CanadianRugby Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 3 hours ago, stawns said: So, be the Oilers of the last decade. No thanks. Maybe. Or be the Penguins or Blackhawks. Yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 The difference between finishing 5th or 10th was possibly Austin Mathews. This will continue. Ya, this year is a crap shoot. Does that make last years tank song any more tragic? Probably. FTR, I did not vote and am not even a tanker, more of a hanger-on to the rebuild vision some of us had after the cup run where the team was bullied out of the rink. It still hasn't happened. You strong anti-tankers should take your bow here, for applauding the plan that's locked the team in meandering in and out of 20th place as per the Flames model. Without fans like you, this product could not survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 8 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: It always seems like this is the bottom line. Who would disagree? But, is a rebuild *faster with higher picks that come from moves that don't resemble signing elite, aging wingers, long-term? Will the transition between cores happen faster if they are bottom 5 or 10th? Faster is somewhat suggestive, but Pittsburg, LA, Chicago and Edmonton at least went for it, with some success, with the Coilers yet to win, but they will. I'll take that over being the old Flamers/Leafs, thanks. This, you just don't get, it works. You also don't get that nobody cares to watch paint dry, meanwhile, as the Swedes expire, they'll leave a massive void with only Horvat, a secondary scorer, to fill the gap. That gap will be there, tank or not, how long it lasts, we can differ on. Exactly how well has it worked for Edmonton. A decade and they're still not a contender. Paint drying is a matter of perspective. I've enjoyed a lot of the games this season. But nobody likes to watch a team with no hope. When the team is set up to lose what's the point of watching then? By the time the Sedins retire we'll at least have a prospect pool. Then the "massive void" will get us those top picks. I've said it repeatedly, Chicago and Pittsburgh both got their two elite players at the end of their rebuild, not the beginning. It's why their teams could contend so early in the elite guys career. A lot of pieces were in place first. That's the part that has kept Edmonton down. Elite picks with no support in place. We're doing it the right way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: Maybe. Or be the Penguins or Blackhawks. Yes please. The Blackhawks and Pens built a prospect pool before landing their elite talent. Do it backwards (elite prospects first) and you get Edmonton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 22 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: It always seems like this is the bottom line. Who would disagree? But, is a rebuild *faster with higher picks that come from moves that don't resemble signing elite, aging wingers, long-term? Will the transition between cores happen faster if they are bottom 5 or 10th? Faster is somewhat suggestive, but Pittsburg, LA, Chicago and Edmonton at least went for it, with some success, with the Coilers yet to win, but they will. I'll take that over being the old Flamers/Leafs, thanks. This, you just don't get, it works. You also don't get that nobody cares to watch paint dry, meanwhile, as the Swedes expire, they'll leave a massive void with only Horvat, a secondary scorer, to fill the gap. That gap will be there, tank or not, how long it lasts, we can differ on. So you're telling us that a team like LA, who had Rob Blake, Visnovsky, Nagy, Armstrong, etc, basically a lot of guys above 30, purposely tanked to get Doughty the following year at 2? Are you also telling us a team like Chicago didn't have older players like Barnaby, Aucoin, Spacek, etc and instead went completely young to draft Kane and Toews? The teams that so called "tanked" actually had a number of players over 30. They didn't just get rid of all of their veterans. This is where tankers don't even understand what other teams actually did. They just see "oh this team must have tanked as they went to the bottom of the standings" and they essentially make that assumption. No logic. Just assumptions. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but what you seem to be suggesting, we shouldn't have any older players on the team and fill those gaps with all AHL players. Except, Chicago and LA didn't even do that. They didn't get rid of their veteran presence. Instead, they're doing what we're doing now. Just tankers want us to go the extra mile and get rid of everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 On 2017-01-02 at 5:43 PM, Baggins said: Exactly how well has it worked for Edmonton. A decade and they're still not a contender. Paint drying is a matter of perspective. I've enjoyed a lot of the games this season. But nobody likes to watch a team with no hope. When the team is set up to lose what's the point of watching then? By the time the Sedins retire we'll at least have a prospect pool. Then the "massive void" will get us those top picks. I've said it repeatedly, Chicago and Pittsburgh both got their two elite players at the end of their rebuild, not the beginning. It's why their teams could contend so early in the elite guys career. A lot of pieces were in place first. That's the part that has kept Edmonton down. Elite picks with no support in place. We're doing it the right way around. The Coilers had poor management, can you agree? This team could do better in that regard. Im not here to change your mind. In my opinion, this prospect pool being weak is a result of TL dragging his feet on committing to a rebuild. To make that worse, he's said things about fairness, which I dont need to quote. The rebuild, or whatever they're calling it today, is late coming. I disagree with your last few sentences. See you at the draft! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 On 2017-01-02 at 5:46 PM, The Lock said: So you're telling us that a team like LA, who had Rob Blake, Visnovsky, Nagy, Armstrong, etc, basically a lot of guys above 30, purposely tanked to get Doughty the following year at 2? Are you also telling us a team like Chicago didn't have older players like Barnaby, Aucoin, Spacek, etc and instead went completely young to draft Kane and Toews? The teams that so called "tanked" actually had a number of players over 30. They didn't just get rid of all of their veterans. This is where tankers don't even understand what other teams actually did. They just see "oh this team must have tanked as they went to the bottom of the standings" and they essentially make that assumption. No logic. Just assumptions. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but what you seem to be suggesting, we shouldn't have any older players on the team and fill those gaps with all AHL players. Except, Chicago and LA didn't even do that. They didn't get rid of their veteran presence. Instead, they're doing what we're doing now. Just tankers want us to go the extra mile and get rid of everyone. Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: The Coilers had poor management, can you agree? This team could do better in that regard. Im not here to change your mind. In my opinion, this prospect pool being weak is a result of TL dragging his feet on committing to a rebuild. To make that worse, he's said things about fairness, which I dont need to quote. The rebuild, or whatever they're calling it today, is late coming. I disagree with your last few sentences. See you at the draft! This little run of three wins has many believing the Koolaide induced visions. Will people wake up when we lose to the worst team in the league tonight, while being out shot and sitting back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 On 2017-01-02 at 5:45 PM, Baggins said: The Blackhawks and Pens built a prospect pool before landing their elite talent. Do it backwards (elite prospects first) and you get Edmonton. Drafting high is better than low. End of, Baggins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 Just now, 189lb enforcers? said: Nope. Then what are you trying to say then? Elaborate rather than just saying "nope"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 On 2017-01-02 at 5:55 PM, The Lock said: Then what are you trying to say then? Elaborate rather than just saying "nope"? Sorry, Canada is playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 On 01/01/2017 at 5:20 PM, Alflives said: I agree. Those four have forgotten more about hockey than posters on CDC (cumulatively) will ever know. Then let them do there job...lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Sorry, Canada is playing. I will wait until later then. I can tell you're getting frustrated with Baggins and others anyway. You don't seem to be winning much of anything in this thread. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 27 minutes ago, stawns said: Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive? I'd say that a young core taking over and an older, moderately stale core moving out easily exist at the same time. I don't get who tankers think are going to fill roster spots if they ship out all the vets........it certainly won't be young canucks prospects, there aren't enough in the system yet. There have been very few teams that have accomplished remaining elite or competitive while "changing" the core, Detroit and Montreal, both were accomplished decades ago and both by trading for assets that were more than just roster spot players. Most recent, Detroit, but they also "mined" Europe before most other NHL teams to find players like Datsyuk and Zettebutg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: There have been very few teams that have accomplished remaining elite or competitive while "changing" the core, Detroit and Montreal, both were accomplished decades ago and both by trading for assets that were more than just roster spot players. Most recent, Detroit, but they also "mined" Europe before most other NHL teams to find players like Datsyuk and Zettebutg Almost every team does it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattrek Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 The only one I may want to go is Willie and his coaching the last 4 games is slowly changing my mind. He may have finally gotten the hang of properly deploying players and making in game adjustments. Benning and Linden are gold. JB in particular doesn't get nearly enough credit on these boards for what he's assembled in a very short 2 year span. If what we've watched over the last week is any sign of what's to come I definitely want to see where they take us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 17 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said: The Coilers had poor management, can you agree? Poor drafting imo. With all the high picks in each round they've had over the past decade they should be far further along with decent depth. The only part they've done well with is their high first round picks. Not much drafting skill in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Hockey Place Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 What's interesting is the example of bad management is always the Oilers. During a time when we had the most success. Maybe it's time to admit VAN had good management and a good team during those times? So many people talk about the Gillis era as a failure based on the ending. We all take the earlier success for granted because of the disappointment of not winning it all. And really, all anyone wants is that success that we once had. For this team to be a force again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 19 hours ago, Baggins said: The Blackhawks and Pens built a prospect pool before landing their elite talent. Do it backwards (elite prospects first) and you get Edmonton. For the most part you're right, but they did it by having a ton of draft picks (especially Blackhawks) so it appears Vancouver is doing it backwards too. I'm excited about some of our prospects, but not all of them will turn out and we don't have nearly enough of them. Add to that the fact that we probably won't be drafting any elite prospects due to our spot in the standings, we're about as opposite of the Hawks and Pens as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacious Crumb Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 21 hours ago, Alflives said: This little run of three wins has many believing the Koolaide induced visions. Will people wake up when we lose to the worst team in the league tonight, while being out shot and sitting back? How'd that prediction work out for ya? I was at the game and it was a snorefest. Tryamkin looked good tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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