Pete M Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 13 hours ago, S'all Good Man said: Thats great. I think they earned 67 points that year and his 2 way play stunk. My point is, would Bo be progressing better with Burr or Megna as line mates? I think we know the answer. There is a necessity for veteran leadership; but at some point that veteran leadership has to move to a support role and allow the young players to reach their potential. Like many people here have observed is the young guys either are not good enough to take the lead role, or they haven't been given the reins to take the lead role. Most fans are leaning to wanting to see the young guys; but the vets are still in the way. The respect level the Sedins have with this team is now starting to get in the way to the determent of this team. The Sedins have been given enough opportunity to perform, but the team's performance is trending in the wrong direction (at this rate, they will finish dead last rather than being a wild card team). Why not play the young guys more in critical times and in critical areas on the ice including the PP ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I'll answer my own question...because the young guys are not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 17 minutes ago, Pete M said: I'll answer my own question...because the young guys are not good enough. I'd argue it's more that, at forward at least, they're simply not plentiful enough. Yet. (Which is understandable given that we're really only 2.5 years in to JB's rebuild and he was rightly more focused on D and goalies first). Horvat's likely good enough now to at least challenge for 1st line minutes over the twins, but one guy does not a line make. Baer, Granlund etc were never projected to be 1st liners. Boeser's still in college (and injured), Virt's still developing and we've yet sot acquire the rest of what's likely to become our future 1st line. That 'hole' is one of the bigger reasons JB signed Eriksson IMO (despite CDC's insistence it was solely to play with the twins). It's also why I see us moving Tanev this summer for a young forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 9 hours ago, Beary Sweet said: Even though we are doing terrible this year, the team is still entertaining to watch and that's all I want from this team. Sure winning would make the young players feel good about themselves and motivates them next game to keep doing what they're doing but we have to be honest with ourselves... We have a promising d corps though in Hutton, Juolevi, Guddy, Tryamkin, Brisebois, etc. now we just need more forwards. we got some in Boeser, Lockwood, Rodin in there as well, Gaudette...This team won't make it anywhere. They will be in the bottom 5 and possibly the basement. Don't hate on me. I love the team and the players we have but it's not good enough to compete. Having Patrick next season would look really good and be a good #1 C for this team for many years to come. We just have to do the right thing which is build up on assets and trade pending FAs to teams wanting a playoff run. But it will be couple more seasons till we really be competitive again and start winning President's Trophies again. That's my 2 cents Nice post. I agree that I would much rather watch an entertaining 5-4 loss than a dull 2-1 loss. At least we have some highlights to look at. I also agree that the pipeline for defensive prospects actually looks pretty good, but the pipeline for forwards is thin. I think Boeser is the only legitimate high end prospect not currently on the big team. I hope one or two of the other guys -- Lockwood, Gaudette, Rodin etc. can develop into solid NHL players (and let's not forget Virtanen), but we still need more solid forward prospects. So we need a good draft this year. I also agree that rebuilds can happen fairly quickly. Yes, Edmonton and Toronto were bad for long stretches, but a lot of teams have put the core of a quality team in place over the space of 4 or 5 years. The Canucks have been struggling since the Torts year and are now in the third year of the new regime. I think the that Canucks should have gone for a full rebuild from day 1 of the new regime and don't like some of the moves Benning has made. But there are some good pieces in place (including Horvat and Hutton from the previous regime). So if the Canucks are smart this year and next year we could see significant improvement the year after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Pete M said: There is a necessity for veteran leadership; but at some point that veteran leadership has to move to a support role and allow the young players to reach their potential. Like many people here have observed is the young guys either are not good enough to take the lead role, or they haven't been given the reins to take the lead role. Most fans are leaning to wanting to see the young guys; but the vets are still in the way. The respect level the Sedins have with this team is now starting to get in the way to the determent of this team. The Sedins have been given enough opportunity to perform, but the team's performance is trending in the wrong direction (at this rate, they will finish dead last rather than being a wild card team). Why not play the young guys more in critical times and in critical areas on the ice including the PP ? Well on D I would say they are. But yah not having Bo playing more offensive time is one of my peeves with Willie. The Sedin's "aren't in the way" though of anything, they don't choose how they are deployed, that's on the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Just now, S'all Good Man said: Well on D I would say they are. One could argue that's only by default (whether because of injuries and/or they've not nobody better on the farm to play instead of guys currently struggling). Much like the only reason guys like Markstrom (and in the past Lack) got any meaningful icetime was Miller get hurt for good chunks each season of the previous two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: One could argue that's only by default (whether because of injuries and/or they've not nobody better on the farm to play instead of guys currently struggling). Much like the only reason guys like Markstrom (and in the past Lack) got any meaningful icetime was Miller get hurt for good chunks each season of the previous two seasons. I would have liked to see Marky get more time too, but again with Willie calling him the "#1" I'm not sure what else there is to say. This team needs some big changes, and they're coming sooner than later on older player contracts. In 2 seasons we're going to have one of the youngest rosters in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: In 2 seasons we're going to have one of the youngest rosters in the league. A lot of people seem to have trouble seeing this. Realistically, we're still VERY early in the rebuild. The change they're all clamoring for will be here before they know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 4 minutes ago, J.R. said: A lot of people seem to have trouble seeing this. Realistically, we're still VERY early in the rebuild. The change they're all clamoring for will be here before they know it. The rebuild could be accelerated a bit if JB got lucky with one of Gaudette, Zhukenov or Lockwood. If one of them pulled a Stecher for next season that would be a nice boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Just now, S'all Good Man said: The rebuild could be accelerated a bit if JB got lucky with one of Gaudette, Zhukenov or Lockwood. If one of them pulled a Stecher for next season that would be a nice boost. Next year will be the 'last hurrah' of the vast majority of the previous core. The 18/19 season, this will largely be Benning's team (albeit, still very young and not a 'finished product'). I'd look for those 'surprises' more that year. They'll be another year developed and their will tons more roster spots to battle for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 This team in this market should spend to the cap - simple as that. What I care about is their cap health - and the flexibility they have, or lack of, moving forward. I think the team is in a very healthy position transitioning with over 10 million expiring this year, over 21 million next year. I'd like to see Hansen and Sbisa re-upped if they're still here, and the Sedins if they want another contract won't be making close to 7 million. Tanev, Elder, Badger = very good cap values. Lots of youth depth emerging - ELCs and RFAs - which gives the team a lot of flexibility in the coming years. They'll be in a strong negotiating position imo - as having that flexibility is one of the most valuable currencies in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I hope we cut another deal - just do it Benning. Michael Mersch - buried in the Kings A - good two way pwf, fairly clutch - not the fastest guy but solid in the hard areas and not shy about going to the net. Likely to lose a forward to expansion - a young two way guy with upside and size could fit nicely imo. Let's take another chance on a guy on the margins of LA's system, who is likely to be frogged by Kempe or Brodzinski. Offer them some solid NHL depth for their playoff run - Jack Skille! Jk. And when that fails, dangle a late pick - 4th or 5th. That might get it done. And the pleasure of reading the reactions would be well worth it. Just do it. Trade another pick please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 10 hours ago, S'all Good Man said: Well on D I would say they are. But yah not having Bo playing more offensive time is one of my peeves with Willie. The Sedin's "aren't in the way" though of anything, they don't choose how they are deployed, that's on the coach. Exactly my point... "The respect level the Sedins have with this team is now starting to get in the way to the determent of this team." The coach gives them too much respect...even though some games their quality of play is questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyg43 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 On 2016-12-15 at 1:49 AM, Oliewud said: Mike Gillis traded away 12 picks over a 6 year period. Jim Benning has traded away 12 picks over a 2.5 year period. Just digesting that an had to repost it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 11 hours ago, bobbyg43 said: Just digesting that an had to repost it You should also digest how many other picks he brought back that aren't included in that tally then. Or how many young ACTUAL NHL players we have from some of those picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeBee51 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 3 hours ago, J.R. said: You should also digest how many other picks he brought back that aren't included in that tally then. Or how many young ACTUAL NHL players we have from some of those picks. some people don't digest the truth very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 19 hours ago, bobbyg43 said: Just digesting that an had to repost it supersize it. would you like fries with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted December 18, 2016 Author Share Posted December 18, 2016 On 12/16/2016 at 10:41 AM, S'all Good Man said: The rebuild could be accelerated a bit if JB got lucky with one of Gaudette, Zhukenov or Lockwood. If one of them pulled a Stecher for next season that would be a nice boost. It would great to get lucky with one of these guys or one of the other forward prospects (maybe Jasek). And it could happen. But forwards are a bit easier to project than D's, partly because D's normally develop on a slower trajectory. So forwards are less likely to provide big positive surprises in their early 20s like Hutton and Stecher were (or Tanev). It happens with forwards (e.g. Burrows), but not very often. On 12/16/2016 at 8:53 PM, Pete M said: Exactly my point... "The respect level the Sedins have with this team is now starting to get in the way to the determent of this team." The coach gives them too much respect...even though some games their quality of play is questionable. Yes, the Sedins should not really be first liners on a good team at this stage in their careers -- playing big minutes and with first unit PP time. The trouble is that the Canucks do not have anyone else who is an obvious first liner. I think Horvat is a better 5-on-5 center than Henrik, but he is not really a first liner either. And, at LW, there is no-one ahead of Daniel yet, although maybe Baertschi is close. But I think the real problem is that the Canucks do not have a legitimate first line no matter what they do. Right now no one on the team projects for even as much as 55 pts this season. (With 20 pts in 31 games, Daniel is the Canucks' leading scorer and is on pace for 53 pts.) So I am not that worried about optimal deployment this season. I just want the rebuild to make some good steps forward and enjoy watching the young guys make progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 1 minute ago, JamesB said: It would great to get lucky with one of these guys or one of the other forward prospects (maybe Jasek). And it could happen. But forwards are a bit easier to project than D's, partly because D's normally develop on a slower trajectory. So forwards are less likely to provide big positive surprises in their early 20s like Hutton and Stecher were (or Tanev). It happens with forwards (e.g. Burrows), but not very often. Yes, the Sedins should not really be first liners on a good team at this stage in their careers -- playing big minutes and with first unit PP time. The trouble is that the Canucks do not have anyone else who is an obvious first liner. I think Horvat is not a better 5-on-5 center than Henrik, but he is not really a first liner either. And, at LW, there is no-one ahead of Daniel yet, although maybe Baertschi is close. But I think the really problem is that the Canucks do not have a legitimate first line no matter what they do. Right now no one on the time projects for even as much as 55 pts this season. (With 20 pts in 31 games, Daniel is the Canucks' leading scorer and is on pace for 53 pts.) So I am not that worried about optimal deployment this season. I just want to rebuild to make some good steps forward and enjoy watching the young guys make progress. I sadly have to agree...our talent pool is not there yet... To think that JB passed on Tkachuk (nothing against Joulevi), but this was a player that we needed now...to grow with Horvat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 35 minutes ago, Pete M said: I sadly have to agree...our talent pool is not there yet... To think that JB passed on Tkachuk (nothing against Joulevi), but this was a player that we needed now...to grow with Horvat. Delayed gratification my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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