aGENT Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, billabong said: Well gaunce/virtanen are the only 2 forwards who can go to the minors without waivers I believe. All 9 defensemen of ours need waivers but I'd rather risk losing Larson than pedan unless Larson really puts on a show in the camp *Biega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjick_fan Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 3 hours ago, tas said: I prefer 2 years. if hudler has a moderately productive year and a middle of the road salary, he'll be perfect bait for expansion. vegas will want an immediately competitive team and they have to get up over the cap floor, so being able to dangle someone like hudler will help lure them away from guys like gaunce, etem and granlund who they don't want to lose but won't be able to protect. if the gamble doesn't pay off, the worst that happens is they're stuck with one more year of an early-mid thirties, soft, middle six forward who will probably be a top 5 point producer on the team and has a relatively reasonable sub-$4 mil salary. That's what was said about Vrbata and look how much of a problem he became in the 2nd year. 1 year is fine but no multi-year contracts for reclamation projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hortankin Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I can see Tampa selling him on their tax rates since he is in it for the money. That would be a good fit for him to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 3 hours ago, mll said: Las Vegas has already said they want a young team. I don't think they would go for Hudler. It's near the end of summer and there were no takers up to now. I also wonder if he is not trying to get an NMC now that there are apparently more suitors re the teams who lost the Vesey sweepstakes. They also need to make the cap floor so they can't just load up on young prospects, and there are supposed "safeguards" to dissuade them from becoming a bad-contract dumping ground (Clarkson, Horton, Pronger, etc.). Some of that will likely still happen, but I'd expect they'll have a balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 5 hours ago, Kenny Powers said: My preferences (in order): 1. Sign Hudler for 1yr 2. Sign no one 3. Sign Hudler for 2 yrs If they sign Hudler that sounds like they expect or want Virtanen to start in the A, unless other moves are planned. If they truly believe Baertschi and Horvat aren't ready for second line duty and that Gaunce, Virtanen, Granlund and Etem are still in need of slow integration, then so be it -- Hudler or similar is fine as a placeholder until they are deemed ready, if that is believed to be the best development path for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 18 hours ago, mll said: I think most have moved away from that line of thinking. I mean even the Ducks have been playing Getzlaf, Rakell/Perry and Kesler on three different lines. WD sees Granlund as an offensive player and he really struggles taking draws - it's likely he will be on a sheltered offensive line. In Calgary he was mostly on their 2nd line with over 60% in o-zone starts. Same for Hudler whose agent says: "Jiri’s the type of player that fits with the offensive aspect [of the game], everybody knows that". So the Sedin, Sutter and Granlund lines are offensive lines. There needs to be a line to take the d-zone starts - the only one left is Horvat. It doesn't mean he is not going to score - it's simply a different usage. Baertschi-Horvat had the d-zone starts against the scoring lines and scored mostly off the rush. In March, Baertschi was more recognisable because WD used him more offensively with Granlund and he was back to making plays in the o-zone. Sutter-Hansen is an offensive line? Pretty sure Sutter was brought in to replace the void that Kesler left. I would never consider a line those two are on as an offensive line. They can easily handle the tough defensive zone starts. I see Baertschi and Horvat as a third line scoring line. Add a good two way player for balance and they'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 30 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Sutter-Hansen is an offensive line? Pretty sure Sutter was brought in to replace the void that Kesler left. I would never consider a line those two are on as an offensive line. They can easily handle the tough defensive zone starts. I see Baertschi and Horvat as a third line scoring line. Add a good two way player for balance and they'll be fine. Benning wants to add a proven goal scorer to the Sutter line. Word is Hudler and he's not a defensive guy. They wouldn't put him on a defensive line. Also when Sutter was healthy he was used offensively - it's Horvat that got the defensive starts against the scoring lines. Sutter was playing with Virtanen so that might explain why - WD wanting to shelter Virtanen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, mll said: Benning wants to add a proven goal scorer to the Sutter line. Word is Hudler and he's not a defensive guy. They wouldn't put him on a defensive line. Also when Sutter was healthy he was used offensively - it's Horvat that got the defensive starts against the scoring lines. Sutter was playing with Virtanen so that might explain why - WD wanting to shelter Virtanen. Just because a line has a scorer on it doesn't mean it's an offensive only line. Lines can have elements of both on them, doesn't mean they can only start in the offensive zone or the defensive zone. Sutter is a defensive specialist, that's what he's known for. If Hudler is on his line he's going to get alot of defensive zone starts. Sutter and Hansen can get the puck up the ice, so it doesn't matter if Hudler is weaker defensively. The idea that we'll only have one line that takes defensive zone starts isn't realistic. The second, third, and fourth lines will all need to be able to start in the D zone for us to have success. It's all about spreading out those tough minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Hockey Place Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Sutter is not a defensive specialist. He's a 2-way forward. Just like Hansen or Burrows aren't defensive specialists. They are 2-way forwards. Malhotra was a defensive specialist while he was here. I think to be considered a "defensive specialist" as a C, you need to be at least one of top PKers in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, Canada Hockey Place said: Sutter is not a defensive specialist. He's a 2-way forward. Just like Hansen or Burrows aren't defensive specialists. They are 2-way forwards. Malhotra was a defensive specialist while he was here. I think to be considered a "defensive specialist" as a C, you need to be at least one of top PKers in the league. He's a shutdown guy that plays tough minutes, that's how he was used in Pittsburgh. Call him whatever you want, but he's a guy that's going to be expected to take defensive zone draws and be on the first pk unit. If everyone stays relatively healthy this season I think there's a good chance we have one of the top penalty kills in the league again like 2014-15. Especially with the hiring of Doug Jarvis. Sutter will be a big part of that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 34 minutes ago, DeNiro said: He's a shutdown guy that plays tough minutes, that's how he was used in Pittsburgh. Call him whatever you want, but he's a guy that's going to be expected to take defensive zone draws and be on the first pk unit. If everyone stays relatively healthy this season I think there's a good chance we have one of the top penalty kills in the league again like 2014-15. Especially with the hiring of Doug Jarvis. Sutter will be a big part of that too. That's not how they want to use him here. Benning talked of how he was stuck behind Crosby/Malkin. Kuzma even labels him a prime playmaker. WD explained that he was using Horvat to shutdown the scoring lines. He said he played Baertschi with him because he wasn't doing anything offensively but was not hurting the team defensively so he was able to use him on that shutdown line. After they acquired Granlund - Baertschi was no longer playing with Horvat but with Granlund, who WD calls an offensive player. It's only injury to Granlund that had them back together. He also talked of how the basis of Horvat's game is defence. Btw when I talk of zone starts it's in the sense of 'mostly' and not 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, mll said: That's not how they want to use him here. Benning talked of how he was stuck behind Crosby/Malkin. Kuzma even labels him a prime playmaker. WD explained that he was using Horvat to shutdown the scoring lines. He said he played Baertschi with him because he wasn't doing anything offensively but was not hurting the team defensively so he was able to use him on that shutdown line. After they acquired Granlund - Baertschi was no longer playing with Horvat but with Granlund, who WD calls an offensive player. It's only injury to Granlund that had them back together. He also talked of how the basis of Horvat's game is defence. Btw when I talk of zone starts it's in the sense of 'mostly' and not 100%. I'm willing to bet Sutter takes more defensive zone draws next season than Horvat. So I don't know how he's not going to be responsible for shutdown duties. You don't put your two best two way players on a line and not use it in a shutdown capacity. Both Horvat and Sutter's line will be counted on the provide offense while getting the bulk of D zone starts. Granlund and Hank's line should get the bulk of the o zone starts. That's the balance any good team needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 22 minutes ago, DeNiro said: I'm willing to bet Sutter takes more defensive zone draws next season than Horvat. So I don't know how he's not going to be responsible for shutdown duties. You don't put your two best two way players on a line and not use it in a shutdown capacity. Both Horvat and Sutter's line will be counted on the provide offense while getting the bulk of D zone starts. Granlund and Hank's line should get the bulk of the o zone starts. That's the balance any good team needs. I think Sutter and Horvat will be pretty close to splitting d zone starts (with Sutter's expected/relied upon to also put up more offense). Bo's line putting up points will just be gravy (that'd be the sheltering part). I also think that if we sign a 'Hudler', Baer is more than likely playing on Granlund's line again, not Horvat's. I think they already plan on having some mix of Etem, Burrows, Dorsett or Virtanen on Horvat's line. Otherwise, unless Rodin can come in and wow everyone, that 2LW spot is likely his due to a lack of other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 11 minutes ago, J.R. said: I think Sutter and Horvat will be pretty close to splitting d zone starts (with Sutter's expected/relied upon to also put up more offense). Bo's line putting up points will just be gravy (that'd be the sheltering part). I also think that if we sign a 'Hudler', Baer is more than likely playing on Granlund's line again, not Horvat's. I think they already plan on having some mix of Etem, Burrows, Dorsett or Virtanen on Horvat's line. Otherwise, unless Rodin can come in and wow everyone, that 2LW spot is likely his due to a lack of other options. If Willie doesn't like Horvat and Baertschi together I don't see how Granlund and Baertschi is going to be better. That line is going to get pushed around too much, not enough balance on it. Putting Baertschi on the fourth line when he was 5th on our team in scoring last season would be ridiculous. A team that was one of the worst in the league in scoring is going to relegate one of it's better playmakers to fourth line duties? Makes no sense. And they wonder why young forwards don't wanna sign here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Realtor Rod Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Would the giant walking bobblehead just choose already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, DeNiro said: If Willie doesn't like Horvat and Baertschi together I don't see how Granlund and Baertschi is going to be better. That line is going to get pushed around too much, not enough balance on it. Putting Baertschi on the fourth line when he was 5th on our team in scoring last season would be ridiculous. A team that was one of the worst in the league in scoring is going to relegate one of it's better playmakers to fourth line duties? Makes no sense. And they wonder why young forwards don't wanna sign here... i respect a lot of what you post but you threw me for a loop .. um.. please explain . i was not aware that young forwards do not want to sign here vancouver might not be the preferred destination it was when the team was excelling but it remains desirable from what i know i am not aware of no go instructions agents are receiving from their younger players about vancouver it is clear there are other cities that have such no go restrictions our recent free agent signings have been of good quality free agent wingers, in both cases, arguably the best winger in that free agent class,,, vrbata and erickson am i missing something here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 4 minutes ago, coastal.view said: i respect a lot of what you post but you threw me for a loop .. um.. please explain . i was not aware that young forwards do not want to sign here vancouver might not be the preferred destination it was when the team was excelling but it remains desirable from what i know i am not aware of no go instructions agents are receiving from their younger players about vancouver it is clear there are other cities that have such no go restrictions our recent free agent signings have been of good quality free agent wingers, in both cases, arguably the best winger in that free agent class,,, vrbata and erickson am i missing something here ? Vrbata and Eriksson aren't young forwards. There's been a long list of college free agents that have passed on signing here over the last few years (Caggiula being the most recent). It shouldn't be surprising though since there are rarely any spots to be had in the top 6 here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Vrbata and Eriksson aren't young forwards. There's been a long list of college free agents that have passed on signing here over the last few years (Caggiula being the most recent). It shouldn't be surprising though since there are rarely any spots to be had in the top 6 here. there are few experienced young forwards who hit free agency we sign our fair share of college free agents we cannot sign them all you over state this issue and i do not think it is real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Just now, coastal.view said: there are few experienced young forwards who hit free agency we sign our fair share of college free agents we cannot sign them all you over state this issue and i do not think it is real Why would a young player who wants top 6 minutes sign here? There's no spots. Of course it's an issue. We do pretty good at signing free agent D-men because our D has been fairly weak and there's spots up for grabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.