WeneedLumme Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 hour ago, stuman491 said: Down Goes Brown wrote about the different ways the NHL could fix their draft lottery system. My personal favourite which will eliminate the 20 teams that should be competing for 1st overall is the Wheel Method. Every team drafts in the same order all the time. In other words every team is gets the 1st overall pick every 30 years. A top 6 pick every 5 years and a top twelve every 4 years. Its a good idea and eliminates any need for tanking. Except, of course, this substantially reduces parity in the league. Which is the whole purpose of allowing weaker teams to pick before the stronger teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 What is tanking? Isn't it losing intentionally? Who has ever done this? Is it trading away assets to gain younger players or prospects and/or draft picks... every team tanks if that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Westcoasting said: What is tanking? Isn't it losing intentionally? Who has ever done this? Is it trading away assets to gain younger players or prospects and/or draft picks... every team tanks if that is the case. Teams have done it. Pittsburgh (Lemeuix) and Ottawa (Daigle) were obvious ones. But to me tanking is management making moves to ensure they have a weak team from the beginning of the season. Thus setting the team up to have a losing season. I have no problem with teams out of the playoff picture selling off pending ufa's to playoff teams. I do have a problem with teams intentionally weakening their team to become a bottom feeder from the get go. I wouldn't pay a cent to a team I know was set up to have a losing season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Baggins said: Teams have done it. Pittsburgh (Lemeuix) and Ottawa (Daigle) were obvious ones. But to me tanking is management making moves to ensure they have a weak team from the beginning of the season. Thus setting the team up to have a losing season. I have no problem with teams out of the playoff picture selling off pending ufa's to playoff teams. I do have a problem with teams intentionally weakening their team to become a bottom feeder from the get go. I wouldn't pay a cent to a team I know was set up to have a losing season. Let's build on your conviction. If a team, like Vancouver, this season or last, were to *not wait for the TDL to strategically sell off expiring assets for picks and prospects, and intentionally, temporarily "weaken" the the roster, with the goal of creating internal competition and opportunities, like Megna, for instance, to enjoy, would you not embrace that as much as the tankers? To me, the only thing stopping this from looking like a rebuild is the roster packed full of assets in full decline, eliminating that competition. Instead, there is only room for a few and they certainly aren't the traded assets that one could at least enjoy losing with. Instead, we watch vets occupy key minutes and career plugs, not building blocks, as this thing coats to full stop. What would be the difference? Intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riviera82 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 6 hours ago, Baggins said: I know how many teams make the playoffs. But he said what's the point making the playoffs if you're going to get killed in the first round. 8 teams are knocked out in the first round. There's only 8 to 10 teams that truly believe they have a shot. That means 20 to 22 teams should be shooting for the top pick instead of the useless playoffs. I'll add Vegas in the numbers once they are actually competing for the top 8 to 10 or bottom 1. Don't you think that would be an exciting league to watch? I think that depends if you have a team that's on the rise or not. The Canucks are not a team on the rise yet, they're a team just doing everything they can not to sink too far away from the playoff bubble. They're a team that is lacking talent and are scratching and clawing to just make the playoffs when it is painfully clear they'd be just a small first round speedbump if they got there. For them, yes, the playoffs would be mostly useless because next year they'd probably be no better for it and quite possibly be in a similar position to what they are now. For other teams like Toronto and Edmonton for example, it probably would be beneficial to make the playoffs because they already have so much top end talent in place and they look like they're only going to get better. The Canucks dont look like this yet and they might even have to get worse before they can start to rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 23 minutes ago, Baggins said: Teams have done it. Pittsburgh (Lemeuix) and Ottawa (Daigle) were obvious ones. But to me tanking is management making moves to ensure they have a weak team from the beginning of the season. Thus setting the team up to have a losing season. I have no problem with teams out of the playoff picture selling off pending ufa's to playoff teams. I do have a problem with teams intentionally weakening their team to become a bottom feeder from the get go. I wouldn't pay a cent to a team I know was set up to have a losing season. Most recently Buffalo and Toronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Let's build on your conviction. If a team, like Vancouver, this season or last, were to *not wait for the TDL to strategically sell off expiring assets for picks and prospects, and intentionally, temporarily "weaken" the the roster, with the goal of creating internal competition and opportunities, like Megna, for instance, to enjoy, would you not embrace that as much as the tankers? To me, the only thing stopping this from looking like a rebuild is the roster packed full of assets in full decline, eliminating that competition. Instead, there is only room for a few and they certainly aren't the traded assets that one could at least enjoy losing with. Instead, we watch vets occupy key minutes and career plugs, not building blocks, as this thing coats to full stop. What would be the difference? Intent. Had they done what the tank crowd wanted from day 1 - clearing out all the vets and not signing quality ufa's I would not only not given them a penny I wouldn't have even bothered watching the games on TV. We would have been a team of Horvat and a bunch of AHL scrubs and unwanted ufa's. We certainly would have finished last in the league and teams would have been completely embarassed to lose to us. As I've said, I have no problem with selling pending ufa's at the deadline when out of the playoffs. I have no problem with hockey trades to get younger. I do have a problem with selling everybody off for picks/prospects when there's nothing there to replace the players moved. To me, a GM's job is to ice the best team possible year in and year out to try and compete for the playoffs. Intentionally setting your team up to lose is for losers. As a fan of the game I can't get behind that. Why would I spend my hard earned money on a team set up to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickyoursedin Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 4 hours ago, Westcoasting said: What is tanking? Isn't it losing intentionally? Who has ever done this? Is it trading away assets to gain younger players or prospects and/or draft picks... every team tanks if that is the case. Exactly I'm tired of fans crying over the tanking concept! its a poorly chosen word because none of us are advocating the team bench our best players and put their sticks down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Baggins said: Had they done what the tank crowd wanted from day 1 - clearing out all the vets and not signing quality ufa's I would not only not given them a penny I wouldn't have even bothered watching the games on TV. We would have been a team of Horvat and a bunch of AHL scrubs and unwanted ufa's. We certainly would have finished last in the league and teams would have been completely embarassed to lose to us. Interesting. So are you saying that by "clearing out the vets", which I assume you mean by trade, you think they'be 30th place, rather than 25th? This is to say that you imagine that these hypothetical trades would have only brought back scrubs and no decent prospects to watch play? That's a tad dramatic. And really, what's the difference between 5 spots in the draft, respect wise, if you're progressing with anew brand, not to mention, the chance to ice an Austin or Laine. Sounds like you have a rather pessimistic view of the "tank nation" when it comes to trade returns. Can't all be picks. I'd guess that there'd be a nice balance of young prospects/projects that came in packages of picks for the Edlers and a Sedins, to name a few sexy targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Just now, 189lb enforcers? said: Interesting. So are you saying that by "clearing out the vets", which I assume you mean by trade, you think they'be 30th place, rather than 25th? This is to say that you imagine that these hypothetical trades would have only brought back scrubs and no decent prospects to watch play? That's a tad dramatic. And really, what's the difference between 5 spots in the draft, respect wise, if you're progressing with anew brand, not to mention, the chance to ice an Austin or Laine. Sounds like you have a rather pessimistic view of the "tank nation" when it comes to trade returns. Can't all be picks. I'd guess that there'd be a nice balance of young prospects/projects that came in packages of picks for the Edlers and a Sedins, to name a few sexy targets. Are we that far out of a platyoff spot? We've been in the mix all season. I can get behind that regardless of where we finish. I've enjoyed the games this season. No team is going to trade elite prospects for aging players in "full decline". Your own words there. The primary assets would be middling picks and middling prospects that may not even be NHL ready. Teams in line for high picks won't be trading them for players in "full decline". Meaning filling the roster with AHL and UFA scrubs. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 40 minutes ago, Baggins said: Had they done what the tank crowd wanted from day 1 You might be watching McDavid, Matthews or........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I think Benning and Linden have done a wonderful job of tanking yet giving the fans something to come and watch at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, appleboy said: You might be watching McDavid, Matthews or........ With career ahl'ers and unwanted ufa's. Whoopy! Some say we're wasting Bo's time. Look how Edmonton wallowed away with top picks when there was nothing to go with them. Both Edmonton and Toronto had solid prospect pools built up and veteran youth on the team when they got McD and Matty. We were starting from nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, Baggins said: With career ahl'ers and unwanted ufa's. Whoopy! Some say we're wasting Bo's time. Look how Edmonton wallowed away with top picks when there was nothing to go with them. Both Edmonton and Toronto had solid prospect pools built up and veteran youth on the team when they got McD and Matty. We were starting from nothing. Now you are just being silly and ignoring some of the progress that has been made. Like our defensive prospects. A few years will settle this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Baggins said: With career ahl'ers and unwanted ufa's. Whoopy! Some say we're wasting Bo's time. Look how Edmonton wallowed away with top picks when there was nothing to go with them. Both Edmonton and Toronto had solid prospect pools built up and veteran youth on the team when they got McD and Matty. We were starting from nothing. Any different from having Megna and Chaput? Those career AHLers? You could have gone a rebuild route and still kept the vets, not all rebuilds are scorched earth tear downs. This team as it was constructed to be 'competitive', was 3 losses away from 30th last season. In a 'rebuild' scenario. We would still have the Sedins/Edler/Burrows/Hansen/Tanev for that veteran presence, it's hardly letting our prospects hang out to dry and starting with 'nothing'. Unless you're of the opinion our vets can't even shelter young players in a rebuild, and if so, then they have even LESS of a reason to be even trying for playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Baggins said: Teams have done it. Pittsburgh (Lemeuix) and Ottawa (Daigle) were obvious ones. But to me tanking is management making moves to ensure they have a weak team from the beginning of the season. Thus setting the team up to have a losing season. I have no problem with teams out of the playoff picture selling off pending ufa's to playoff teams. I do have a problem with teams intentionally weakening their team to become a bottom feeder from the get go. I wouldn't pay a cent to a team I know was set up to have a losing season. Did you pay a cent this year? Because everyone outside the CDC bubble predicted the Canucks were set up to have a losing season. Though it wasn't on purpose, it was through ineptitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 4 hours ago, messier's_elbow said: Most recently Buffalo and Toronto. They haven't taken much flak for tanking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 3 hours ago, appleboy said: Now you are just being silly and ignoring some of the progress that has been made. Like our defensive prospects. A few years will settle this. Wait now, What did we have when Benning took over? The tankers wanted the house cleaned then. You know, when we had no prospect pool. I like the way Benning has taken care of the rebuild. We have young D with more on the way and some forwards on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 2 hours ago, CanadianRugby said: Did you pay a cent this year? Because everyone outside the CDC bubble predicted the Canucks were set up to have a losing season. Though it wasn't on purpose, it was through ineptitude. I've been to 4 games this year and will likely be going to one more. How about you? I could care less about predictions. We were predicted to be a bottom feeder two years ago and had a 100 point season and made the playoffs. AV's first season we were also predicted to be a bottom feeder and made the playoffs. Predictions are a guessing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 11 hours ago, stuman491 said: Down Goes Brown wrote about the different ways the NHL could fix their draft lottery system. My personal favourite which will eliminate the 20 teams that should be competing for 1st overall is the Wheel Method. Every team drafts in the same order all the time. In other words every team is gets the 1st overall pick every 30 years. A top 6 pick every 5 years and a top twelve every 4 years. Its a good idea and eliminates any need for tanking. Yes that is exactly the idea that should be brought forward. Or at least something similar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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