Nucker 67 Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 13 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Love Horvat don't get me wrong, but he isn't even close to where Kesler was. People won't admit it because everyone hates him now but he left the biggest hole in our team by far. Really? Horvat, at 20 last year, got 40 points in 82 games (16 goals) Kesler, at 21, got 23 points in 82 games (10 goals) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 8 minutes ago, Alflives said: Well, it's most likely because our team's core is old and stale, and has been for several years. We haven't had young players to get excited about, other than Bo. Fans here were very excited about CoHo, and he really wasn't very good at all. So now that we (truly) have a few potential young future stars to go along with Bo, we get excited. Do you ever sharpen that avatar? I think it's getting dull. You need to watch the short film his avatar is taken from. That is some weird business, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said: Similarly, as much as its logical Ericsson will start with the Twins... In a perfect world the Twins will retire closer to Chelios's age than at the end of this contract. And will have long been bypassed on the depth chart. I don't see why we should "avoid" acquiring a good player just because the Twins are getting old. I think its obvious we'll see Loui on the top PP. But I highly suspect Hansen will still spend part of the year 5 on 5 with the Twins. And I would guess secondary scoring would see a huge boost if we gave Horvat a player of Ericsson's ilk? Lets not forget, he's also a great two way winger. No reason he cannot be part of defensive match ups that head up ice. Do I believe he will be a full time winger with Horvat? No! But I am saying the coach will move parts around to spread scoring. And this guy was signed for 6 years. I am also saying he is intended to make the whole team better until some drafted top 6 forwards are fully developed. Excellent post. Did you hear surfing is in the Tokyo Olympics? Off topic, but too important to leave out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Horvat is an ox, and Kesler is a seal. A great big diving seal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: You need to watch the short film his avatar is taken from. That is some weird business, to say the least. "A [desi] by another name still smells [...]" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 17 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Just taking a direct quote from Trevor Linden. Said Gudbranson displaced Hamhuis. Even Linden knows that's out of context. Yes acquiring Gudbranson left us with a decision as to whether we should occupy a roster spot with Hammer. But Gudbranson is filling a completely different hole, and role, in the line up. Hammer is being directly replaced by Hutton. 2LD. And we are making room medium term for Tryamkin as 3LD with Sbisa to buffer. I also would bet they tried to move Sbisa before they let Hammer walk. Blame Sbisa, not Gudbranson that Hammer is gone is my take... (I cant say I disagree this part is not at least a bit tragic. At least not without having got some return at the deadline. But that's a different argument.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: "A [desi] by another name still smells [...]" LaBamba isn't a desi. Far from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 11 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Kesler spending time in the AHL did nothing but good for him. If it was up to me Horvat would have put his time in too with another year of Jr. What has he missed? Is A -50 on the back of his hockey card and 2 dismal seasons really worth it? You don't think Horvat has grown by leaps and bounds as a player? Another year in junior wouldn't have done much. Maybe some time in AHL could have helped, but maybe it wouldn't have done anything, we'll never know. Putting up 40 points as a 20 year old while being thrown to the wolves is pretty impressive no matter how you slice it. His plus/minus doesn't mean a whole lot when you look at how bad the team was last season. He'll be much better off with Sutter ahead of him this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 lol I'd chalk this up as Toronto media mumbo jumbo crap. Edmonton and Toronto has it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: You don't think Horvat has grown by leaps and bounds as a player? Another year in junior wouldn't have done much. Maybe some time in AHL could have helped, but maybe it wouldn't have done anything, we'll never know. Putting up 40 points as a 20 year old while being thrown to the wolves is pretty impressive no matter how you slice it. His plus/minus doesn't mean a whole lot when you look at how bad the team was last season. He'll be much better off with Sutter ahead of him this season. Well you never know where Desjardins will play him. He might put him on the 4th line C if he start's scoring to much..getting away from his defensive game and toss Granlund up to 3rd line C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, Alflives said: "A [desi] by another name still smells [...]" Weren't you and Desi buddies at one time? Heavily invested in tank nation at one point anyway... Separate reply ^ Did not know about Tokyo? I do know its a bright sunny winters day. Low tide is up at Phillip Island in 4 hours. That's where I will be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 7 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: LaBamba isn't a desi. Far from it. I liked desi. Ritchie Valens was one of my favourite singers. And pencils are needed to score my bowling card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Trymakin has some tantalizing attributes. But yes, way too early yet, thus we have a lot of bodies on defence and 3.6m salary tied up as insurance Also agree that Virtannen has a lot to prove/learn/develop. Time with Green in Utica could be essential for his future. If fans are guilty of gushing over a player that plays in a handful of meaningless games and looks good, well we aren't alone. Cough...Nylander... Cough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 4 hours ago, LaBamba said: Some good points, but Anaheim and Detriot had young superstars to start the retool or build on the fly with. We have good young players but not those Scoring title/ award night caliber players. We are squeezing one last drop out of the Sedin's before they retire. I think we can all agree that this year we didn't draft a potential Superstar. Next year will possibly be a 10-15ish overall pick in a projected weak draft, chances are the superstar isn't coming from there either. So now we are onto 2018 with no Grade A top line Sedin replacement in our system. Boeser could be in that tier but he still needs a 1C to play with. This will be some very dark times. When I see us trading away McCann's, Frosling's Shinkurak's and 2nd rounders for player that can play right now. I worry about life after the Sedin's. And how all of these moves are only pushing this age gap later. I would sooner deal with the hole now than in 2018-22 after the Sedin's are gone. Pretty much nailed it and +1 for the brutal honesty. It's almost an impossible situation, compared to DET who lost Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, and of course the 2002 crew (hard to imagine, the cap is almost at where their payroll was back then..) Hull, Robatiale and Hasek...but had Datsyuk just joining their team, Lidstrom just starting his string of Norris trophies at 30 (ahem because Bourque and Coffey retired) and Zetterberg about to take the reigns, and a hugely ignored excellent goalie in Osgood (his winning percentage is insane, and just over 400 career wins...)...and ANA lost Pronger, Neidermayer, Kariya (who was already out of the picture but a big part of their previous core until Steven rocked his world) but had two kids just coming on after a dominate showing during the lock-out in the AHL in Getzlaf and Perry.... When Linden/Bure/Mogilny etc..were leaving we had Naslund, Bertuzzi, Jovo - three stars - and good goaltending in Cloutier, and good supplements like Ohlund... When Naslund was winding down we had the Twins ready to take over.... Now...dark days are coming indeed. Management really has no choice but to double down on the Sedins and ride them for all they are worth, and hope like hell that two or three of our prospects and future picks can take over when they are retired. Maybe they leave to a contender and we get a few picks out of them in a couple years....I understand why Benning is doing what he is doing, trying to plug holes and make a playoff push with a new look..but the window is almost closed and what's out there now certainly doesn't look as promising as DET an ANA last re-build cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 32 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Love Horvat don't get me wrong, but he isn't even close to where Kesler was. People won't admit it because everyone hates him now but he left the biggest hole in our team by far. If you are referring to where Kesler was when he was traded/held the team for ransom, then yes. Horvat is far ahead of where Kesler was at the same age. Horvat looks like he could surpass Kesler in many ways. Bo has the ability to use his linemates, and I feel his upside is that as a decent top center on our team Currently our Kesler substitute is Sutter, and we need to see him play a full season to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 4 hours ago, J.R. said: Firstly it's FAR too early to tell if there's any 'stars' in our prospect group. We very well could have a few already. Or not. We'll find out in due time. I'd say Boesser, Horvat Virtanen, Juolevi, Hutton and Demko all have better than decent chances of becoming future top 6 'star' forwards, top 4 'star' D and a starting goalie down the line. Second, the Sedins still have 2-4 years left. That's 2-4 years to draft/trade/sign talent. Given how much Benning has accomplished in the last couple years, I'm feeling pretty confident there that he can find a few more 'stars' in that period. Third, when the Sedins do retire and your 'nightmare' comes true and the team is a top end talent-less wreck, guess where we'll likely be drafting for a couple years? We'll be able to add some likely talented, young top players to a very solid, young foundation of guys. Oh the horror! 3 minutes ago, IBatch said: Pretty much nailed it and +1 for the brutal honesty. It's almost an impossible situation, compared to DET who lost Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, and of course the 2002 crew (hard to imagine, the cap is almost at where their payroll was back then..) Hull, Robatiale and Hasek...but had Datsyuk just joining their team, Lidstrom just starting his string of Norris trophies at 30 (ahem because Bourque and Coffey retired) and Zetterberg about to take the reigns, and a hugely ignored excellent goalie in Osgood (his winning percentage is insane, and just over 400 career wins...)...and ANA lost Pronger, Neidermayer, Kariya (who was already out of the picture but a big part of their previous core until Steven rocked his world) but had two kids just coming on after a dominate showing during the lock-out in the AHL in Getzlaf and Perry.... When Linden/Bure/Mogilny etc..were leaving we had Naslund, Bertuzzi, Jovo - three stars - and good goaltending in Cloutier, and good supplements like Ohlund... When Naslund was winding down we had the Twins ready to take over.... Now...dark days are coming indeed. Management really has no choice but to double down on the Sedins and ride them for all they are worth, and hope like hell that two or three of our prospects and future picks can take over when they are retired. Maybe they leave to a contender and we get a few picks out of them in a couple years....I understand why Benning is doing what he is doing, trying to plug holes and make a playoff push with a new look..but the window is almost closed and what's out there now certainly doesn't look as promising as DET an ANA last re-build cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 28 minutes ago, DeNiro said: You don't think Horvat has grown by leaps and bounds as a player? Another year in junior wouldn't have done much. Maybe some time in AHL could have helped, but maybe it wouldn't have done anything, we'll never know. Putting up 40 points as a 20 year old while being thrown to the wolves is pretty impressive no matter how you slice it. His plus/minus doesn't mean a whole lot when you look at how bad the team was last season. He'll be much better off with Sutter ahead of him this season. It would have given us another year of ECL, that alone is worth something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 1 minute ago, IBatch said: Pretty much nailed it and +1 for the brutal honesty. It's almost an impossible situation, compared to DET who lost Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, and of course the 2002 crew (hard to imagine, the cap is almost at where their payroll was back then..) Hull, Robatiale and Hasek...but had Datsyuk just joining their team, Lidstrom just starting his string of Norris trophies at 30 (ahem because Bourque and Coffey retired) and Zetterberg about to take the reigns, and a hugely ignored excellent goalie in Osgood (his winning percentage is insane, and just over 400 career wins...)...and ANA lost Pronger, Neidermayer, Kariya (who was already out of the picture but a big part of their previous core until Steven rocked his world) but had two kids just coming on after a dominate showing during the lock-out in the AHL in Getzlaf and Perry.... When Linden/Bure/Mogilny etc..were leaving we had Naslund, Bertuzzi, Jovo - three stars - and good goaltending in Cloutier, and good supplements like Ohlund... When Naslund was winding down we had the Twins ready to take over.... Now...dark days are coming indeed. Management really has no choice but to double down on the Sedins and ride them for all they are worth, and hope like hell that two or three of our prospects and future picks can take over when they are retired. Maybe they leave to a contender and we get a few picks out of them in a couple years....I understand why Benning is doing what he is doing, trying to plug holes and make a playoff push with a new look..but the window is almost closed and what's out there now certainly doesn't look as promising as DET an ANA last re-build cycle. I remember the Post Bure/Linden era and it was the worst stretch of hockey this franchise ever had. There was 3 years of real sad times, with talk of the team being moved. Burke did get the twins, but we did not have success until 2-3 years after Messier left. The only other time like that in team history was just as Pat Quin took over. To me, this does not feel the same. The twins can still play, our goal tending future looks bright, we do have some decent young players. Our defence is younger/bigger/better going forward. Addes to that, we can still sign FA's, we actually have a development program and for the first time I can recall, have a scouting program that drafts players that actually have a shot of playing in the Pro's. I love this team, and if we go down fighting this year, competing, then that is a vast improvement over last year and the recent playoff showings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, LaBamba said: It would have given us another year of ECL, that alone is worth something. Sure his ELC would have been another year.... and his bridge contract would likely have been correspondingly higher. 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, J.R. said: Sure his ELC would have been another year.... and his bridge contract would likely have been correspondingly higher. 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. Seems to work for Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.