Cerridwen Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 1 hour ago, drsofthands said: Nothing to do with trump, people have always been and will always be racist. Trump just a scapegoat Actually, no. Trump gave legitimacy to this type of behavior by his attitudes and comments during his presidential campaign. And now he's "El Presidente Elect". The sentiment was already there with the perpetrator, Trump just made it ok to exhibit it in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: If this was the first story to ever come out than maybe you have a point, but the fact that stories like this have existed long before trump shows that it really has nothing to do with him. I'm kind with Clam on this. Why did this have to reach news outlets. Why did the teacher have to involve trump. All it accomplishes is segregation to a greater audience, it would seem there is a great motive behind reports like this. Growing up i had a (native) classmate accuse the (white) teacher for being racist for giving him a bad mark on an assignment he didn't even do, He then told the teacher he was going to kill her dog. That didn't reach media, the school handled it in house. And good thing because had it reached media, all it would have done would portray a bad and unfair image among native students. One bad kid shouldn't encourage a stereotype of others. just like this article is trying to do towards anyone that supported trump. Quote Post-election spate of hate crimes worse than post-9/11, experts say What may seem like a dramatic rise in the number of hate harassment and hate incidents happening across the country in the wake of Tuesday's general election is not in anyone's imagination, experts say. There indeed has been a spike in the number of reports of such incidents, say representatives for two organizations that track such occurrences. A representative for one group, in fact, said the rise appears to be even worse that what was took place immediately after the terror attacks in 2001. "Since the election, we've seen a big uptick in incidents of vandalism, threats, intimidation spurred by the rhetoric surrounding Mr. Trump's election," Richard Cohen, president of the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., told USA TODAY. "The white supremacists out there are celebrating his victory and many are feeling their oats," Cohen said. ... The SPLC, which tracks hate crimes, says it has logged more than 200 complaints since the election, and while it could not provide a figure for the average number of complaints it takes in each day, Cohen assured that the number is much larger than what is typical. Anti-black and anti-immigrant incidents are generating the highest numbers followed by anti-Muslim incidents, Cohen said. Part of the reason it is happening is that hate group leaders are encouraging members to intimidate people, according to Cohen. The Council on American-Islamic Relations also said it has seen an increase in complaints made to its offices, so much so that it was moved to urge prayer leaders and imams to address fears with imams, said Ibrahim Hooper, the organization's communications director. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/11/12/post-election-spate-hate-crimes-worse-than-post-911-experts-say/93681294/ There has been an increase of such incidents since Trump won. Make no mistake many of these incidents are inspired from Trump's win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 15 minutes ago, Alflives said: I hope you see the irony in your insulting post. Mother Teresa once while begging a very wealthy man for money for orphaned children, had that rich man spit into her palm. She pulled that hand back, and while extending the other hand she said, " thank you that is for me, now can you please spare some money for the children". deep bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Just now, Toews said: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/11/12/post-election-spate-hate-crimes-worse-than-post-911-experts-say/93681294/ There has been an increase of such incidents since Trump won. Make no mistake many of these incidents are inspired from Trump's win. And many of them are coming up as fake supporters. http://www.patdollard.com/two-jewish-students-vandalize-christian-church-to-fake-hate-crime-spray-paint-swastika-trump/ Just ask yourself. What message does this report send to the audience? It’s basically just trying to give ammunition to people to justify their protest of the election. Right now US should be trying to unify the country, but instead they love to create segregation. And segregation creates hate. Hate creates headlines. It plays right into the medias hands. Both sides are at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejazz97 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Just ask yourself. What message does this report send to the audience? It’s basically just trying to give ammunition to people to justify their protest of the election. Right now US should be trying to unify the country, but instead they love to create segregation. And segregation creates hate. Hate creates headlines. It plays right into the medias hands. Both sides are at fault. Politics and religion, two things which hope to unify but ultimately create an Us v. Them situation. I think an independent President should win next time; that way he/she can pull both parties together and hopefully mend the gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeard Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 1 hour ago, ReggieBush said: That is horrible. Anybody that has learned anything about world religion knows that the Muslim faith is a peaceful one, arguably more peaceful than mainstream Christian religions. I went to a Catholic school and thus Religion was a requirement up until 12th grade. While the majority of the curriculum focused on the bible, morality, and the history of the church, there was always a part dedicated to world religions. I think now, more than ever a world religion class should be mandatory in high school curriculums. It eliminates the ignorant population you'll find out radicals like ISIS are more accurately following the Qu'ran than what you call peaceful ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerridwen Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: And many of them are coming up as fake supporters. http://www.patdollard.com/two-jewish-students-vandalize-christian-church-to-fake-hate-crime-spray-paint-swastika-trump/ Just ask yourself. What message does this report send to the audience? It’s basically just trying to give ammunition to people to justify their protest of the election. Right now US should be trying to unify the country, but instead they love to create segregation. And segregation creates hate. Hate creates headlines. It plays right into the medias hands. Both sides are at fault. So is what you're saying.... Such incidents (when true) should never be reported in the media? You don't think the country/world has a right to know what is happening in regard to bigotry and racism? That sentiment was prevalent back in the 30s and early 40s and look what happened there. And that's where I'll leave it. That sort of behavior is being condoned by the silence of others when nobody speaks up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Cerridwen said: Actually, no. Trump gave legitimacy to this type of behavior by his attitudes and comments during his presidential campaign. And now he's "El Presidente Elect". The sentiment was already there with the perpetrator, Trump just made it ok to exhibit it in public. It still puzzles me how people can even deny it. Trump's proposed Muslim ban or his registry of Muslims (which at one point was going to have American citizens), his fear mongering over ISIS, suggesting that his political opponents were responsible for a Muslim terrorist group. Now that he has won is it any surprise that people think of Muslims in America as second class citizens? 3 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: And many of them are coming up as fake supporters. http://www.patdollard.com/two-jewish-students-vandalize-christian-church-to-fake-hate-crime-spray-paint-swastika-trump/ Just ask yourself. What message does this report send to the audience? It’s basically just trying to give ammunition to people to justify their protest of the election. Right now US should be trying to unify the country, but instead they love to create segregation. And segregation creates hate. Hate creates headlines. It plays right into the medias hands. Both sides are at fault. You will have to qualify this statement . There have been a few incidents that have been fake but not enough for you to simply dismiss the numerous accounts of hate crimes being committed all over the United States So those who have been victims of such crimes should just shut the hell up because it's preventing America from "unifying" around Trump? You do realize that Trump was the one with the divisive rhetoric. If Trump was interested in a unified America he would not have referred to Mexicans as rapists and proposed to ban Muslims from entering the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 2 hours ago, drsofthands said: Nothing to do with trump, people have always been and will always be racist. Drumpf just a scapegoat True but I think with Palin in 2008 and then with Trump's win meant that the innate racism people had were were vindicated. In a sense that showing their racism made it ok because Trump's campaign became the enabler for them to openly express the bigotry of many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Just now, Cerridwen said: So such incidents (when true) should never be reported in the media? You don't think the country/world has a right to know what is happening in regard to bigotry and racism? That sentiment was prevalent back in the 30s and early 40s and look what happened there. And that's where I'll leave it. That sort of behavior is being condoned by the silence of others when nobody speaks up. I think some things aren't worth reporting, the goal isn't to reporting the news, the goal is create hate. The media and news outlets aren't worth watching in the first place unless you enjoy being depressed and terrified. What good does this report do to the public? It can be handled in house and dealt with. Had the teacher been white and the kid been white and it was just a bad kid who simply hated his teacher how much attention would this report get. It that situation not just as important for the public to be aware of? Again both sides are at fault. If a shooting happens the color of the person skin is always one of the first things stated, even if it has nothing to do with race or religion. Why does media pick and choose how and what to report, don't find it funny that they stories always tend to lean towards the real agenda? The agenda of spreading hate and making people hate each other for differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerridwen Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I think some things aren't worth reporting, the goal isn't to reporting the news, the goal is create hate. The media and news outlets aren't worth watching in the first place unless you enjoy being depressed and terrified. What good does this report do to the public? It can be handled in house and dealt with. Had the teacher been white and the kid been white and it was just a bad kid who simply hated his teacher how much attention would this report get. It that situation not just as important for the public to be aware of? Again both sides are at fault. If a shooting happens the color of the person skin is always one of the first things stated, even if it has nothing to do with race or religion. Why does media pick and choose how and what to report, don't find it funny that they stories always tend to lean towards the real agenda? The agenda of spreading hate and making people hate each other for differences. Agree to disagree, then? Because I emphatically and categorically do not agree with all you've said Denying that such racist acts do not exist by not reporting them only allows those perpetrating such acts to think it's justified and that they can get away with it. Ignoring it won't make it go away. What's that saying? Oh yes... First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clam linguine Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 39 minutes ago, Toews said: clam believes that racism doesn't exist because he hasn't experienced it first hand. I am not even exaggerating, he literally said that. Wow! I should have never said that! Point it out to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 16 minutes ago, BlackBeard said: you'll find out radicals like ISIS are more accurately following the Qu'ran than what you call peaceful ones. This is entirely debatable as a book written hundreds of years ago can be interpreted in many different ways today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 12 minutes ago, Toews said: So those who have been victims of such crimes should just shut the hell up because it's preventing America from "unifying" around Trump? You do realize that Trump was the one with the divisive rhetoric. If Trump was interested in a unified America he would not have referred to Mexicans as rapists and proposed to ban Muslims from entering the United States. Again what was the agenda of the cut and paste reports that you are quoting. He never refereed to Mexican's being rapist. He stated that many of people that are illegally entering the country are bad people that the us doesn't want those types of people. Very similarly to Muslim extremist. Letting people walk into the country without security doesn't help keep those bad people out. If you do things legal guess what, you can enter. I have a question for you? When you go to bed do you lock your door of your home? Why is that? To keep the bad people out of your home perhaps? Does the act of locking your door imply that all people outside of your home are bad or is it just a way to help "You" make that determination on what people you feel safe enough to enter your home........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Easy solution.... Whoever wrote the note should demonstrate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etsen3 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 1 hour ago, canuck204 said: I agree, but they think they are, which is the problem. I'm not not sure any of these religions really have true meanings. You don't need a religion to raise kids/people to be kind, and caring. My point is that they think they are doing the work of their god. So that's where I see a problem with that. I know that most of us are normal peaceful people but when they are screaming god is great when they go blow some $&!# up and kill themselves that concerns me. I know this is a complicated subject and I don't have all the answers, but I am mainly disagreeing with your statement of the whole religion is in fact a peaceful one, and when so called muslims act out and it no longer fits your narrative you can't just say they aren't muslim. This applies to every relgion/faith. This is actually a reasonable critique of extremism. I do disagree with people that say that extremism has nothing to do with the institution of religion. Religion is what people make it into, it shouldn't be held on a pedestal. I can't speak for Islam specifically, but I am familiar with the Bible and the Old Testament does include many violent and hateful passages. Thankfully, many Christians choose not to emphasize these passages, but many do. It's true that many people would be hateful even if they weren't religious, and gravitate towards negative teachings because that's who they already are as a person. It's equally true, however, that otherwise decent people can be brainwashed (particularly children and the vulnerable) into believing these hateful teachings. I know many heavily religious, bigoted people who are otherwise extremely loving and caring to those around them. I do not think they would be holding these views if they hadn't been raised in fundamentalist households since they were born. So I don't think we should sugarcoat religion or deny the influence it can have generations of young people. Religion can and is often used as a tool to create fear and brainwash innocent people into believing dangerous things. Having said all this, the way Muslims are being treated in the US today is completely unacceptable, especially when many of those critiquing Islamic extremism are religious extremists themselves and are actually more dangerous since they wield a huge amount of political power and make up majorities of the population in certain areas. If these people really cared about fighting extremism, they would do it in their own churches and work to root it out amongst their own circles, not heap hatred on people they don't even know. The double standard sickens me. Mistrust of Muslims (aka normal people) is counterproductive to the goals of successful integration and harmony in society. But more importantly it is a disgusting way to treat your fellow human being. This teacher is right to expose this incident, and if she finds it racist, she's probably correct. She is the one actually familiar with the situation, and she is the one that has to live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clam linguine Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 49 minutes ago, Toews said: clam believes that racism doesn't exist because he hasn't experienced it first hand. I am not even exaggerating, he literally said that. Actually...I would like an apology for this, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Again what was the agenda of the cut and paste reports that you are quoting. He never refereed to Mexican's being rapist. He stated that many of people that are illegally entering the country are bad people that the us doesn't want those types of people. Very similarly to Muslim extremist. Letting people walk into the country without security doesn't help keep those bad people out. If you do things legal guess what, you can enter. I have a question for you? When you go to bed do you lock your door of your home? Why is that? To keep the bad people out of your home perhaps? Does the act of locking your door imply that all people outside of your home are bad or is it just a way to help "You" make that determination on what people you feel safe you enter your home........ The agenda is to expose the hatred occurring in the United States. You don't get rid of racism by dusting it under the carpet and pretending it doesn't exist. The United States has a large number of illegal immigrants. The vast majority of them are not criminals. Many of them have family who are American citizens. How do you think these people feel when their future President calls their loved ones rapists without any shred of proof to back that accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 1 minute ago, clam linguine said: Actually...I would like an apology for this, please. You will be waiting a long time. Your posts on pages 693-694 of the Election thread said as much, and it wasn't just me that interpreted your posts that way. The way you constantly dismiss the many incidents as 'attention seeking' says a lot about who you are. I have half a mind to block you forever so that I do not have to read any of your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Just for some perspective. How many 'extremist' Muslims are there when compared with the wider and world-wide Muslim population? As mentioned already, it depends on how one defines "extremism." Assuming the news definition and common usage, CNN has a good article listing the numbers of various "Islamic" terrorist organizations (there's a whole other discussion on how the question is wrong since Islam doesn't teach unwarranted violence, but that's another question entirely). The article estimates around 106,000 individuals are members or identify with these organizations. That's a pretty high number, but let's do some high-level number crunching so we can get a better idea of how big that is. A recent Pew Research Studyplaces the number of Muslims worldwide to be around 1.6 billion (or 23% of the world's population). So doing some basic math, we get that about .006625% of the Muslim population are "extremist". Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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