't playing their top prospects and how Utica doesn't know how to develop and so on. People just need to let things progress naturally. I think it's best the OJ gets out of the spot light for a bit (thanks to other prospects stepping up) and we will get a steady dman in no time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said: I agree, he is 21 and only six players drafted in the first round in 2016 havent played an NHL game. If he earns a top 6 spot give it to him. I wouldnt mind even giving him 5 games with the big club even if they do plan on sending him down. Hanging out with guys like Petey/Hughes and seeing their work ethic will only help him. There are roster rules. We are going to waive someone only to give him 5 games with the big club. If he somehow plays lights out, he still likely will be sent down until hopefully we can make a trade or if an injury arises. This happened when Stecher arrived, but I think he got back in earlier because of injuries otherwise he might've been down longer. Who cares if he hasn't played a game yet. Only 10 of those players have played for more than a season (and that includes Puljujarvi and Thompson who haven't amounted to much). Playing NHL games already 3 years after the draft doesn't guarantee any success in the NHL. He's going to develop when he does. We don't need to rush him back after being off for almost a year. He will get his call ups in due time and he's got training camp to see these guys in action on how to make it at the NHL level. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said: I wouldnt mind even giving him 5 games with the big club even if they do plan on sending him down. Roster limits and cap say hi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said: Yes, the presumption I am making is that OJ will be ready and will outplay the competition. (See above for "The Big If".) The point I am making is that "if" Juolevi is ready and outplays his competition, that I think (aka imo) it would be wrong, and it could send the wrong message to send him to Utica. How do you determine he’s ready? His skill set is different than say a guy Benn so how would you determine that he’s outplayed him and deserves a spot over him. This isn’t minor hockey, a roster is built for different roles. So if you are really looking at things. OJ’s comp is edler and Hughes on the left side top 4. and sorry that’s not happening. It doesn’t do his development any good playing bottom pairing depth D. He needs ice time and confidence and canucks will already have one rookie D they will be working to fight match ups with. The only way OJ makes the team out of camp is if he is mover and above the canucks best D player in camp. Quote If he earns a spot on the roster, I say, 'Don't ice an inferior team because we might lose a Biega or Schaller or some other player that has NOT outplayed his competition'. Beiga and schaller aren’t even in consideration as they are getting waived regardless of Joulevi. We’re talking losing fantanberg and likely making Stecher sit in the press box. Or losing a forward like motte or goldy.....those depth pieces that become big factors in us being in or out the playoffs. All for what... So that OJ can play opening night? He’s going to play this year. Have some patiences. There is zero harm for Joulevi getting some games in Utica. Again he hasn’t played a game in 10 months, he’s going to take time to get back into game pace. Let him build so that when he does get the call up, there’s no doubt if he’s ready or not. And he can stick with the club. Edited September 10, 2019 by ForsbergTheGreat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 2 hours ago, aGENT said: I think they don't hesitate to waive any number of forwards, including Eriksson (he's going to need to play his ARSE off IMO to not get waived). Goldy would likely clear in the usual pre season waiver melee should they choose to send him down/he fails to earn a top 13 spot. And if not, we have LOADS of middle 6 depth (so much that we still likely need to trade another guy to get Roussel back in eventually), that the guy that couldn't beat out Leivo/Motte/Schaller/Eriksson, on what is likely one of his last chances, will be wished luck with his new team/not a big loss. Zero hesitation to waiving whomever of Erikkson/Schaller either (though I'd be pretty surprised if we waived Leivo/Motte in favour of either of the other two, they're also 'possible'). The first two almost certainly clear Gaudette's almost certainly going down regardless IMO. The best he can do is show them that they can trade Sutter sooner than later and play big minutes/hone his offensive game in Utica. Small chance they move Sutter to Beagle's wing and let Gaudette C a 4th 'offensive' line. But again, that means waiving someone else they aren't likely to. Given the amount and frequency of injuries to our D every year, and how stellar of an 8th D Biega is, I doubt Benning will be in any rush to nix any of that depth that he's finally built up. Heck of a lot easier to replace F's anyway should numerous injuries occur. We can always find a guy on waivers or pick up another Leivo for peanuts (never mind the already pretty solid F depth we have anyway). I agree with most of that...but Biega would clear waivers ...for sure and Benning, as well as all the pundits think Erikkson will be with the team...he better play his arse off...or we will all be howling. All of this will not doubt be moot points once the season starts and the injuries as well...I just hope AG shows he has the stuff to stick and force a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post theo5789 Posted September 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: How do you determine he’s ready? Points obviously. If OJ gets 2 points in 5 preseason games and Benn gets 1, then it's time to waive Benn. Duh. 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 36 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said: Yes, the presumption I am making is that OJ will be ready and will outplay the competition. (See above for "The Big If".) The point I am making is that "if" Juolevi is ready and outplays his competition, that I think (aka imo) it would be wrong, and it could send the wrong message to send him to Utica. If he earns a spot on the roster, I say, 'Don't ice an inferior team because we might lose a Biega or Schaller or some other player that has NOT outplayed his competition'. Hold every player to a new, higher standard, and if they get beat out for a position, so be it. We're not going to get very much in trade for anybody who can't make the Canucks anyway, so why undermine genuine roster competition? I feel the same way...Biega would clear waivers so we could keep Oli up without losing any D. to waivers...but I also think we are going to go with 7 D. this year...so he will have to go down until the first injury...so 5 minutes after training camp opens... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, aGENT said: Roster limits and cap say hi. His cap hit is $863,333, and I have no problem sending Beiga down at the start of season as not likely to be picked up right after teams finalized their rosters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said: I agree with most of that...but Biega would clear waivers ...for sure and Benning, as well as all the pundits think Erikkson will be with the team...he better play his arse off...or we will all be howling. All of this will not doubt be moot points once the season starts and the injuries as well...I just hope AG shows he has the stuff to stick and force a trade. 1 minute ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said: I feel the same way...Biega would clear waivers so we could keep Oli up without losing any D. to waivers...but I also think we are going to go with 7 D. this year...so he will have to go down until the first injury...so 5 minutes after training camp opens... It does OJ no good to sit in the press box as #8D whether we waive or lose Biega. Every year someone tries to debate me on this. It frankly doesn't matter if someone's slightly better than Biega, Biega is the perfect spare D and it does a prospect no good to sit in the press box. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said: His cap hit is $863,333, and I have no problem sending Beiga down at the start of season as not likely to be picked up right after teams finalized their rosters. To what end? Let OJ go down, get settled and PLAY. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, aGENT said: It does OJ no good to sit in the press box as #8D whether we waive or lose Biega. Every year someone tries to debate me on this. It frankly doesn't matter if someone's slightly better than Biega, Biega is the perfect spare D and it does a prospect no good to sit in the press box. I am not debating you...Oli either makes the team out of camp....likely due to injuries if he does...and plays top 4 minutes within a few games... OR... They send him down and he earns his way up by November sometime and is playing top 4 minutes by Dec. That's a big old ...Just Watch on that! Oh...and Biega clears for sure ...Goldy doesn't clear waivers so I still think we go with 7 D. Edited September 10, 2019 by Rollieo Del Fuego 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Just now, aGENT said: To what end? Let OJ go down, get settled and PLAY. Reward him for his efforts in camp and give him some NHL experience/additional motivation. This would be contingent on him having a great camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: To what end? Let OJ go down, get settled and PLAY. this thing is going to sort itself out. Its already been decided he's heading to Utica, so barring some kind of trade or injury thats where he's going to be. Even if he has a spectacular camp, who's he going to beat out for a job in the top 3 pairs? no one. And it makes no sense to sit him as the 7/8. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat land fish Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 If he’s one of the best 6 he stays and if not it is Utica for now. All of our other top picks have been allowed to play when they are ready Olli will be no different. If he needs more development he will start in Utica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 39 minutes ago, theo5789 said: Only issue I have is that it seems to be swapping from one extreme (terrible pick, bust, etc) to the other extreme (he's going to get a spot out of camp, it's time for him to make it to the NHL, etc). I haven't kept track if it's the same people, but it just seems to be setting themselves up for disappointment from the other end. People are going to start complaining about how the team isn't playing their top prospects and how Utica doesn't know how to develop and so on. People just need to let things progress naturally. I think it's best the OJ gets out of the spot light for a bit (thanks to other prospects stepping up) and we will get a steady dman in no time. This... give him the time needed... Don't pressure him until he's ready... Game time is what's needed. Not to go up against the best before ready... 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, spook007 said: This... give him the time needed... Don't pressure him until he's ready... Game time is what's needed. Not to go up against the best before ready... The guy could be ready, all his peers are playing at the NHL level already. If his skating, strength, and IQ all look like they are at an NHL level he could surprise out of camp. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Bure_Pavel said: The guy could be ready, all his peers are playing at the NHL level already. If his skating, strength, and IQ all look like they are at an NHL level he could surprise out of camp. After only 18 games in the AHL and after is it 8 months out of the game with injury, I would be very surprised if he was ready to step straight on to the NHL roster...especially with the summer additions. His skating might be ok, but would be surprised if his game strength and IQ, doesn't needs sharpened after being out for this length of time....especially bearing in mind he has yet to play a single NHL game. With regards to his peers, it's really totally irrelevant. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bure_Pavel Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, spook007 said: After only 18 games in the AHL and after is it 8 months out of the game with injury, I would be very surprised if he was ready to step straight on to the NHL roster...especially with the summer additions. His skating might be ok, but would be surprised if his game strength and IQ, doesn't needs sharpened after being out for this length of time....especially bearing in mind he has yet to play a single NHL game. With regards to his peers, it's really totally irrelevant. The biggest thing when we drafted him was that he would need extra time to physically mature. He was likely able to work on other stuff while recovering from surgery, that will help him this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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