terrible.dee Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 7 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said: The reality is that in today's game you need the "tough" guys that can also skate, shoot, pass, defend, hit and score. The tough guys that can play. Those players are relatively few and far between. I would guess that there are probably 15-20 players like that in the NHL and three of them play on Edmonton. Fighting isn't as big a part in the playoffs as it is in the regular season so I think the need for someone who can fight is debatable. Although I think there is value of the threat being there. In the playoffs though, it is all about the end result - the score over 7 games. A degree of "heaviness" can certainly wear your opposition down over a 7 game series if used properly in the game plan but having a john scott out there for 6 mins/night isn't going to help you win a series. Yes, everyone agrees on that, the toughness has got to come from regular players, but Hockey is all about momentum and as so many teams know a well timed fight by a regular roster player can sway the momentum, and I think you will start seeing some fight in the playoffs starting today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on the cycle Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 ooh....oooohhhh.... it's toughness that's the problem......of course, silly me I thought it was goal scoring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Standing_Tall#37 Posted April 16, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted April 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, on the cycle said: ooh....oooohhhh.... it's toughness that's the problem......of course, silly me I thought it was goal scoring. Shows that you should go back and learn more about hockey. If you'd ever played rep or jrs, you would have known. So I don't blame you that you either didn't know or weren't paying attention. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on the cycle Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Just now, Standing_Tall#37 said: Shows that you should go back and learn more about hockey. If you'd ever played rep or jrs, you would have known. So I don't blame you that you either didn't know or weren't paying attention. haha yup my bad. Cause 2010-2011 was just awful with all that goal scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabychStache Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) When Bo fought Nurse something changed. Its his team now, the era of turning the other cheek is over. Hutton knows it, the others will too next season. The defense will be chalk full of toughness next year. The bottom 6 needs a SOB to play wing for Gaunce. I hope JB finds one in free agency. The top 6 will be much tougher if the Canucks win the lotto and land Patrick. A 1-2 punch of Horvat and Patrick will be formidable. In a perfect world I'd love this: Baer-Horvat-Boeser Erikson-Patrick-Sutter Sedins-Goldobin (PP1 + o zone draws) Mean SOB-Gaunce-Hungry Speedy Forechecker (think early Burrows) that lineup would be difficult to line match. Edited April 16, 2017 by BabychStache 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, on the cycle said: haha yup my bad. Cause 2010-2011 was just awful with all that goal scoring. Haha yea... our cup looks really great too. That goal scoring looks fantastic in hindsight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 1 hour ago, on the cycle said: haha yup my bad. Cause 2010-2011 was just awful with all that goal scoring. Oh you mean the Finals where we were shutout twice and were literally "beat up" by the opposition? Can you say "BALANCE"? I knew you could. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Man I liked Biega's forecheck -- something like 2 or 3 great hits per game. He was a Kenin's type wrecking ball we need on the 4th line. I think he has like speed and timing and a bit of nastiness in there. Plus a bonus was being an emergency replacement on D which he did do one game. Chaput/Megna/Skille/Cramarossa/Gaunce/Molino/Shore and Sutter, none of them could hit like Biega. (LaBate hit some but did fight so he's a good gritty 4th) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) On 3/29/2017 at 9:49 PM, billabong said: No we need grit on in our forward group. virtanen is the guy to bring that physical play so he's a big part of that and I'll keep plugging this...peluso! hes 27 6 foot 3 235 pounds of enforcer.UFA this summer The guy is a heavy weight. We need that. Need a guy to protect the kids. Guddy can't do it all him self and dorsett just physically can't go toe to toe with the bigger guys Size and toughness, well those are attributes this pacifist management group have gotten rid of by the score to attain other team's "Janes". Sure you don't necessarily need truculence to be a goal scorer and this team needs scorers even Horvat lacks a bit in that department, not much of a fighter, not much of a hitter but he can handle the boards, has enough speed and scoring panache to be iffy for a top line role. But all the trades......sub 6' and under 190 lbs? All the trades this group of mismanagement personnel have ensured that Virtanen is guaranteed a spot regardless of him warranting it, he gets it because he is over 6', over 200 lbs and has some speed. Maybe with a coach like Tort's, who built a line for Kassian to be successful on, Jake can at least not be a liability. Forget about Dorsett as an enforcer, IF he plays again, he likely won't be duking it up much after having surgery on his neck vertebrae. Guddy was never that much of an enforcer and do you really want a dman sitting in the penalty box as much as will be necessary with all these "Janes" needing protection? You mention Peluso as the targeted UFA, your right there, but the team needs two forwards. Maybe Pedan as well. If anyone is watching the playoffs it is very evident that the whistles have disappeared, now for small North American kids they understand and will fight to get the cup but for a lot of young Euro's the world cup, Olympics and representing their country is more important, although that trend is changing but could you see concussion prone Sven, Dahlen, Goldoblin, ....how would this group, as it stands, do in the playoffs? Much like the last time? Worse? There ARE two different seasons and the playoffs are a different beast altogether. Edited April 16, 2017 by TheGuardian_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on the cycle Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 43 minutes ago, EdgarM said: Oh you mean the Finals where we were shutout twice and were literally "beat up" by the opposition? Can you say "BALANCE"? I knew you could. Remember when we drafted Virtanen cause of "toughness" instead of Ehlers or Nylander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 20 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: Size and toughness, well those are attributes this pacifist management group have gotten rid of by the score to attain other team's "Janes". Sure you don't necessarily need truculence to be a goal scorer and this team needs scorers even Horvat lacks a bit in that department, not much of a fighter, not much of a hitter but he can handle the boards, has enough speed and scoring panache to be iffy for a top line role. But all the trades......sub 6' and under 190 lbs? All the trades this group of mismanagement personnel have ensured that Virtanen is guaranteed a spot regardless of him warranting it, he gets it because he is over 6', over 200 lbs and has some speed. Maybe with a coach like Tort's, who built a line for Kassian to be successful on, Jake can at least not be a liability. Forget about Dorsett as an enforcer, IF he plays again, he likely won't be duking it up much after having surgery on his neck vertebrae. Guddy was never that much of an enforcer and do you really want a dman sitting in the penalty box as much as will be necessary with all these "Janes" needing protection? You mention Peluso as the targeted UFA, your right there, but the team needs two forwards. Maybe Pedan as well. If anyone is watching the playoffs it is very evident that the whistles have disappeared, now for small North American kids they understand and will fight to get the cup but for a lot of young Euro's the world cup, Olympics and representing their country is more important, although that trend is changing but could you see concussion prone Sven, Dahlen, Goldoblin, ....how would this group, as it stands, do in the playoffs? Much like the last time? Worse? There ARE two different seasons and the playoffs are a different beast altogether. Though I have concerns about the lack of size and push back on the Canucks, I'd say Kapanen and Nylander have been the best Leafs and Backstrom has been, far and away, the best Capital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, on the cycle said: Remember when we drafted Virtanen cause of "toughness" instead of Ehlers or Nylander. Oh that's weak. Remember when we could have picked up Lucic instead of Ericksson? Coulda , Shoulda , Woulda..................Wait until those players fully develop and make that statement again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riffraff Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, stawns said: Though I have concerns about the lack of size and push back on the Canucks, I'd say Kapanen and Nylander have been the best Leafs and Backstrom has been, far and away, the best Capital. That series is totally different , so far, than any western series. Way less blatantly physical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, stawns said: Though I have concerns about the lack of size and push back on the Canucks, I'd say Kapanen and Nylander have been the best Leafs and Backstrom has been, far and away, the best Capital. Its all about balance and those teams have toughness to balance out with the finesse players. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrago Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 On 2017-03-30 at 2:03 AM, Camel Toe Drag said: Team toughness comes with swagger which comes from a winning environment. If you look at the current dynasties like Pitt and Chi they don't have a lot of fighters or big bodies but they have developed a history of winning and high compete level. Guys that are willing to stand up for the success of their team. You don't need to have designated tough guys or hired goons to win games. Atleast not anymore. You play hard in between the whistles and carry yourself with a certain confidence. That is hard to teach but you can see it in the Crosby's and Toew's. It's about believing in winning and doing whatever it takes. Our young core will have to learn that, and it might take a couple years of getting bullied and being the new kids on the block. The star players that have the passion to win usually have the same passion to pushback if their opponents tempt them. Examples: Benn, Perry, Iginlia, Marchand, Bergeron, Burns, Malkin, Carter, Kesler, Toews, Koivu... My point being that teams that have players with pushback usually stem from their star players and core. They set the tone and the culture for their team. It takes time and experience to earn this swagger and pushback. Having Cram, Try, Gud, and Labate is plenty at this point. I think the problem in Vancouver is our youth is learning from the Sedin's who are the masters of turning the other cheek. I'm not a Sedin hater by any means but I do think a lot of the teams problems are tide to there philosophy's and play style. I really think now that they can't outscore there bad habits and poor defense the sooner they retire the better it will be for the future of this team. I say this with plenty of respect for them as I fully appreciate there past accomplishments. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino#29 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 On 3/30/2017 at 8:45 AM, Boudrias said: It is laughable the way fans equate toughness with fisticuffs. A consistent physical team who finish checks, are hard on the puck, regularly gain body position and, yes, who will defend their team mates with fighting if required is my idea my idea of a tough team. Finesse hockey can be intimidating as well if executed. It forces teams to change their style or game plan to counter. Boston did that in 2011 and Van could not. who plays with finesse,finishes their checks and sticks up for their teammates?megna?it's laughable that some fans think its ok for stecher to fight matt martin because you know,toughness.you think boston played finesse hockey?i'm convinced 50% of cdc are anti-canuck fans,our fans are the worst apparently because there's not enough team sweaters with megna's name on it in the stands.they only get 18,000 finishing close to last 3 out of the last 4 years and they can't even gets fans to go in most U.S. markets when the team is leading the division.but those 13;000 fans that only go because its $10 a ticket thanks to us are far better than us because they'd never riot.they'd never even make a minor disturbance about it,they don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 17 hours ago, on the cycle said: ooh....oooohhhh.... it's toughness that's the problem......of course, silly me I thought it was goal scoring. There both a problem. We need both toughness and goal scoring to be a successful team. You can score a lot of goals but you will get wrecked by physical teams because they will go after your goal scorers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 On 4/16/2017 at 11:08 AM, on the cycle said: Remember when we drafted Virtanen cause of "toughness" instead of Ehlers or Nylander. After multiple shoulder injuries and surgery I doubt he is a long term answer in either fighting or big hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) On 4/16/2017 at 0:13 PM, gino#29 said: in most U.S. markets when the team is leading the division.but those 13;000 fans that only go because its $10 a ticket thanks to us $10.00? Are you kidding? Try FREE, the club buys enough tickets to earn the NHL "handout" and give them away as a marketing incentive. Florida had free tickets if you had a Florida drivers licence, Arizona not only gave them away to the university, they provided transportation. Nashville ditto. Not all this year but it is not uncommon. Edited April 18, 2017 by TheGuardian_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Shotgun Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Toughness and the Canucks is an oxymoron. Euro softness is the flavour of the day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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