NewbieCanuckFan Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Just now, Alflives said: Is it time to fold our hand and move them? Alf is the Kenny Rogers of this board... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 14 minutes ago, bingofan said: I'm not trying to be negative - it's just that if I were a player on this team (e.g., a defenseman working hard just to make it in the NHL, or a journeyman forward), I would get really discouraged at never hearing my leaders call the situation as it is. The Sedin's are leaders, and they make a lot of money. They are also not producing at the rate they are paid to. The least they could do is acknowledge that instead of saying they used to play with better defensemen or that they would like someone to step up offensively. Is that not fair to ask of them? Players their age nearing the end of their contracts rarely produce equal to their contracts. They do bring other intangibles to the club such as professionalism and fitness level....They still beat out the field when it comes to testing including young bucks who come in out of shape that need to learn from them. Don't think your going to get much traction on this one. And they did have much more capable defense in 2011 which does make an impact on production...Saying that the truth is not unworthy. Not to mention two lines that could score and a second line that could take on the world's best to give them a boost during home games. They likely would see a huge boost in production if you teleported today's Sedins and put them back in 2011. They have never been fast....Personally I have no problem with their current contracts either..It's not like we would see a jump in the standings if we paid some of their salary to other players on the team or would attract a marquee UFA with the 4 million or so that you could trim off it collectively. Burrows and Miller and Ericsson are all been paid for past production. Don't think for a minute that it will be any different for Kopitar Toews or Kane when they hit 35-37. Lol just look how well Kopitar is doing in LA at 10mill plus...And that contract just started. Burrows is resurgent right now but last year it was dreadful but before when he was scoring 35 goals he was making Dorsett like money...That is way these things work. Don't forget to the 10 mill Gillis shelled out for half of Sundins last season....Now there is something to truly sratch your head about. The Sedins never made top money when they were top players and have had a fair compensation for both thrm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaodin Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: Is it time to fold our hand and move them? nah, there is no cure right now. Just gotta suckit up for a while. I'd love to see them win a cup though. Let them ride out their contracts. If they wanna stay, they gotta stay for cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokes Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Sedins can't fire Wille. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingofan Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 7 minutes ago, IBatch said: Players their age nearing the end of their contracts rarely produce equal to their contracts. They do bring other intangibles to the club such as professionalism and fitness level....They still beat out the field when it comes to testing including young bucks who come in out of shape that need to learn from them. Don't think your going to get much traction on this one. And they did have much more capable defense in 2011 which does make an impact on production...Saying that the truth is not unworthy. Not to mention two lines that could score and a second line that could take on the world's best to give them a boost during home games. They likely would see a huge boost in production if you teleported today's Sedins and put them back in 2011. They have never been fast....Personally I have no problem with their current contracts either..It's not like we would see a jump in the standings if we paid some of their salary to other players on the team or would attract a marquee UFA with the 4 million or so that you could trim off it collectively. Burrows and Miller and Ericsson are all been paid for past production. Don't think for a minute that it will be any different for Kopitar Toews or Kane when they hit 35-37. Lol just look how well Kopitar is doing in LA at 10mill plus...And that contract just started. Burrows is resurgent right now but last year it was dreadful but before when he was scoring 35 goals he was making Dorsett like money...That is way these things work. Don't forget to the 10 mill Gillis shelled out for half of Sundins last season....Now there is something to truly sratch your head about. The Sedins never made top money when they were top players and have had a fair compensation for both thrm I agree, but Toews and Kopitar could probably still hit and kill penalties at 36. And I doubt they would attribute their decline in production to the decline in the quality of players surrounding them. Yes, payers decline, and for sure at some point will produce less than what they are being paid for. I am just disappointed that they seem to refuse to acknowledge that (at least in public), and instead seem to deflect the responsibility onto other players making way less money. That's not really showing a lot of leadership in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, bingofan said: I agree, but Toews and Kopitar could probably still hit and kill penalties at 36. And I doubt they would attribute their decline in production to the decline in the quality of players surrounding them. Yes, payers decline, and for sure at some point will produce less than what they are being paid for. I am just disappointed that they seem to refuse to acknowledge that (at least in public), and instead seem to deflect the responsibility onto other players making way less money. That's not really showing a lot of leadership in my opinion. Alf loves the Twins, but is warming to your view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingofan Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 31 minutes ago, Shaodin said: I'm pretty sure that words coming out of their mouth isnt going to make the team any better, who cares what they say. I wouldnt feel better about losing regardless of what they say after. Love the Sedin's. They are passed their prime, not their fault theyre getting older. Can't really fault them for getting paid either. Part of a leader's job is to say the right things. If you don't care what they say, what is the point of having them as leaders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Rocksterh8 said: Knowing Jim, he'll re-sign them until they're 40 for another stupid amount of money. I don't think is as stupid as Gillis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 1 hour ago, ReggieBush said: LMAO Actually Benning will probably offer / throw in a 2nd rd draft pick to sign the Sedins... It's how he swings great deals.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck-lifer Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 27 minutes ago, bingofan said: Part of a leader's job is to say the right things. If you don't care what they say, what is the point of having them as leaders? I think they still say the right things for the most part, as a matter of fact I like what Daniel says more then Henrik. He speaks his mind more often now, out of frustration with the team play of the day and includes himself. eg: his comments on playing a more aggressive game numerous times which goes against Willie's tentative style. Splitting them up also would be a solid wake up call for the whole team, and really not be that risky considering how the rest of the league can read them like a book now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Just now, nuck-lifer said: I think they still say the right things for the most part, as a matter of fact I like what Daniel says more then Henrik. He speaks his mind more often now, out of frustration with the team play of the day and includes himself. eg: his comments on playing a more aggressive game numerous times which goes against Willie's tentative style. Splitting them up also would be a solid wake up call for the whole team, and really not be that risky considering how the rest of the league can read them like a book now. What is the negative of splitting up Hank and Danny. Right now we are 28th out of 30 teams..... With Hank and Dank split up , how much can it negatively effect our clubs wins and losses.... ? Do you think it would cost us the Stanley Cup ? Do you think it may bump us down out of playoff position ? Who is coaching the club ? Is Willie the coach ? Or is Hank and Danny the coach ? Why not fire Willy and let Daniel be player coach if he is calling the shots anyways... Canucks have the worst coach and GM in the NHL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuck-lifer Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 26 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: What is the negative of splitting up Hank and Danny.- absolutely nothing, cant believe Willie didn't already try it this year Right now we are 28th out of 30 teams..... With Hank and Dank split up , how much can it negatively effect our clubs wins and losses.... ? Do you think it would cost us the Stanley Cup ? - nope Do you think it may bump us down out of playoff position ? short term maybe, long term no. Who is coaching the club ? Is Willie the coach ? Or is Hank and Danny the coach ? - Danny dropped of his resume the other day.:) Why not fire Willy and let Daniel be player coach if he is calling the shots anyways... see above Canucks have the worst coach and GM in the NHL - Colorado has something to say about that Bottom line is we have them for another year and a half no matter what the media may say on a slow news day, so why not use them to benefit the team long term , spread them around, and help prepare players on their lines to be better and handle the offensive pressure together.....as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I didn't realize we were in a "situation". If you like to gamble, I tell you I'm your man You win some, lose some, it's all the same to meThe pleasure is to play, makes no difference what you say I don't share your greed, the only card I need is The Ace Of Spades, The Ace Of Spades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Westcoasting said: I don't think is as stupid as Gillis! Gillis has done some pretty dumb things but he's more like Sam Pollock when compared to Benning - in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 2 hours ago, bingofan said: I agree, but Toews and Kopitar could probably still hit and kill penalties at 36. And I doubt they would attribute their decline in production to the decline in the quality of players surrounding them. Yes, payers decline, and for sure at some point will produce less than what they are being paid for. I am just disappointed that they seem to refuse to acknowledge that (at least in public), and instead seem to deflect the responsibility onto other players making way less money. That's not really showing a lot of leadership in my opinion. What are they supposed to say...We are older and don't kill penalties or block shots since Torts left so we've decided to give back part of our hard earned salary? Should E.Staal give CAR back twenty million...They gave an honest answer and I'm pretty sure the younger players aren't suffering for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazzam Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 They are 36 now and shouldn't be relied on as the primary offense. Our drafting failed us big time and we didn't have the next wave ready. I'll go as far back as the Gillis era. Those 5 drafts between 2008 to 2012.. absolutely terrible. No excuses even if we weren't drafting high. We finally got Horvat in 2013 but we had to trade a #1 goalie for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 They took a discount to stay in Vancouver when Burke would have easily thrown more money at their feet. The last thing we should be complaining about is how much the Sedins are paid when they won Hart/Art Ross trophies while on ridiculously cheap contracts. And its not like their contracts are costing this team, the cap situation is hardly dire. All they could do with 14M is sign a couple of Erikssons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 46 minutes ago, IBatch said: Should E.Staal give CAR back twenty million... OT - This is how much respect I have for Bobby Orr (even if he was a Boston Bruin & a member of the Black Hawks in my post LOL)... Quote ....in 1976 Orr signed with Chicago for 3 million dollars over 5 years. Bobby played only 26 games for the Blackhawks.Another display of his character was the fact that Orr returned the few paychecks he received from Chicago, saying that he hadn't earned them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 You might want to watch games or at least post game interviews. I don't even remember a time (after a loss) when they didn't say they had to be better. They have overperformed the value in their contracts for the last 15 years, so maybe cutting a little slack is warranted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingofan Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 12 minutes ago, Toews said: They took a discount to stay in Vancouver when Burke would have easily thrown more money at their feet. The last thing we should be complaining about is how much the Sedins are paid when they won Hart/Art Ross trophies while on ridiculously cheap contracts. And its not like their contracts are costing this team, the cap situation is hardly dire. All they could do with 14M is sign a couple of Erikssons. I understand that part of their salary is for past services rendered. That's fine. My complaint is not just how much they are being paid, but that, in addition, they do not seem to take ownership of their lack of production. Again, saying that they used to play with better defensemen, or that they want others to step up offensively, even if both statements are valid, isn't really showing much leadership. Who should be stepping up? Their teammates that also have PK duties and block shots? Their teammates that have less or no PP opportunities? Their teammates that are making significantly less money? I'm fine with them making the money - I just wish they would take some responsibility for our anemic offence and PP. Goalies sometimes say "I have to make that save." I want to hear the same from the twins once in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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