bingofan Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 20 minutes ago, Provost said: You might want to watch games or at least post game interviews. I don't even remember a time (after a loss) when they didn't say they had to be better. They have overperformed the value in their contracts for the last 15 years, so maybe cutting a little slack is warranted. I'm all ears if you can find examples. Recently, Henrik did say that his line had to be better, but that is something that lines 1 through 4 routinely say. What I do not hear everyday is a highly-paid captain saying that he can't play the same game he used to because he is not playing with the same quality of defensemen. That, and hearing them say they want others to step up offensively, is really what bothers me. Yes - I completely understand how much they have meant to this team in the past. But the current situation is that they are captains and assistant captains and the highest-paid players on their team; their main responsibility it is to score. It just makes no sense for them to be seemingly putting the heat on their teammates instead of taking the heat off of them by shouldering some of the responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 1 hour ago, shazzam said: They are 36 now and shouldn't be relied on as the primary offense. Our drafting failed us big time and we didn't have the next wave ready. I'll go as far back as the Gillis era. Those 5 drafts between 2008 to 2012.. absolutely terrible. No excuses even if we weren't drafting high. We finally got Horvat in 2013 but we had to trade a #1 goalie for it. Didn't a 44 year old Czech just get player of the week? The Sedins are the highest paid players on the team - until that changes, they SHOULD be relied on as the primary offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clutesi Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I love the Sedins, theyre total role models. But they are no longer first line forwards. Now is the time to get high level picks for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Barzal Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I have a theory that they're purposely holding back to allow the team to recoup talent. There are times at which you can tell they WANT to win and they show some semblance of their past selves (like against the Hawks) and it really makes me wonder whether they're giving their all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 5 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said: Agree with a lot of what the OP has stated. Sedins should have suggested playing on different lines, as well. & it's not just their declining point production, their line's defensive ineptitude(mostly turtle gear-issue), more than offsets their off-contributions. The contract was 1 mill too much(per yr), and/or a yr too long. So it becomes an issue of what amount of negative fan statements are acceptable, or simply considered constructive criticism, when we factor in the dozen(or so) excellent yrs Van fans received? We're all cognizant now, & measured in our analysis. Don't think there was any way you could sign the Sedins to a cheaper/shorter contract. Maybe if you'd given them 7/year, you could have taken a year off the length... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 4 hours ago, bingofan said: I agree, but Toews and Kopitar could probably still hit and kill penalties at 36. And I doubt they would attribute their decline in production to the decline in the quality of players surrounding them. Yes, payers decline, and for sure at some point will produce less than what they are being paid for. I am just disappointed that they seem to refuse to acknowledge that (at least in public), and instead seem to deflect the responsibility onto other players making way less money. That's not really showing a lot of leadership in my opinion. That's just it... nobody knows. When Sedins signed their last contract nobody knew they when they would be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazzam Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 32 minutes ago, Heretic said: Didn't a 44 year old Czech just get player of the week? The Sedins are the highest paid players on the team - until that changes, they SHOULD be relied on as the primary offense. Jagr ain't like the rest. Most players don't even play to the Sedins current age. Guess what, they are but they shouldn't be. That's why we are at the bottom of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 26 minutes ago, clutesi said: I love the Sedins, theyre total role models. But they are no longer first line forwards. Now is the time to get high level picks for them. How is that even possible? Who is going to give away high level picks for two guys that cost 14 million a year in salary and can't produce much anymore? Someone would have to dump another salary just to fit them in for the salary cap. Just think about this first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 5 hours ago, Rocksterh8 said: Knowing Jim, he'll re-sign them until they're 40 for another stupid amount of money. their next contract could be the defining contract signing of jb. if he offers silly money hes gonna hear it. paying them what they are worth sure. but leadership has $$ limitations. Im guessing they get 4.5 mill each for 2 seasons and they may play one more after. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazzam Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 4 minutes ago, Westcoasting said: How is that even possible? Who is going to give away high level picks for two guys that cost 14 million a year in salary and can't produce much anymore? Someone would have to dump another salary just to fit them in for the salary cap. Just think about this first... No they are not going to fetch high level picks but to say they can't produce much anymore isn't fair. They are still producing at a top 6 rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazzam Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 4 minutes ago, Rush17 said: their next contract could be the defining contract signing of jb. if he offers silly money hes gonna hear it. paying them what they are worth sure. but leadership has $$ limitations. Im guessing they get 4.5 mill each for 2 seasons and they may play one more after. ^^ I'm not sure if there will be a next contract. They'll be 38 heading into the season for their next contract and you want to fork out 4.5 each for 2 more seasons? This will be an easy pass for JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolboarder Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 The Sedin could easily fetch us good returns but they are not going anywhere. The only way to take back the control is to have Willie actually coach this team, and not let Sedin dictate things before the faceoff or each OT period, or even before PP starts, I notice that they direct on PP strategy. They doesn't score PP anymore so their tactics don't work anymore so one of the coach should take control of things now before it's too late. Their value will go down if they couldn't do anything on PP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 25 minutes ago, Rush17 said: their next contract could be the defining contract signing of jb. if he offers silly money hes gonna hear it. paying them what they are worth sure. but leadership has $$ limitations. Im guessing they get 4.5 mill each for 2 seasons and they may play one more after. ^^ I sure hope not. Once this contract is over then that should be it. Dont get me wrong, I appreciate what the Sedins have done in the past but that's just it, it's in the past. They are just a shadow of their former selves now and dont produce nearly enough relative to their cap hits. They're holding the team back. We're not competitive with them and we cant/wont completely bottom out either. Just speaking for myself but I'm ready for the Sedin era to end as soon as possible. The Canucks have had 15 or so years now of mild-mannered 'swedish leadership' starting with Naslund, with a 2 year break in between with the ludicrous Luongo captaincy, then Hank took over the letter as we all know. There were some really good Canuck teams during that time and virtually no playoff success and obviously no cup. Not saying these guys were necessarily the problem, but they definitely were not the solution either. I'd just like to see something different in that regard starting sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hectic Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 7 hours ago, Rocksterh8 said: Knowing Jim, he'll re-sign them until they're 40 for another stupid amount of money. Based on what? When has he done anything like this ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 1 hour ago, clutesi said: I love the Sedins, theyre total role models. But they are no longer first line forwards. Now is the time to get high level picks for them. Not going to be remotely possible until next year. no team will take on both of them especially if it means taking up two slots in their expansion draft protected list. Now if they want to be really cheeky, they can sign 1 year deals with vancouver after their current contracts, then agree with mgmt to trade them to cup contenders at deadline for a shot at the cup. Then rinse and repeat with 1 year contracts in YVR and trade again until they win a cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Cherry Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 7 hours ago, stonecoldstevebernier said: Salaries have been inflating for years, you can say the same about a very sizable portion of players who earn around $7m or more per year. Since people love referring back to 2011, Krejci and Bergeron both make more than the Sedins and are producing less than them at five years younger. (You could say that Bergeron's defensive play makes him more valuable but the guy has 10 points this year and he's earning almost $9 million.) People are so vague about what first line scoring means. Do you mean a point per game pace? There are only eight of those in the league right now. If you mean that they should both be in the top 90 in scoring (3 first liners x 30 teams), then they are, although with two more or less points they could be in a wildly different position with how condensed the scoring race is now. They're 36 years old, obviously the more time passes the more their skills will deteriorate and their contracts will look bad. That's going to happen with all of these long, big money contracts that are being signed by the time the players are in their late 30s. The bigger problem is the lack of a succession plan developed by management, so fans still target the Sedins for criticism because there's nobody else capable of carrying the torch. If the Sedins were producing at the same pace, but the team had drafted better and was well stocked with young forwards primed to take over when the Sedins retire, nobody would care if they were on pace for 50 point years. But the spotlight is still on them because those prospects aren't here yet. (mic drop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowtieCanuck Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 If two players who have done nothing but give it their all for this club is the reason your team is crashing, then they're not the problem you should be worried about. Montreal understood this very clearly last season and they made the right moves in order to take the heat of their most contributing player. The Sedins could score one goal a season for the rest of their careers here and they would deserve nothing but respect from the fanbase. I'm not surprised that isn't the case, the general fanbase in Vancouver is embarassing and the FANBASE deserves all the crap they get from other teams fans for crap like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingofan Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 12 minutes ago, BowtieCanuck said: If two players who have done nothing but give it their all for this club is the reason your team is crashing, then they're not the problem you should be worried about. Montreal understood this very clearly last season and they made the right moves in order to take the heat of their most contributing player. The Sedins could score one goal a season for the rest of their careers here and they would deserve nothing but respect from the fanbase. I'm not surprised that isn't the case, the general fanbase in Vancouver is embarassing and the FANBASE deserves all the crap they get from other teams fans for crap like this. The easy position is always to defend the Sedin's by citing past performance and the respect they deserve. But my point as a whole goes beyond their pay and their relative low production. It is those two things in combination with what they are saying about their teammates, which is something that they can 100% control. Why are they saying they can't play the same way they used to because our defensemen aren't as good as the ones they used to play with? Why are they saying they want others to step up offensively, when they are the ones being paid to score, and being given #1 PP time? Does this not seem even a little off to you? Why does pointing this out make one an undeserving fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I agree that the Sedins would make great owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjr Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 8 hours ago, bingofan said: I'm not trying to be negative - it's just that if I were a player on this team (e.g., a defenseman working hard just to make it in the NHL, or a journeyman forward), I would get really discouraged at never hearing my leaders call the situation as it is. The Sedin's are leaders, and they make a lot of money. They are also not producing at the rate they are paid to. The least they could do is acknowledge that instead of saying they used to play with better defensemen or that they would like someone to step up offensively. Is that not fair to ask of them? Look how well that worked out for Edmonton. The negative stimulus affected not only the players but the entire organization. Players didn't even want to consider going to Edmonton. Why would the team even encourage Negativity, Negativity only breeds Negativity. Have you never heard that saying? If the Sedin's tossed in the towel on this season, your would see things REALLY get bad. At least they are trying to keep people accountable and teach them how to fight in a pretty futile situation. We do not want the past to rear it's ugly head and deal with tons of pointless seasons in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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