Salmonberries Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 4 hours ago, oldnews said: The players available at 5 in this draft = one of Mittelstadt, Vilardi, Heiskanen, Liljegren, Glass, Makar - people appear to be seriously undervaluing. I was hoping not to slide past #4 spot personally but I agree with that. I was more thinking that Tanev isn't guaranteed to fetch us his true value in a trade, that teams don't fully realize just how good he is. I've got Tanev beside Horvat in the no move category personally. I don't really get the thinking that he's expendable, I think quite the contrary. I've seen enough of the Canucks without him in the lineup to be scared off of a trade Tanev scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Salmonberries said: I was hoping not to slide past #4 spot personally but I agree with that. I was more thinking that Tanev isn't guaranteed to fetch us his true value in a trade, that teams don't fully realize just how good he is. I've got Tanev beside Horvat in the no move category personally. I don't really get the thinking that he's expendable, I think quite the contrary. I've seen enough of the Canucks without him in the lineup to be scared off of a trade Tanev scenario. Not expendable. Short term pain for long term gain. There's a difference. We're not going to be a good team with or without him. I'd prefer to get value for him now to build towards a better long term future. The present/near future is going to suck regardless of Tanev or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Tanev could net us a quality return. Not a Taylor Hall but enough to boost our rebuild significantly. We can also sign someone in the off-season with the cap we get from trading him in order to fill that stop gap because that's what Tanev is right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 23 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: Tanev could net us a quality return. Not a Taylor Hall but enough to boost our rebuild significantly. We can also sign someone in the off-season with the cap we get from trading him in order to fill that stop gap because that's what Tanev is right now. Move Tanev for pick/prospect, sign a UFA to be stop gap and trade 4th to DAL for one of Lehtonen/Niemi and their two 2nds. Yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhorvat Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 This whole trade tanev thing going on is heavily drivin by our local media. I dont think management wants to do this. I would prefer to keep him...as we all know its not easy to aquire a top 2 dman and tanev will still be very effective when this team is ready to make some noise in a few years. If were buildin from the net out then his veteran presence will be needed in 2-3years. Plus he really stabilizes our backend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacious Crumb Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 27 minutes ago, captainhorvat said: This whole trade tanev thing going on is heavily drivin by our local media. I dont think management wants to do this. I would prefer to keep him...as we all know its not easy to aquire a top 2 dman and tanev will still be very effective when this team is ready to make some noise in a few years. If were buildin from the net out then his veteran presence will be needed in 2-3years. Plus he really stabilizes our backend. I don't disagree with your points at all but it may have to do with the fact that Tanev is our only really saleable player. Trading away picks or kids is something JB said earlier this season won't happen moving forward. Even if Edler waived does he net much when looking at his play, age and contract? Any of Markstrom, Gudbranson or Sutter could be part of a deal but it is only Tanev that could net a decent return all on his own. JB is going into the 4th year of his contract so if he wants to sign an extension he needs to show that the future is bright so I suspect that he pulls a move or 2 at the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 6 hours ago, Salmonberries said: I was hoping not to slide past #4 spot personally but I agree with that. I was more thinking that Tanev isn't guaranteed to fetch us his true value in a trade, that teams don't fully realize just how good he is. I've got Tanev beside Horvat in the no move category personally. I don't really get the thinking that he's expendable, I think quite the contrary. I've seen enough of the Canucks without him in the lineup to be scared off of a trade Tanev scenario. yeah, it aint pretty without him in the lineup. I think there's time with him as well - his value isn't going anywhere fast - give the team some more time with him stabilizing the back end and perhaps in a year or so with the young group having another year of development, the idea of moving him may not be so daunting. I'm also not in the 'let's get as bad as possible' fanclub - I don't like seeing young players overexposed and overmatched night after night and risking their development trajectory. However with the ED I would look to mitigate our loss by dealing Edler if possible - I think Vegas will take an exposed Sbisa otherwise and when you factor in a reasonable return for Edler, retaining Sbisa and possibly signing a UFA replacement (Kulikov?) we might be able to come out ahead by acting quickly if possible Alternatively if they could offer LV a pick to take Pedan instead, and retain both Edler and Sbisa, it may turn out better to deal Edler after the ED when a bunch of teams have taken hits to their blueline....not easy to say but for me moving Tanev now would require a pair of young assets coming back - preferably an NHL ready young D and high pick or something of that nature - I sure as hell wouldn't be spending a monster package on a shiny little big-headed forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 26 minutes ago, oldnews said: yeah, it aint pretty without him in the lineup. I sure as hell wouldn't be spending a monster package on a shiny little big-headed forward. Edler, Stecher Hutton, Gudbranson Sbisa, UFA McEneny, Biega ...is not that scary. Hell no to Drouin. We agree on that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 Just now, J.R. said: Edler, Stecher Hutton, Gudbranson Sbisa, UFA McEneny, Biega ...is not that scary. Hell no to Drouin. We agree on that! How long are you going to hand onto Edler J.R.? I think we've been around in enough circles on this one. But yeah - moving a package like people are suggesting for Drouin would be a Tim Murray level derp on the richter scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, oldnews said: How long are you going to hand onto Edler J.R.? I think we've been around in enough circles on this one. But yeah - moving a package like people are suggesting for Drouin would be a Tim Murray level derp on the richter scale. Until Juolevi is more ready/another year +/-. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, J.R. said: Until Juolevi is more ready/another year +/-. Keep Tanev and you have an anchoring partner for young Juolevi. Sbisa (and Kulikov) can bridge until Juolevi is ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 1 minute ago, oldnews said: Keep Tanev and you have an anchoring partner for young Juolevi. Sbisa (and Kulikov) can bridge until Juolevi is ready. And if that's the route we go, I'm fine with that as well. One of them has to go though. Soon IMO. The other, shortly after. Tanev is simply the easier and more fruitful move. Neither should be here past the 18/19 TDL . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted May 3, 2017 Share Posted May 3, 2017 4 hours ago, oldnews said: Keep Tanev and you have an anchoring partner for young Juolevi. Sbisa (and Kulikov) can bridge until Juolevi is ready. I'd rather see Guddy with Juolevi as protection for his rookie season. Tanev may be good defensively, but certainly won't protect him from the inevitable manhandling he'll get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YummyCakeFace Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Marner and the Swedish kid are too small and wimpy. Never win a cup with those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 I have to wonder: How would the Leafs have looked in the playoffs with a Noah Hanifin in their lineup as opposed to MItch Marner? Or even Provorov or Werenski? Is Mark Hunter really the genius that tire-pump nation makes him out to be? Meh, Who needs a #1D? The Leafs do have Gardiner after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBoGo53 Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 10 hours ago, oldnews said: I have to wonder: How would the Leafs have looked in the playoffs with a Noah Hanifin in their lineup as opposed to MItch Marner? Or even Provorov or Werenski? Is Mark Hunter really the genius that tire-pump nation makes him out to be? Meh, Who needs a #1D? The Leafs do have Gardiner after all. Pens and Caps are both cup contenders without traditional #1D. Carlson is close, but his analytics point to him being a better 2 than 1. A solid group of 6 dmen who can move the puck quick can equally be as valuable as a 30 min minute eater imo. As for your point, I think they may regret Werenski, but Marner is better than Provorov/Hanifin objectively. Marner just put up one of the best 19 year old NHL seasons in recent history, he gets underrated because of the attention Matthews gets. Werenski just put together an all time season for 19 year old dmen. He's a stud. Provorov/Hanifin still have a long way to go before being compared to either Marner/Werenski, especially Hanifin. On 5/6/2017 at 4:47 AM, YummyCakeFace said: Marner and the Swedish kid are too small and wimpy. Never win a cup with those guys. This is just salt. It's based on nothing. Nylander and Marner are both bigger than Patrick Kane. Both are as big as Crosby, Kessel, Keith. Nylander is almost as big as Toews. All of those guys are cup winners, most of them multi cup winners, want to tell me they are small? You have no idea what you are talking about. The game today is about speed and skill, not size. I can't believe people still post garbage like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 4 hours ago, GoBoGo53 said: As for your point, I think they may regret Werenski, but Marner is better than Provorov/Hanifin objectively. That's a good story. How does one arrive at it "objectively"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 On 5/2/2017 at 10:03 AM, oldnews said: Edler CBJ 2nd 14th overall mid round pick/prospect Oh right - Edler and a 2nd isn't worth enough for that trade up. And Burrows was a buyout candidate, that you couldn't get a late pick for. And Hansen was worth a 3rd, maybe a 2nd on a good day. But thanks for the good luck. This isn't crazy. They have the cap space and their top 4 D core would include Hedman Stralman and Edler, and then they could expose some of their right side depth in Coburn Sustr and L in Garrison to Vegas and still come out better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBoGo53 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 9 hours ago, oldnews said: That's a good story. How does one arrive at it "objectively"? Objectively, as in just someone analyzing the numbers. Werenski looks like the 2nd biggest steal of that draft behind Kaprizov. Marner put up an incredible 19 year old season rivaled by very few. Hanifin has really struggled on a bottom pairing in Carolina and bleeds shots. Provorov faced tougher competition, however he struggled in those minutes. I'd say its currently Werenski Marner Provorov Hanifin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 21 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said: Objectively, as in just someone analyzing the numbers. Werenski looks like the 2nd biggest steal of that draft behind Kaprizov. Marner put up an incredible 19 year old season rivaled by very few. Hanifin has really struggled on a bottom pairing in Carolina and bleeds shots. Provorov faced tougher competition, however he struggled in those minutes. I'd say its currently Werenski Marner Provorov Hanifin Really cool story. However - objectively Hanifin's corsi was 50.9% but 'bleeds shots' (and the irony here is that his corsi is higher than Marner's) - he played top 4 minutes (4th on the Canes blueline with 18 minutes a night = not 'bottom pairing') - and scored 29 pts as a 19/20 year old NHL defenseman. Hanifin over Marner in a heartbeat - particularly if I'm a team like the Leafs who need a Noah Hanifin far more than they do another one-dimensional forward like Marner - who's as of yet too small, too soft and too weak to translate into an NHL center (gets killed down low and in the faceoff circle) / small winger conversion. Meanwhile, look at the Leafs blueline prospect pool and compare it to their young forwards and prospects.... Likewise, Provorov had better underlying numbers than Marner - lead his team in ice time (22 minutes a night), 166 blocked shots - scored 30 pts as a 19/20yr old rookie D..... Werenski, Hanifin, Provorov Marner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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