Deal With Mtl(Proposal)

[Nuxfanabroad]

Been thinking about this the last day or two. They say when the ship is sinking, other GM's will just throw you boat anchors. It's hard to deal regulars when you're playing well, but must be the moment you'll extract the best return(for your assets).

 

There are a number of reasons I'll make this proposal:

 

- numbers of fwds/D we(& Mtl) can protect at expansion

- Utilizing Tanev to his maximum-value. By making his supposedly mediocre partner, an NHL-calibre player. Recall Pedan, with CT, he'll probably flourish

- Getting JB more picks to work his magic

- Upgrading our younger assets

- Because I'd say Mtl fancies themselves as legitimate contenders, probably much further ahead than we are(not saying it's necessarily true)

- Habs have had a rash of injuries. Relative value of picks is rising now, but they might spend them due to bad health

 

Van sends:

Sbisa(with Petry & Weber, they'd have 3 to protect, & expose Emelin)

Granlund(Rodin, Boucher or Megna can cover his assignment)

Brisebois(local Quebec boy, for Habs)

 

MTL sends:

Desharnais(to even out cap, when cleared from LTIR; off books, yr-end)

Juulsen(local boy, upgrade on Brisebois)

2017 2nd

2018 2nd

- I don't know if we should expect one more asset(eg: young fwd prospect), or upgrade a 2nd to a 2018 1st(conditional on Mtl's PO-progress?)

 

Would time such a deal around late Jan/early Feb..closer to when Jannik Hansen returns.

 

Protected at Expansion draft: Twins, Bo, Baer, Eriksson, Sutter, Hansen.(7)

D: Tanev, Edler, Gudbranson

 

LINEUP:

 

Daniel Hank Hansen/Megna

Baerstchi Bo Burrows

Rodin/Boucher Sutter Eriksson

Gaunce Chaput Skille

 

Edler Stecher

Pedan Tanev

Hutton Tryamkin        extra: Biega, Gudbranson

[Twilight Sparkle]

rodin (overrated) boucher and ****ing smegna replacing granlund. please. no. pedan is an ahl defensemen at best. i like sbisa where he is now

[Drakrami]

deal is decent. we get some upgraded future while shaving off some fat. 

[timberz21]

Sbisa and Desharnais is pretty much a wash, but I still think Sbisa provides us with great depth and more valuable than Desharnais.

 

Juulsen + 2 x 2nd  >>> Brisebois, Grandlund

 

 

I don't see what Montreal gain in this trade.   They won't give up Juulsen and two 2nd rounder, just to make room for the expansion draft.

[PlanB]

Sbisa is doing fine right now and is proving to be valuable depth with our injuries - much rather expose Biega - get'em those games JB!

Juulsen - debatable how much better he's going to be than Breeze-boi.  Plus Juulsen already has concussion history issues. 

Mtl picks might as well be considered a full round later than they are labeled for how high they'll finish in the standings. 

 

This proposal isn't sexy at all - hard pass on this. 

[qwijibo]

Montreal will need to protect Beaulieu in addition to Petry and Weber.  Sbisa doesn't fill any need for them and creates a problem come expansion. Granlund is an nhl body that can fill in for their injuries in the top 9 but certainly isn't worth a substantial downgrade in defence prospects and 2 2nds. Easy pass from Montreal

[JM_]

Maybe something could be done if Markov's knees or groin continue to break down before the TDL and he's out long term. But I think it would be a bit simpler, maybe just a straight trade for something like a  2nd and 5th round pick and MTL uses its LTIR to deal with the cap hit. 

 

But the way Sbisa's been playing last season and this its a tough decision now, its a real improvement and not a flash thing. Some analysts have Sbisa being picked by Vegas, others don't. I do think they would take him over Granlund e.g., so my guess is Sbisa will be shopped pretty hard, only due to expansion. 

 

 

[qwijibo]

24 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

Maybe something could be done if Markov's knees or groin continue to break down before the TDL and he's out long term. But I think it would be a bit simpler, maybe just a straight trade for something like a  2nd and 5th round pick and MTL uses its LTIR to deal with the cap hit. 

 

But the way Sbisa's been playing last season and this its a tough decision now, its a real improvement and not a flash thing. Some analysts have Sbisa being picked by Vegas, others don't. I do think they would take him over Granlund e.g., so my guess is Sbisa will be shopped pretty hard, only due to expansion. 

 

 

Markov has been remarkably healthy since the lockout.  This is the first injury he's had in that time.  He and Galchenyuk have reportedly rejoined the team in Toronto. 

[Ronaldoescobar]

For Juulsen and 2 second round picks Montreal would probably start the bidding at OJ+ (which may be Granlund) but Brisbois would be way too far down the prospect ladder to be of any interest.   

[cripplereh]

makes no sense for us at this time to get more players to tank!

 

we want our young guys to know how to win not get stuck at the bottom

[JM_]

44 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Markov has been remarkably healthy since the lockout.  This is the first injury he's had in that time.  He and Galchenyuk have reportedly rejoined the team in Toronto. 

 

Sure, but 38 is 38. Once that sh!t is broke it doesn't heal up like when you're 20. Its a big "if" but its the only way I see Sbisa heading to MTL. 

[qwijibo]

Just now, S'all Good Man said:

 

Sure, but 38 is 38. Once that sh!t is broke it doesn't heal up like when you're 20. Its a big "if" but its the only way I see Sbisa heading to MTL. 

Even then.  Montreal has a number of defencemen of Sbisa's calibre (or at least close enough where it's not worth spending an asset on Sbisa) I don't see a fit 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Even then.  Montreal has a number of defencemen of Sbisa's calibre (or at least close enough where it's not worth spending an asset on Sbisa) I don't see a fit 

 

Well thats the debate right? I think he's taken a legit step up to an effective #4 but I'm not negotiating for Montreal 

[qwijibo]

22 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Well thats the debate right? I think he's taken a legit step up to an effective #4 but I'm not negotiating for Montreal 

Whether he is or he isn't. Montreal isn't going to acquire him only to end up having to expose him at the draft. He may have taken a step in his development, but so has beaulieu. Of the 2 you protect Beaulieu 10 out of 10 times 

[Nuxfanabroad]

What's the price for cap space? Hard to say. Mtl dumps Desharnais' 3.5, & replaces it(mostly) with an exp'd D, in his prime-age.

 

Having our cap scenario relatively well-set, allows us to extract future resources in such a deal. With Mtl's fwd-fragility, Granny's included as a further sweetener.

 

If Mtl truly feels they are contenders(with Price/Weber, in their prime & affordably-retained), they've probably got to consider this type of deal. Teams like Anaheim could likely send a better package, so I don't know precisely what we could land.

 

Of course, the return would have to be worthwhile.

 

Tried to present the framework of a deal that would be palatable to both sides, for a variety of reasons. Near deadline, we should see a few of these types, as GM's try to adjust lineups to accomodate expansion-requirements.

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Whether he is or he isn't. Montreal isn't going to acquire him only to end up having to expose him at the draft. He may have taken a step in his development, but so has beaulieu. Of the 2 you protect Beaulieu 10 out of 10 times 

 

Why not? the hockey writers and TSN project Vegas picking AHL calibre players from Montreal, and sportsnet has them picking Emelin. And Sbisa is an upgrade on Emelin. Not a huge one but he's younger, improving all the time and does have better numbers: http://dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_compare.php?compare[]=2970&compare[]=2057&sent=go&games=2016-2017%3AR%3A99

 

If Markov goes down, it does make sense. MTL will leave him exposed, and they either lose Sbisa or have a younger version of Emelin for a little bit cheaper of a cap hit. They either lose Emelin for nothing, or gain Sbisa for a pick. Markov is also a UFA and probably done in MTL. 

[qwijibo]

14 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

What's the price for cap space? Hard to say. Mtl dumps Desharnais' 3.5, & replaces it(mostly) with an exp'd D, in his prime-age.

 

Having our cap scenario relatively well-set, allows us to extract future resources in such a deal. With Mtl's fwd-fragility, Granny's included as a further sweetener.

 

If Mtl truly feels they are contenders(with Price/Weber, in their prime & affordably-retained), they've probably got to consider this type of deal. Teams like Anaheim could likely send a better package, so I don't know precisely what we could land.

 

Of course, the return would have to be worthwhile.

 

Tried to present the framework of a deal that would be palatable to both sides, for a variety of reasons. Near deadline, we should see a few of these types, as GM's try to adjust lineups to accomodate expansion-requirements.

You're grasping at straws trying to make a square peg fit a round hole. Montreal doesn't save on cap space here. They take on $1m in cap. It also hamstrings them at the expansion draft.  

 

Sbisa simply isn't a need in Montreal. Granlund could be useful. But not st the price you're suggesting 

[qwijibo]

2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Why not? the hockey writers and TSN project Vegas picking AHL calibre players from Montreal, and sportsnet has them picking Emelin. And Sbisa is an upgrade on Emelin. Not a huge one but he's younger, improving all the time and does have better numbers: http://dobberhockey.com/frozenpool_compare.php?compare[]=2970&compare[]=2057&sent=go&games=2016-2017%3AR%3A99

 

If Markov goes down, it does make sense. MTL will leave him exposed, and they either lose Sbisa or have a younger version of Emelin for a little bit cheaper of a cap hit. They either lose Emelin for nothing, or gain Sbisa for a pick. Markov is also a UFA and probably done in MTL. 

Markov' cobtract expires at the end of the season. So they won't be protecting him either way. As things stand right now they'll protect Weber, Petry and Beaulieu. Exposing Emelin. If they acquire Sbisa they're still going to protect Beaulieu over Sbisa.   So it's not a matter of choosing Sbisa over Emelin. It's a matter of choosing Sbisa over Beaulieu. 

[Phil_314]

We don't need Desharnais (4 solid centers), they don't need Sbisa (Beaulieu as one D to protect).

After that, depending on how badly Benning wants Juulsen (maybe as a future right-side D-man?  We have a couple of young guys already on the team) he may give Granlund up?  Thing is though, Byron is putting up decent numbers and their top-6 wingers are solid (Patches, Gallagher, Byron, Radulov) so at most they could help solidify the bottom-6 with Markus, so would they give Noah up for him, and would we give Markus up when he's doing well with Sutter and Eriksson?  This team doesn't look like it wants to keep on rebuilding for the future either, so I don't see how this move would fit either when the team's lacking up front already, and I doubt they need another defenseman.