What do you want to see out of a New Management Team?

[stawns]

On 31/12/2016 at 10:45 AM, 189lb enforcers? said:

Yes. Also, who remembers when Naslind, Jovo, Ohlund... Walked away? No compensation. 

 

Let's also not forget that TL was an epic PR move to appease the circus surrounding Tortz and the Gillis f-ups. If nostalgic appeal is all it takes to maintain the fan base, Aquaman deserves credit for employing it. JB has been okay to me only because he has brought in some character and toughness. I think he is being held back from putting together a Canadian-style hockey team. 

 

Rather than watching a young core develop, we get to watch a stale core expire.

 

This team should have been stripped as early as 2012 so that a retool could have been properly executed. Instead, a rebuild of a roster loaded with the Prez's buddies is 'mission impossible'. This is where any negativity towards to the team comes from - Many knew this team was destined to bottom out, but was managed as if it were not. When I hear someone call that opinion "hindsight" I tune out. 

 

I'm betting that the bottom is still a few years away and that it's going to get worse than this current bottom 5 team. I'm fine with it, as long as the Canucks don't come to the world and profess they are a playoff team. If they continue to play Sedin-style, turn-the-other-cheek, turn your back hockey while sinking to the bottom, I'd support some measure of change. 

 

 

 

 

Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive? I'd say that a young core taking over and an older, moderately stale core moving out easily exist at the same time.

 

I don't get who tankers think are going to fill roster spots if they ship out all the vets........it certainly won't be young canucks prospects, there aren't enough in the system yet.

[189lb enforcers?]

On 2017-01-02 at 10:38 AM, stawns said:

Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive? I'd say that a young core taking over and an older, moderately stale core moving out easily exist at the same time.

 

I don't get who tankers think are going to fill roster spots if they ship out all the vets........it certainly won't be young canucks prospects, there aren't enough in the system yet.

Tankers wanted picks for the past few years and still cling to hope of missed opportunity to find players. Empathy got in the way? 

 

And I don't get why anti-tankers would rather watch the Sedins and Edler take the place of projects, prospects, or plugs even, while the team does it's transition, since the results are predictable if not repetitive. It's like I'm watching some skinny Spaniard stab a cow over and over while it bleeds, waiting for it's certain death. Why there are empty cupboards is part of the point in a call for change. 

 

I'm not pretending to know for any certainty here, but I don't think it's hard to look in the cupboard and see all but one top 6 forward coming along to insulate a pathetic replacement forward core of Horvat, Barcheese, Virtanen, Granlund... it's too depressing to keep going. Which is why I said that this *accidental high pick we are/we're looking at fosters the notion of change in management. This team is going to watch the Sedins and co leave and replace them with what, hope? Had the team performed to management's obvious mandate, they'd be picking mid pack for the next two years, making this cow-stabbing even more of a drawn out death of a core. 

 

I understand the flip-side of the rebuild process where all moves carry risk, especially draft picks. Still, picking high is better than low. It works in the first rounds. What I don't understand is how it is more entertaining to watch a core die, rather than experiment and run the odds of high picks turning into impact players. The former, being a transitional parallel into further tedium of mediocrity. The later, being anything but a predictable decline and something to be excited about. For all the posts I've read on here about folks being excited by the future, I don't share it. If Hutton and Barcheese excite you, you're easily amused. These are not impact players and would constitute a soft core, regardless. If an alternate plan is to fill gaps with FAs then best of luck. Can't say it's worked well here before. 

 

If this rebuild/retool/remake/rehash is going to work, it should have started yesterday.  There's only one way out of this slow march into mid pack and it's to rip off the bandaid and not waste Horvat. I'd rather be excited by some risk than by the current plan that will see this team fade away instead. Shannaplan over "fairness". 

[CeeBee51]

5 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Tankers wanted picks for the past few years and still cling to hope of missed opportunity to find players. Empathy got in the way? 

 

And I don't get why anti-tankers would rather watch the Sedins and Edler take the place of projects, prospects, or plugs even, while the team does it's transition, since the results are predictable if not repetitive. It's like I'm watching some skinny Spaniard stab a cow over and over while it bleeds, waiting for it's certain death. Why there are empty cupboards is part of the point in a call for change. 

 

I'm not pretending to know for any certainty here, but I don't think it's hard to look in the cupboard and see all but one top 6 forward coming along to insulate a pathetic replacement forward core of Horvat, Barcheese, Virtanen, Granlund... it's too depressing to keep going. Which is why I said that this *accidental high pick we are/we're looking at fosters the notion of change in management. This team is going to watch the Sedins and co leave and replace them with what, hope? Had the team performed to management's obvious mandate, they'd be picking mid pack for the next two years, making this cow-stabbing even more of a drawn out death of a core. 

 

I understand the flip-side of the rebuild process where all moves carry risk, especially draft picks. Still, picking high is better than low. It works in the first rounds. What I don't understand is how it is more entertaining to watch a core die, rather than experiment and run the odds of high picks turning into impact players. The former, being a transitional parallel into further tedium of mediocrity. The later, being anything but a predictable decline and something to be excited about. For all the posts I've read on here about folks being excited by the future, I don't share it. If Hutton and Barcheese excite you, you're easily amused. These are not impact players and would constitute a soft core, regardless. If an alternate plan is to fill gaps with FAs then best of luck. Can't say it's worked well here before. 

 

If this rebuild/retool/remake/rehash is going to work, it should have started yesterday.  There's only one way out of this slow march into mid pack and it's to rip off the bandaid and not waste Horvat. I'd rather be excited by some risk than by the current plan that will see this team fade away instead. Shannaplan over "fairness". 

Sounds like you'd be better off watching golf or tennis for the next few years.

[stawns]

36 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Tankers wanted picks for the past few years and still cling to hope of missed opportunity to find players. Empathy got in the way? 

 

And I don't get why anti-tankers would rather watch the Sedins and Edler take the place of projects, prospects, or plugs even, while the team does it's transition, since the results are predictable if not repetitive. It's like I'm watching some skinny Spaniard stab a cow over and over while it bleeds, waiting for it's certain death. Why there are empty cupboards is part of the point in a call for change. 

 

I'm not pretending to know for any certainty here, but I don't think it's hard to look in the cupboard and see all but one top 6 forward coming along to insulate a pathetic replacement forward core of Horvat, Barcheese, Virtanen, Granlund... it's too depressing to keep going. Which is why I said that this *accidental high pick we are/we're looking at fosters the notion of change in management. This team is going to watch the Sedins and co leave and replace them with what, hope? Had the team performed to management's obvious mandate, they'd be picking mid pack for the next two years, making this cow-stabbing even more of a drawn out death of a core. 

 

I understand the flip-side of the rebuild process where all moves carry risk, especially draft picks. Still, picking high is better than low. It works in the first rounds. What I don't understand is how it is more entertaining to watch a core die, rather than experiment and run the odds of high picks turning into impact players. The former, being a transitional parallel into further tedium of mediocrity. The later, being anything but a predictable decline and something to be excited about. For all the posts I've read on here about folks being excited by the future, I don't share it. If Hutton and Barcheese excite you, you're easily amused. These are not impact players and would constitute a soft core, regardless. If an alternate plan is to fill gaps with FAs then best of luck. Can't say it's worked well here before. 

 

If this rebuild/retool/remake/rehash is going to work, it should have started yesterday.  There's only one way out of this slow march into mid pack and it's to rip off the bandaid and not waste Horvat. I'd rather be excited by some risk than by the current plan that will see this team fade away instead. Shannaplan over "fairness". 

My point is, who fills those roster spots?

[189lb enforcers?]

On 2017-01-02 at 11:53 AM, CeeBee51 said:

Sounds like you'd be better off watching golf or tennis for the next few years.

I don't disagree. I watch less and less, so I might find time to play more. I've only watched two this year in Rogers. 

 

It doesn't diminish my desire to see the team to succeed or make me less of a fan.

 

I've been through enough as a fan, having seen all 3 cup runs (playing street hockey during the intermissions in '82 as a 9 year-old counts?), that I don't require any Creed fandom with CDC and can post without fear of the dreaded minus or Superfans quoting my flockless posts. 

 

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

On 2017-01-02 at 0:24 PM, stawns said:

My point is, who fills those roster spots?

And what a fine question on why there is nobody in the system or why there is no extra picks or known plan to acquire filler.

The tankers have recognized this for a few years and want that rectified and fast tracked by trading vets, etc. Well documented on this fan site. 

[appleboy]

3 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I don't disagree. I watch less and less, so I might find time to play more. I've only watched two this year in Rogers. 

 

It doesn't diminish my desire to see the team to succeed or make me less of a fan.

 

I've been through enough as a fan, having seen all 3 cup runs (playing street hockey during the intermissions in '82 as 9 year-old counts?), that I don't require any Creed fandom with CDC and can post without fear of the dreaded minus or Superfans quoting my flockless quotes. 

 

 

 

The nice thing is that other fans can get tickets that would otherwise not be available or just priced out of their reach. Once the club gets back on track it will be a difficult ticket to acquire once again.

[stawns]

36 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

And what a fine question on why there is nobody in the system or why there is no extra picks or known plan to acquire filler.

The tankers have recognized this for a few years and want that rectified and fast tracked by trading vets, etc. Well documented on this fan site. 

History aside, who do they fill those roster spots with?  

[CeeBee51]

32 minutes ago, stawns said:

History aside, who do they fill those roster spots with?  

Either Barney, Fred or Joe Rockhead... or maybe Homer, Moe or Mr Burns? 

[CanadianRugby]

39 minutes ago, stawns said:

History aside, who do they fill those roster spots with?  

Free agents, minor leaguers, prospects you get back in trades.  Leafs and Blackhawks managed to ice teams when they traded for all those draft picks. 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Free agents, minor leaguers, prospects you get back in trades.  Leafs and Blackhawks managed to ice teams when they traded for all those draft picks. 

 

So, be the Oilers of the last decade.  No thanks.

[Baggins]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

So, be the Oilers of the last decade.  No thanks.

 

This is what they don't get. You fill the team with AHL players and unwanted ufa's and you guarantee being at the bottom. But when you have an empty prospect pool as well you have nothing at all to go with that top 3 pick. Meaning you're still 5+ years away rebuilding. The added bonus is you've pretty much wasted the first 5 years or more of that top 3 pick. That's the Edmonton path. 

 

Both Chicago and Pittsburgh got their elite picks after 5 years of rebuilding. That's the path I see us going. There's just no such thing as a fast rebuild.

[mll]

27 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Free agents, minor leaguers, prospects you get back in trades.  Leafs and Blackhawks managed to ice teams when they traded for all those draft picks. 

 

You want Horvat to develop no?  Horvat was 5pts in the first 13 games of the season.  Baer was 2pts in 13 games.  Replace Skille/Virtanen by Burrows on their line and it's:

 

20pts in 25 games for Horvat - that's a 0.8 pace bringing him at 0.66 over the season.

18pts in the 22 games he played for Baer - that's also a 0.8 pace (now 0.57 over the season).  

 

You can't disregard the importance of quality veterans to develop young players.  It even accelerates development as they share their experience and bring stability to lines that less solid/inexperienced players cannot do.

[fabiogooseface]

20 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

 

WD could have coached that Tampa team to a Stanley Cup win especially over the fluke Flames team. 

 

Torts tenure in Vancouver he was a shell of his former self and coached like he didn't give a crap. 

 

Staying at home and letting the assistant coaches run practice, pathetic. 

His first year at Columbus didn't exactly go very well either, but look at him now. Who knows how he would have done with a 2nd year with the Canucks.

[appleboy]

3 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Tankers wanted picks for the past few years and still cling to hope of missed opportunity to find players. Empathy got in the way? 

 

And I don't get why anti-tankers would rather watch the Sedins and Edler take the place of projects, prospects, or plugs even, while the team does it's transition, since the results are predictable if not repetitive. It's like I'm watching some skinny Spaniard stab a cow over and over while it bleeds, waiting for it's certain death. Why there are empty cupboards is part of the point in a call for change. 

 

I'm not pretending to know for any certainty here, but I don't think it's hard to look in the cupboard and see all but one top 6 forward coming along to insulate a pathetic replacement forward core of Horvat, Barcheese, Virtanen, Granlund... it's too depressing to keep going. Which is why I said that this *accidental high pick we are/we're looking at fosters the notion of change in management. This team is going to watch the Sedins and co leave and replace them with what, hope? Had the team performed to management's obvious mandate, they'd be picking mid pack for the next two years, making this cow-stabbing even more of a drawn out death of a core. 

 

I understand the flip-side of the rebuild process where all moves carry risk, especially draft picks. Still, picking high is better than low. It works in the first rounds. What I don't understand is how it is more entertaining to watch a core die, rather than experiment and run the odds of high picks turning into impact players. The former, being a transitional parallel into further tedium of mediocrity. The later, being anything but a predictable decline and something to be excited about. For all the posts I've read on here about folks being excited by the future, I don't share it. If Hutton and Barcheese excite you, you're easily amused. These are not impact players and would constitute a soft core, regardless. If an alternate plan is to fill gaps with FAs then best of luck. Can't say it's worked well here before. 

 

If this rebuild/retool/remake/rehash is going to work, it should have started yesterday.  There's only one way out of this slow march into mid pack and it's to rip off the bandaid and not waste Horvat. I'd rather be excited by some risk than by the current plan that will see this team fade away instead. Shannaplan over "fairness". 

A lot of the tank crowd that I know were all in because of the quality of the draft years. The last two were deep with franchise players at the top. So to me it depends on when you tank.

I was never a believer in dumping all of the vets because I feel that you need them to help develop. The Oilers ruined a lot of first overall picks. Anyway the way the draft is set up now, I believe that full blown tanking is a thing of the past.

Linden and Benning have managed to fill some holes with young players and so going forward you would hope that our draft picks will kept. Maybe even adding one or two when possible.

I wish they would split the twins up. They are doing it in overtime and it works. They are still very skilled and are our best play makers/passers. I am not sure they have slowed down I just think the league is quicker and have figured them out. It would add an entirely new dynamic to the team.

[The Lock]

If we ended up with a new management team now, we'd be back to this discussion in 2 years.

 

Can we see through what our GM wants to do for once? This kind of thought process of "wah management sucks after only 2 years" is what makes our team suck, not the management itself.

 

If we want a good team then we're going to have to earn it. It's not going to be handed to us on a silver platter. (and no I'm not for tanking either. I actually like the route we're headed)

[Sbriggs]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

My point is, who fills those roster spots?

Ya I agree with buddy maybe you should exit for a couple years and not feel the pain with all of us as we watch this re-tool. Your attitude sucks and if its not hard enough for the rest of us, we have to read your crap

[The Lock]

3 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

And what a fine question on why there is nobody in the system or why there is no extra picks or known plan to acquire filler.

The tankers have recognized this for a few years and want that rectified and fast tracked by trading vets, etc. Well documented on this fan site. 

 

The tankers are expecting a magical cinderella story in which a 1st overall pick will fit a magical slipper and we all live happily ever after.

 

The reality is it doesn't work the way the tankers see it. It's a lot harder than it looks. This isn't a video game which most tankers seem to want to make it out to be. You can't just trade a veteran and get everything you wanted out of it. You can't just tank in the draft and expect to get the pick you wanted. In fact, the odds are actually AGAINST getting 1st, 2nd, and 3rd overall even if you finish last in the league. Think about that.

 

Tankers basically see things that don't even exist....

[canuck73_3]

2 hours ago, fabiogooseface said:

His first year at Columbus didn't exactly go very well either, but look at him now. Who knows how he would have done with a 2nd year with the Canucks.

 

As long as he was staying home at Point Roberts and having assistants run practice he was not going to have control of the room. 

[189lb enforcers?]

On 2017-01-02 at 2:07 PM, Baggins said:

 

This is what they don't get. 

 

There's just no such thing as a fast rebuild.

It always seems like this is the bottom line. Who would disagree?

 

But, is a rebuild *faster with higher picks that come from moves that don't resemble signing elite, aging wingers, long-term?

Will the transition between cores happen faster if they are bottom 5 or 10th?

Faster is somewhat suggestive, but Pittsburg, LA, Chicago and Edmonton at least went for it, with some success, with the Coilers yet to win, but they will. I'll take that over being the old Flamers/Leafs, thanks. This, you just don't get, it works. You also don't get that nobody cares to watch paint dry, meanwhile, as the Swedes expire, they'll leave a massive void with only Horvat, a secondary scorer, to fill the gap. That gap will be there, tank or not, how long it lasts, we can differ on.